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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" 3
#23565135 - 08/22/16 06:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let me give you an example of the dreaded "socialist healthcare" which you Americans fear so much.
Lets go.
Some of you may know, I'm in a pickle with my health. I have eczema on my ankles and for a myriad of reasons, in particularly heart medication interaction, I developed edema, a swelling of the lower legs. It itched like mad, I scratched, and where I scratched I broke out in ulcers, hard-healing open wounds.
We have universal health care in my country.
I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
Now comes it.
I went to my doctor, no charge. The doctor prescribed home care. No charge. Every single day of the week for several weeks I have a nurse coming to my house who checks up on my compression bandages and usually rewinds them, no charge, and three times a week i receive wound care along with the rewinding. No charge. They are using bandages, pads, desinfectants, linen sleeves etc etc like nobodies business. No charge. I have a phone # I can call 24 hours a day for questions or to rush a nurse to me to rewind those bandages. No Charge. If it should turn out that I will be needing supportive stockings, custom made to the exact measurements of my legs, no charge.
Exactly whats so bad about this system?
Everybody pays the same sum. We're all in this together.
You Americans would be bankrupted or severely economically neutered by the care I am receiving.
The same care.
Whats so bad about this? I bet you Americans pay $150 a month for insurance too and still get screwed on every contingency.
That you have no universal health care is a barbarism. Here in Holland we take care of each other.
Isn't that what being human is about, helping one another?
You guys are more afraid for the bill than for the disease itself.
Join the Developed Nations and adopt universal healthcare
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante] 5
#23565137 - 08/22/16 06:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Okay, I'll get right on that.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565140 - 08/22/16 06:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Some of you may know, I'm in a pickle with my health. I have eczema on my ankles and for a myriad of reasons, in particularly heart medication interaction, I developed edema, a swelling of the lower legs. It itched like mad, I scratched, and where I scratched I broke out in ulcers, hard-healing open wounds.
We have universal health care in my country.
I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
Now comes it.
I went to my doctor, no charge. The doctor prescribed home care. No charge. Every single day of the week for several weeks I have a nurse coming to my house who checks up on my compression bandages and usually rewinds them, no charge, and three times a week i receive wound care along with the rewinding. No charge. They are using bandages, pads, desinfectants, linen sleeves etc etc like nobodies business. No charge. If it should turn out that I will be needing supportive stockings, custom made to the exact measurements of my legs, no charge.
Exactly whats so bad about this system?
Everybody pays the same sum. We're all in this together.
You Americans would be bankrupted or severely economically neutered by the care I am receiving.
The same care.
Whats so bad about this? I bet you Americans pay $150 a month for insurance too and still get screwed on every contingency.
That you have no universal health care is a barbarism. Here in Holland we take care of each other.
Isn't that what being human is about, helping one another?
You guys are more afraid for the bill than for the disease itself.
Join the Developed Nations and adopt universal healthcare 
I like socialized healthcare personally. But, I don't think the healthcare should be completely free. The reason for this is because some countries like Canada have 6 month waiting periods, because you have so many people going to the doctor for even minor things such as a cold or a headache.
So, the doctor's visit should still cost money, but not much. It should be like $10 for a visit, not the $200 it would cost out-of-pocket like with an American doctor.
This way people don't see the doctor for unnecessary things they don't need, and it shortens the line.
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Citizen X
Call me Pepper,,

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Posts: 7,787
Loc: Djibouti
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565141 - 08/22/16 06:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
Rate me here
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


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Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante] 3
#23565142 - 08/22/16 06:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not sure why you have to be so obnoxious and confrontational in your tone, as the decision for the structuring of healthcare in the country is hardly a choice that we have much control over at an individual level. I'd say it's a bit like kicking a man while he's down, but your legs aren't sounding so hot.
I would wager that a significant portion of the people in my area, a predominately low income community in a notoriously poor state, would be overjoyed to have easier access to preventative care, intensive care, and medicine. As it stands, profit margins interfere and will continue to interfere with any chance of meaningful changes being made to the structuring of American healthcare.
Pointing your sarcasm at a group that consists largely of those people is both misplaced and arrogant. We're not all as thrilled with the quality of living as a very vocal minority would have you believe.
