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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD
#23565013 - 08/22/16 04:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not in a position to do it for another year... but I'm contemplating doing so by fall of 2017 or spring of 2018. I would like to work in research.
I am still friends with some of my favorite professors, we frequently ate lunch or dinner together. When I was a student, they were strongly persuading me to go to graduate school, because they thought I was perfect for it. But by my senior year, I got too burned out, and decided not to go to grad school.
I've been doing a lot of reading about employment opportunities for people with a PhD... some imply a good forecast. Between 2-3% of people with PhD's in the area of concentration I would pursue are unemployed, most of them because they are retired or are caretakers of children. Of those who are employed, 70% are in academia, and 30% are in administration, research, government, private sector, or other.
Then there are articles such as these which say "Don't bother unless you graduated from a top 5 Ivy League:" http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2015/02/university_hiring_if_you_didn_t_get_your_ph_d_at_an_elite_university_good.html
I obviously don't want to be one of those unemployed people with PhD's with hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt. And I also don't want to be one of those people with a PhD working a job they could have easily acquired with just a bachelors degree.
I'm very conflicted, as these possible outcomes are the only thing holding me back from pursuing higher education.
Does anybody have any advice?
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DpRwav
Flesh Vehicle



Registered: 09/15/13
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565024 - 08/22/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If that will help you land a career that you truly, genuinely desire to embody, then yea pursue it. The debt will mean nothing at that point.
Dont be one of those coulda shoulda woulda people, like me.
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Edited by DpRwav (08/22/16 04:22 AM)
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: DpRwav]
#23565039 - 08/22/16 04:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DpRwav said: If that will help you land a career that you truly, genuinely desire to embody, then yea pursue it. The debt will mean nothing at that point.
Dont be one of those coulda shoulda woulda people, like me.
It could most definitely help, but it's not a guarantee. I could end up like one of those people that end up having to work an entry-level job in sales or marketing, because none of those jobs I had hoped to pursue opened up for me. That would blow.
Ultimately you're right though, if it's really my dream I can't be afraid and will just have to take the plunge.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565048 - 08/22/16 04:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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What are you looking to get a PhD in and what field are you working in or looking to work in
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DpRwav
Flesh Vehicle



Registered: 09/15/13
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Dont get caught up in the what ifs, crystal. Each and every thing that will happen to you, good and bad(also inevitably), along the way will prepare you for what challenges and joyous occasions will manifest.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
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Quote:
something super extreme said: What are you looking to get a PhD in and what field are you working in or looking to work in
I was hoping to get a PhD in political science, which is where I got the stats about employment rates in that particular department from.
I was hoping to work in research for government (and doing this would require at least a masters, PhD preferred). Working for a place like the Pew Research Center or the NIJ or RAND Corporation would be ideal. Because of this, I would likely be focusing on international politics or public policy.
But I would also be more than happy with landing a job in academia too. Universities might prefer to hire Ivy League graduates, but the bulk of professorial jobs are attained at community colleges. I've seen a handful of community college professors who graduated from mid-tier universities and only hold a masters degree even.
Originally I was contemplating other fields to go study, such as obtaining a PsyD which would allow me greater assurance to work in both clinical and research environments. But I would have to go back and finish several undergraduate courses in that field of study to be eligible for admission. I feel this might take too long, and I don't want to potentially mess up my 3.3-3.5 GPA by taking all these classes I end up not excelling at.
If I were to pursue a PhD in political science, which is what I already have my degree in, I could just file my application as is, and have my old professors write me letters of recommendation. In all my poli sci classes I already have a proven track record of good grades.
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travelleler
a horse-fart in a hurricane



Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
Loc: yonder mountains
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: DpRwav] 1
#23565061 - 08/22/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The education system is only there to take your money. They don't actually teach stuff. Its a fucking joke. What they do is called programming and indoctrination. Everything is subliminal except the reward-risk factor, which keeps you involved.
If you're already a scientologist then go ahead and go to school, the reptilian overlords probably gave you the idea by inception during a dream and already have a plan for you...
Why don't you play some solitaire? see the red queen?
.
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: travelleler]
#23565062 - 08/22/16 05:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said: The education system is only there to take your money. They don't actually teach stuff. Its a fucking joke. What they do is called programming and indoctrination. Everything is subliminal except the reward-risk factor, which keeps you involved.
That might be true for universities, but in graduate school you actually spend most of your time writing dissertations and publishing research papers. So no. A lot of ground-breaking research came from students participating in graduate schools.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565066 - 08/22/16 05:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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the grad school around here pays for their students schooling
i would be brutally honest with myself and figure out the core motive behind such a decision
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travelleler
a horse-fart in a hurricane



Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
Loc: yonder mountains
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565067 - 08/22/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
something super extreme said: What are you looking to get a PhD in and what field are you working in or looking to work in
I was hoping to get a PhD in political science
 
OMG. ok. Nevermind me.
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/10-worst-college-degrees-to-earn-in-2015/
if you don't see any problems with poli-sci degrees then you're perfect for the job.

FYI political science is NOT SCIENTIFIC. It's sociology and psychology... anthropological.
Also, one of the easiest bullshit degrees you can get and still be considered academic.
So like what's your point? earn a title in exchange for your willing servitude to the banking cartel?
For what?
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565072 - 08/22/16 05:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said: The education system is only there to take your money. They don't actually teach stuff. Its a fucking joke. What they do is called programming and indoctrination. Everything is subliminal except the reward-risk factor, which keeps you involved.
If you're already a scientologist then go ahead and go to school, the reptilian overlords probably gave you the idea by inception during a dream and already have a plan for you...
Why don't you play some solitaire? see the red queen?
.
Lol.
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
something super extreme said: What are you looking to get a PhD in and what field are you working in or looking to work in
I was hoping to get a PhD in political science, which is where I got the stats about employment rates in that particular department from.
I was hoping to work in research for government (and doing this would require at least a masters, PhD preferred). Working for a place like the Pew Research Center or the NIJ or RAND Corporation would be ideal. Because of this, I would likely be focusing on international politics or public policy.
But I would also be more than happy with landing a job in academia too. Universities might prefer to hire Ivy League graduates, but the bulk of professorial jobs are attained at community colleges. I've seen a handful of community college professors who graduated from mid-tier universities and only hold a masters degree even.
Originally I was contemplating other fields to go study, such as obtaining a PsyD which would allow me greater assurance to work in both clinical and research environments. But I would have to go back and finish several undergraduate courses in that field of study to be eligible for admission. I feel this might take too long, and I don't want to potentially mess up my 3.3-3.5 GPA by taking all these classes I end up not excelling at.
If I were to pursue a PhD in political science, which is what I already have my degree in, I could just file my application as is, and have my old professors write me letters of recommendation. In all my poli sci classes I already have a proven track record of good grades.
I would be more inclined to pursue the PsyD for employability, but if pol sci is what you're feeling then go for it.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Loc: outer space
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: travelleler]
#23565075 - 08/22/16 05:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said:
 
OMG. ok. Nevermind me.
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/10-worst-college-degrees-to-earn-in-2015/
if you don't see any problems with poli-sci degrees then you're perfect for the job.

FYI political science is NOT SCIENTIFIC. It's sociology and psychology... anthropological.
Also, one of the easiest bullshit degrees you can get and still be considered academic.
So like what's your point? earn a title in exchange for your willing servitude to the banking cartel?
For what?
The link you posted is only for bachelors degrees. Degrees and their job probabilities change depending on what level you finished at.
Psychology is an example of another one that's listed. A bachelors in psychology won't do anything as far as employment goes, but a PhD or PsyD is what helps you become a psychologist or clinical researcher.
Not only that, but attaining a criminal justice degree will help in becoming a law enforcement officer, or to secure law school admission. It all depends on what your goals are, and what you intend to become.
To work in government research or at a political think-tank or in research & development for example, you must obtain at least a masters or PhD. And in this field, a political science or sociology degree is strongly preferred over a science or statistics degree. You still develop research methodologies and learn quantitative and qualitative methods in graduate school, even in the liberal arts.
So, it all depends on what you're intending to do, like I said. For people who are looking to enter the private sector, of course a PhD in political science won't help you. That's not what this is about.
In reality, the unemployment level for people with PhD's is actually very low. Less than 2.5% of people with PhD's are unemployed.
Nobody said it was a science, seems you have your own personal gripes and you're more interested in flaunting your own personal irrelevant views about the subject.
Edited by Crystal G (08/22/16 05:31 AM)
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565076 - 08/22/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
something super extreme said: What are you looking to get a PhD in and what field are you working in or looking to work in
I was hoping to get a PhD in political science
 