Snide remarks aside, I do hope you're getting better. I was just thinking about you last night and meant to ask.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565143 - 08/22/16 06:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Solidarity comrade!
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G] 1
#23565144 - 08/22/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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They should require referrals. I can go to a neurosurgeon for a headache under obamacare.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crazy_Horse]
#23565146 - 08/22/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: They should require referrals. I can go to a neurosurgeon for a headache under obamacare.
A lot of that is determined at the state level. In Oregon, visiting a specialist required at least one recommendation from a GP. In Louisiana you can visit a specialist so long as you can cover your copayment.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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I got everything basically for free when I was an unemployed bum. All I paid was $3 for scripts. Now that I work full time I get screwed because I have a shitty HMO that barely covers anything.
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Cosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS



Registered: 11/16/12
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: moonrockmushy] 1
#23565187 - 08/22/16 07:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not an American that fears "socialist healthcare" just because the few here are so loud with their opinions doesn't mean they speak for all of us. They just can't help but vent their frustrations, thats not short of exclamatory unfortunately. They post so much that they set the tone in this forum, which I can't stand honestly. So I guess I should post more 
I'm in agreement that we should have some sort of model where people shouldn't be in ridiculous amounts of debt to get medical care. I've seen too many loved ones suffer just because of inadequate care due to their insurance plans being so dodgy and limiting. Universal healthcare should be a right in our society by now. Its inhumane to not have such a system in any first world nation, imo. The worst part is this affects minorities the most and the lower classes such as the working class and the poor, especially the mentally ill and my community (lgbtq) just as much since we're in a system that wasn't originally meant to accommodate us. This ranges across the board from sex education to fearing getting medical care. This issue also goes for drug users, being judged and discriminated against in the medical industry for ridiculous reasons. People that live on the fringes of society have the odds against them, which shouldn't be the case when it comes to their health.
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
#23565206 - 08/22/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Can anyone guesstimate how much the care I'm receiving would cost in the US?
I'm not being sarcastic, I am saddened by the horrid situation America has gotten itself into and hope to shake people awake regarding this topic, cause quite often in the Pub and the Politics forum universal healthcare is being attacked as if its a communist conspiracy to destroy America while the opposite is true.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565214 - 08/22/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hard to say off the top of my head without knowing exact medications you're prescribed and what sort of specialists you've seen, but ballpark it around $400 for a specialist's visit. Home healthcare nursing can run into the hundreds or low thousands on a weekly basis.
Medications are where it gets tricky, as they can be outrageously expensive without insurance and so without knowing anything specific it's really impossible to say. They could be $5 for your entire prescription or $250 or $2000.
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante] 5
#23565219 - 08/22/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Asante, there's only 2 reasons I can think of for you to have worded your post the way you have. 1) either you only have the most basic, perfunctory understanding of the American ideological landscape and you're being willfully ignorant, OR 2) you're being purposely antagonistic. I suspect it's a combination of the two. Neither is a good look, especially for the "enlightened" individual that you claim to be.
Anyway, good luck with your legs. Maybe in the future you can use some of that free healthcare for preventative treatment so your situation doesn't deteriorate to where you're at now. Most eczema is treatable, with a bit of diligence.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565235 - 08/22/16 07:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Can anyone guesstimate how much the care I'm receiving would cost in the US?
I'm not being sarcastic, I am saddened by the horrid situation America has gotten itself into and hope to shake people awake regarding this topic, cause quite often in the Pub and the Politics forum universal healthcare is being attacked as if its a communist conspiracy to destroy America while the opposite is true.
If you are disabled or over 65 or low-income, your healthcare would first of all be free, since you would be enrolled under Medicare.
$400 for a specialist visit is only what you would pay if you were totally uninsured and paying out of pocket. However, almost nobody these days is uninsured anymore, especially after Obamacare.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G] 1
#23565252 - 08/22/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: almost nobody these days is uninsured anymore, especially after Obamacare.
Patently false, as low-income individuals and households still sit at a 22% rate of uninsurance as of 2015 Q1. Blacks and Hispanics have an uninsurance rate of twice and 3.9x respectively versus whites (13.6% and 30.4%).
I may be a dumb shitposting troll, but that's hardly "nobody".
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565276 - 08/22/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Can anyone guesstimate how much the care I'm receiving would cost in the US?
I'm not being sarcastic, I am saddened by the horrid situation America has gotten itself into and hope to shake people awake regarding this topic, cause quite often in the Pub and the Politics forum universal healthcare is being attacked as if its a communist conspiracy to destroy America while the opposite is true.
Taxes are paying for your care. That isn't free.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crazy_Horse]
#23565339 - 08/22/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not constitutiona The government does everything inefficienty, because therr is no incentive not to, anyway.
It still isnt constitutional. the averge person, because the average person abuses themselves for sixty or seventy years, then falls apart thinking it's just the natural way of living
I dont want to pay for that
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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To which of the seven articles or twenty seven amendments does accessible healthcare stand in opposition? I assume you're well versed in the nuances of constitutional interpretation and can quickly provide us a summary.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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It isnt even mentioned. It woud be delegated to the states. They could set up healthcare. The government already does too much it isnt supposed to do.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crazy_Horse]
#23565360 - 08/22/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have always been in favor of universal health care for the US, I also think many Americans are as well.
Obama Care isn't socialist healthcare, it's just another step backwards.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Loc: TURNT UP!
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oh ok
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Loc: Mitten
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I just dont think healthy people should have to pay for smokers, soda drinkers, and other people who do what they know will harm them despite it being common knowledge.
put down the sugar and cigs
I probably think more people smoke then that do, because where I live it seems like most people smoke. I think its down to like, 20% of millenials or something
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Quote:
something super extreme said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: almost nobody these days is uninsured anymore, especially after Obamacare.
Patently false, as low-income individuals and households still sit at a 22% rate of uninsurance as of 2015 Q1. Blacks and Hispanics have an uninsurance rate of twice and 3.9x respectively versus whites (13.6% and 30.4%).
I may be a dumb shitposting troll, but that's hardly "nobody".
I just checked and it said uninsured rates are 11.9% in quarter 1 of 2015. In 2016, it was 11%. Where are you getting your stats from?
So I guess these people prefer to pay the fine instead of being insured?
I'm willing to bet that the percentage of uninsured people are mostly young college students. Either that, or they are young and healthy people making roughly $20-$30K a year, and they just don't want to or can't afford the insurance costs. Because if they were very low-income or unemployed, they would be eligible for state healthcare insurance programs.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23565436 - 08/22/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Gallup via PPACA. The 22% is exclusively households and individuals making less than 36,000 per year; hence why I specificied low income. Considering median wage in Louisiana is only 41,000... State assistance is hit or miss. In Louisiana to qualify for healthcare assistance you must have minor dependents in your home or be a pregnant woman.
No matter how you approach it, uninsurance is still quite substantial and cost-effective alternatives for individuals are not as available as you're making it seem.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crazy_Horse]
#23565484 - 08/22/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:
Asante said: Can anyone guesstimate how much the care I'm receiving would cost in the US?
I'm not being sarcastic, I am saddened by the horrid situation America has gotten itself into and hope to shake people awake regarding this topic, cause quite often in the Pub and the Politics forum universal healthcare is being attacked as if its a communist conspiracy to destroy America while the opposite is true.
Taxes are paying for your care. That isn't free.
Did you miss the part where I said that every citizen of my country, myself included, pay $2222 a year for our healthcare.
I never said it was free, It costs an arm and a leg. But its paid for by all of us and thats why the care is affordable.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565491 - 08/22/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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What happens when $2222 per person doesn't cover the bill?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crazy_Horse]
#23565495 - 08/22/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It does. When it doesn't, either the Own Risk premium gets raised or the monthly sum.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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qman
Stranger

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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565497 - 08/22/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:
Asante said: Can anyone guesstimate how much the care I'm receiving would cost in the US?
I'm not being sarcastic, I am saddened by the horrid situation America has gotten itself into and hope to shake people awake regarding this topic, cause quite often in the Pub and the Politics forum universal healthcare is being attacked as if its a communist conspiracy to destroy America while the opposite is true.
Taxes are paying for your care. That isn't free.
Did you miss the part where I said that every citizen of my country, myself included, pay $2222 a year for our healthcare.
I never said it was free, It costs an arm and a leg. But its paid for by all of us and thats why the care is affordable.
It's also affordable because your country isn't littered with dirty lawyers and malpractice insurance, it's also affordable because you don't torture your elderly and instead practice medicine based on ethics, it's also affordable because you don't have demographics that abuse the hell out of anything that's almost free.
Edited by qman (08/22/16 10:04 PM)
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23565696 - 08/22/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Socialized medicine means more government in my life. I want less government, not more. Does it raise taxes in any way? Then I'm categorically against it, whatever "it" is, period.
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: qman]
#23565706 - 08/22/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can't work without health insuance here.
If you make more than 450 in a month, your employer pays most of it.
Otherwise it's 150/160 a month.
Doc visits covered, operations covered.
Non-superficial dental work covered.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: LobsterSauce]
#23565918 - 08/22/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have the medicaid and my co pay was 2.00 last time I went to the doc. I got a few shots for my nursing course and a full health physical. The dentist cost me about 80.00 for a major periodontal scraping and teeth cleaning. I made about 47 thousand last year and brought home 36. Single (my mate lives with, but I am the main lease holder), no kids, no pets. NO cc debt, no car payment, actually I am in a really good place now that I think about it! And my mate just added me to his insurance which is killer because he works for an insurance company!
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: qman]
#23565933 - 08/22/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I have always been in favor of universal health care for the US, I also think many Americans are as well.
Obama Care isn't socialist healthcare, it's just another step backwards.
Wrong, Obama was designed to fail in order to push us to single payer
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Cosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS



Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
qman said: I have always been in favor of universal health care for the US, I also think many Americans are as well.
Obama Care isn't socialist healthcare, it's just another step backwards.
Wrong, Obama was designed to fail in order to push us to single payer
wrong
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
qman said: I have always been in favor of universal health care for the US, I also think many Americans are as well.
Obama Care isn't socialist healthcare, it's just another step backwards.
Wrong, Obama was designed to fail in order to push us to single payer
I disagree with that speculative theory used by many conservatives, the health care corporate lobbyists didn't invest billions of dollars to end up in a non-profit single payer health care system.
Most Republican politicians labeled the ACA as "socialist healthcare", that's a disingenuous description of what the ACA really is, the Republicans didn't make the correct argument because they were bought and paid for by the same corporate sponsors.
The health care stocks are NOT pricing in any type of single payer health care system.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: qman]
#23566250 - 08/22/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow I think this is the first time I've agreed with you on something qman. It's just too bad we're stuck in a two party system with both parties suckling off the same tit.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23566365 - 08/22/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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All I can say is I am profoundly grateful for the free healthcare my wife and I have access to in Canada, and we wouldn't consider living somewhere without such socialized medicine .
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Moonshoe]
#23566518 - 08/22/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im moving to holland to live with Asante.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Moonshoe]
#23566544 - 08/22/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: All I can say is I am profoundly grateful for the free healthcare my wife and I have access to in Canada, and we wouldn't consider living somewhere without such socialized medicine .
Yeah, free shit is nice
The health insurance companies supported it because they they thought it was gonna be a windfall for them. An insurance program that forces people to buy their product, how could they not?
Democrats are playing the long game, these insurance execs don't give a shit what's gonna happen 10, 15, or 20 years from now, they KNOW they'll already be retired and filthy rich. Democrats, liberals, progressives, love to use INCREMENTALISM to push their agenda, it's a proven winning strategy.
Other health sectors, pharmaceuticals, hospitals and doctors, even with single payer, would still be getting rich.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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you still are under the impression that the right-wing are angels who never use incrementalism to push an agenda that isn't fitting for the American people...like Iraq, for example.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566569 - 08/22/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you still are under the impression that the right-wing are angels who never use incrementalism to push an agenda that isn't fitting for the American people...like Iraq, for example.
Are you trying to derail the thread? Like usual...
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: you still are under the impression that the right-wing are angels who never use incrementalism to push an agenda that isn't fitting for the American people...like Iraq, for example.
Are you trying to derail the thread? Like usual...
no, i'm literally doing what i always do. addressing the latest relevant post in the thread to either make a point, or point out someone's bullshit; in this case, and as usual, it's your's.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566573 - 08/22/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Right, instead of addressing the issue being discussed you attack and derail, no wonder nobody reads your drivel
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akira_akuma
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what? attack? lol. derail? you're derailing by simply feigning daftness.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante] 1
#23566601 - 08/22/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
how about telling us what the actual cost is, in order for you to have the discounted health care which according to your $2222 number was $185/month then a sum has to come out of taxes, now let's assume you work, what percentage of your pay goes to cover that healthcare
now check this out, I used to pay $327/ month in insurance, I know, it seems like a lot but that covered 3 people on a premium policy through my employer, that came out to 109/month per person and only having to pay a $20 co-pay each time I actually went to a doctor, I did that twice
my total annual pay out for insurance was just under $4000 to cover 3 people, under your netherlander policy it seems it would be $6666 for the same coverage but now everyone on the planet feels the need to add their two cents american politics and the people in the US get screwed. because under obamacare my insurance would cost me $12k/year so kindly fuck off with your socializerd horse shit since I can no longer afford health insurance thanks to you socialist fucks
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23566621 - 08/22/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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tip of the iceberg syndrome: referring to the response of a problem as if it wasn't the response to a problem, but merely the problem.
the problem being that socialised medicine is a response to inequality, and the problem of inequality (manufactured or not) is the response to another problem, that of avarice, which (manufactured or not) is a response to another problem, which is the foundation of human endeavor is still on the "serving kings" paradigm.
point being: socialised medicine is a moral decision, and not an economic one; an economic decision would be more along the lines of actually either A: influencing the nation with one's own money, to help build infrastructure and provide jobs, and ordinate a response to high-tax rates; or B: continue to give the society the leg-up it needs so people can help stabilise it, because, frankly, unless someone is there to help, it won't do it itself.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566659 - 08/22/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: point being: socialised medicine is a moral decision, and not an economic one;
caca doodie poopie caca
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23566669 - 08/22/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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sure Pris, sure. ignore the breadth of my post, in order to mock the standpoint that busts a hole in your theory of American prosperity with "caca poopoo"
the people who CAN help grow a nation, they simply will not do so...they keep their business to themselves as much as possible. avarice rules the world and it's that avarice that consistently pushes people and governments towards socialism to begin with.
simple as that. there's the only solution to your problem.
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something super extreme
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566672 - 08/22/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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poo poo doodie balls
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akira_akuma
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this is a consistent and unfalisifiable effect of going balls deep.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566801 - 08/22/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: sure Pris, sure. ignore the breadth of my post, in order to mock the standpoint that busts a hole in your theory of American prosperity with "caca poopoo"
government intervention into medicine isnt a moral decision, there is nothing moral about government
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566820 - 08/22/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
the people who CAN help grow a nation, they simply will not do so...they keep their business to themselves as much as possible. avarice rules the world
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23566822 - 08/22/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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people govern themselves. something, funnily enough, as an American, you always seem to forget.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566845 - 08/22/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not allowed to govern myself
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23566885 - 08/22/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: people govern themselves. something, funnily enough, as an American, you always seem to forget.
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starfire_xes
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23567090 - 08/22/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Does Obamacare cover Butt-hurt?
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    [/url] [/url]
IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: starfire_xes]
#23567107 - 08/22/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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what butt-hurt?
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John Nada
Toujours Frais

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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Asante]
#23567301 - 08/22/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
I pay around $80/mo for healthcare and superior American doctors and my copay is double yours and I still pay less than you. Take that, Holland. Your Dutch doctor probably also has his practice in an apartment over a chocolate shop or something. Your quaint ideas about medicine are charming and you are a whimsical person.
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: John Nada]
#23567330 - 08/22/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23567545 - 08/22/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
something super extreme said: Gallup via PPACA. The 22% is exclusively households and individuals making less than 36,000 per year; hence why I specificied low income. Considering median wage in Louisiana is only 41,000... State assistance is hit or miss. In Louisiana to qualify for healthcare assistance you must have minor dependents in your home or be a pregnant woman.
No matter how you approach it, uninsurance is still quite substantial and cost-effective alternatives for individuals are not as available as you're making it seem.
Yeah that's true. I remember I was uninsured for several years while I was a student, and uninsured for quite some time after that.
The main problem is that young or uninsured people should at the very least be covered for hospital visits.
I think young, single people might be eligible for Medicare type programs, if they recently went to the hospital and have the bills to prove it. I think you can apply for these types of programs if you have been to the hospital in the past 3 months, and have the bill to prove you can't pay it. I'm not quite sure how it works or who exactly is eligible for it.
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23567565 - 08/22/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
Believe it or not socialist Cuba is also said to have excellent medicine. Quite many Cuban doctors lead conferences regarding their specialties.
A lot of people think American medicine is the best, but in fact quite many people travel back to their home countries to seek medical care for serious things.
The USA however, is publishing the most research. Probably our politics and allocation of grants have something to do with that.
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akira_akuma
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23567584 - 08/22/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
Believe it or not socialist Cuba is also said to have excellent medicine. Quite many Cuban doctors lead conferences regarding their specialties.
A lot of people think American medicine is the best, but in fact quite many people travel back to their home countries to seek medical care for serious things.
The USA however, is publishing the most research. Probably our politics and allocation of grants have something to do with that.
yes, accurate, Crystal. our medicine is Advanced in tech and research and development. an American doctorate is considered quite valuable. but that doesn't discount other doctorates from other, even socialist, medicine.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23568073 - 08/23/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been vocal about how shitty the system is right now several times in the past. All I can really say right now, is that it would be really nice to have access to doctors to treat what i have, therapy and all, medications for certain things. Life's not been great, and my situation is that of a self-perpetual cycle, with every bit feeding into the other.
the costs here are outrageous, and health insurance aside, there's just no reason why things should cost so much for anyone, period, whoever ends up paying the bill. what costs us thousands here costs hundreds or even less in other places. There's been a couple news articles lately of pharmaceutical companies jacking up the prices of medicines, while the same generic meds cost fractions in places like India.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568088 - 08/23/16 03:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
Believe it or not socialist Cuba is also said to have excellent medicine. Quite many Cuban doctors lead conferences regarding their specialties.
that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: 404]
#23568089 - 08/23/16 03:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's unbelievable, but the #1 reason Americans file bankruptcy is because of healthcare costs.
I actually attempted to get PEP, which is an HIV medication. (I don't have HIV, but this medication can also prevent people from getting HIV, which is why I thought it would be cool to have it.)
Turns out my insurance at the time covered it, and I was having premium PPO insurance, and even then it was still $300. $300 was a lot for me to invest in a medication when I didn't have any risk of getting HIV at the time, so I passed on it. I didn't really need it.
But I did some digging and some research, and it turns out this medication is not covered under Medicare or government insurance type of programs, and out of pocket this medication costs $2,000 a month.
So people who have HIV, who are already mostly low-income and uninsured to begin with, have to pay $2K a month out of pocket, just to have a medication just to keep themselves alive.
It's pretty crazy if you think about it. It's actually just better to die than to live in poverty like that for the rest of your life, with no way to climb out of it.
Then there is my childhood friend who got ovarian cancer when she was only 9 years old. She had to have chemotherapy and everything. Back before Obamacare passed a law about denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, her family's insurance company denied coverage for her cancer treatment.
Her family ended up paying millions of dollars out of pocket to treat her operations and hospital stays, and this completely bankrupted them. And bear in mind her family was loaded before--her father was a Jewish corporate attorney, making approximately $10 million a year.
My family member works at a pharmacy. She says that she periodically has gotten cancer patients coming in paying $50,000 for brand-name cancer medications and shit like that.
Something has to be done about price-hiking medications and medical costs. This has to be made illegal. There's no reason a surgeon should be making $100 million a year. Hell, I've even heard of dentists--DENTISTS--making $10 million a year.
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568090 - 08/23/16 03:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568096 - 08/23/16 03:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
did he tell you that those cuban doctors had left cuba?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/americas/us-and-cuba-at-odds-over-exodus-of-the-islands-doctors.html?_r=0
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568101 - 08/23/16 03:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
did he tell you that those cuban doctors had left cuba?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/americas/us-and-cuba-at-odds-over-exodus-of-the-islands-doctors.html?_r=0
No? He said he sometimes flew to Cuba to attend the conferences with other staff.
Your own link you sourced linked to this article stating: "Americans May See Appeal of Medical Tourism in Cuba"
With the following quote in the article
Quote:
Cuba made health care a priority after its 1959 revolution, and it has earned a reputation for providing good, mostly free care to its people. Thousands of Cuban doctors also work abroad, in Venezuela, Brazil and other developing countries, in an exchange that provides the government of President Raúl Castro with hard currency or goods, such as oil, in return.
David McBain, 47, a Toronto landscaper who fractured his spine in a car accident, went to Cuba three times last year for extensive physical therapy.
“The physiotherapists and the doctors are extremely knowledgeable and well trained in Cuba, and you just can’t beat the price,” Mr. McBain said. “The price is a fraction of what it would be in Canada or the U.S. for a therapist.”
Mr. McBain, who is partly paralyzed and uses a wheelchair, said he was treated for several weeks during each visit at a Havana facility. He said the treatment in Cuba cost about $200 a day, which includes about six hours of physical therapy daily, a comfortable room and board. Canada’s national health system does not provide for the type of therapy he needs, he said, and a private neurological physical therapist would charge about $93 an hour.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/world/americas/americans-may-see-appeal-of-medical-tourism-in-cuba.html
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568104 - 08/23/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
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Crystal G



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568115 - 08/23/16 04:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
AFAIK medical care in Cuba is basically free. But you have to pay for pharmaceuticals, which can be expensive for people who aren't making very much money.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23569095 - 08/23/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is medical tourism in other countries too. Flying to places like ecuador where the costs are far cheaper
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: 404]
#23569107 - 08/23/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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A holiday and some treatment, all the while saving big bucks?
Uncle Sam wouldn't like it, but would you?
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Patlal
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: LobsterSauce] 2
#23569219 - 08/23/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Anyone else keep expecting to see a Zappa post in these kind of threads?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23569271 - 08/23/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Asante said: I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
how about telling us what the actual cost is, in order for you to have the discounted health care which according to your $2222 number was $185/month then a sum has to come out of taxes, now let's assume you work, what percentage of your pay goes to cover that healthcare
now check this out, I used to pay $327/ month in insurance, I know, it seems like a lot but that covered 3 people on a premium policy through my employer, that came out to 109/month per person and only having to pay a $20 co-pay each time I actually went to a doctor, I did that twice
my total annual pay out for insurance was just under $4000 to cover 3 people, under your netherlander policy it seems it would be $6666 for the same coverage but now everyone on the planet feels the need to add their two cents american politics and the people in the US get screwed. because under obamacare my insurance would cost me $12k/year so kindly fuck off with your socializerd horse shit since I can no longer afford health insurance thanks to you socialist fucks
And how many thousands of dollars did you need to cover your deductible?
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Patlal]
#23569301 - 08/23/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Anyone else keep expecting to see a Zappa post in these kind of threads?
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23569369 - 08/23/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
AFAIK medical care in Cuba is basically free. But you have to pay for pharmaceuticals, which can be expensive for people who aren't making very much money.
not for medical tourists which is why they get premium treatment
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Prisoner#1
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Patlal]
#23569372 - 08/23/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Asante said: I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
how about telling us what the actual cost is, in order for you to have the discounted health care which according to your $2222 number was $185/month then a sum has to come out of taxes, now let's assume you work, what percentage of your pay goes to cover that healthcare
now check this out, I used to pay $327/ month in insurance, I know, it seems like a lot but that covered 3 people on a premium policy through my employer, that came out to 109/month per person and only having to pay a $20 co-pay each time I actually went to a doctor, I did that twice
my total annual pay out for insurance was just under $4000 to cover 3 people, under your netherlander policy it seems it would be $6666 for the same coverage but now everyone on the planet feels the need to add their two cents american politics and the people in the US get screwed. because under obamacare my insurance would cost me $12k/year so kindly fuck off with your socializerd horse shit since I can no longer afford health insurance thanks to you socialist fucks
And how many thousands of dollars did you need to cover your deductible?
there was no deductible. it was a copay. $20 no matter what
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