OMG. ok. Nevermind me.
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/10-worst-college-degrees-to-earn-in-2015/
if you don't see any problems with poli-sci degrees then you're perfect for the job.

FYI political science is NOT SCIENTIFIC. It's sociology and psychology... anthropological.
Also, one of the easiest bullshit degrees you can get and still be considered academic.
So like what's your point? earn a title in exchange for your willing servitude to the banking cartel?
For what?
Someone couldn't get into college.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Argues political science isn't a science.
Posts a completely unscientific link to prove his viewpoint.
About bachelors degrees, which aren't even being discussed.

Furthermore, political science, which was the degree being discussed, isn't even on that list.
Try again, bud.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: travelleler]
#23565083 - 08/22/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've read a fair few of those 'interviews with people at the end of their lives' type things over the years, it fairly fascinates me what people have to share when they reach that point where they're 88 years, still coherent, yet trapped in the worn out physical shell we inhabit.
The thing that has stuck with me the most from reading such things is that they will often say 'you always regret the things you didn't do, rather than the things you did'.
That being said, if you've a calling in your heart to do this to help others CG, I say do it. If you're just thinking it's gonna benefit you financially long term, I say don't.
Based on my own experiences, is to the most important thing to establish if it's your heart or your head that wants this. The 'system', which I have become so deeply entrenched in myself, got me by the head when I signed up for a career at 18 because I knew it was the one that would pay best based on my skillset, and I relentlessly pursued it for the next 15 years. IT. I made it to the top end of my game, in the banking sector, only to realise that I hated it as it goes against everything I stand for. I followed the path to the big money, which I now have, and now all I want to do is escape it to live a simple life, free of all the politics that comes from working in a well established institution. They're just fucked. The government and the banks being the worst as far as I can see. Young startup companies are quite a different cup of tea mind you.
Think about the dreams you had when you were much younger. They're the ones to follow IME. Culture has a way of worming its way under your skin and deluding you as to what's right in how you should fit into it. Doing right by yourself and others is all that's worth shit in this life IMO. Will this path be doing that?
TL:DR: is it your heart or your head that wants this?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23565089 - 08/22/16 05:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I've read a fair few of those 'interviews with people at the end of their lives' type things over the years, it fairly fascinates me what people have to share when they reach that point where they're 88 years, still coherent, yet trapped in the worn out physical shell we inhabit.
The thing that has stuck with me the most from reading such things is that they will often say 'you always regret the things you didn't do, rather than the things you did'.
That being said, if you've a calling in your heart to do this to help others CG, I say do it. If you're just thinking it's gonna benefit you financially long term, I say don't.
Based on my own experiences, is to the most important thing to establish if it's your heart or your head that wants this. The 'system', which I have become so deeply entrenched in myself, got me by the head when I signed up for a career at 18 because I knew it was the one that would pay best based on my skillset, and I relentlessly pursued it for the next 15 years. IT. I made it to the top end of my game, in the banking sector, only to realise that I hated it as it goes against everything I stand for. I followed the path to the big money, which I now have, and now all I want to do is escape it to live a simple life, free of all the politics that comes from working in a well established institution. They're just fucked. The government and the banks being the worst as far as I can see. Young startup companies are quite a different cup of tea mind you.
Think about the dreams you had when you were much younger. They're the ones to follow IME. Culture has a way of worming its way under your skin and deluding you as to what's right in how you should fit into it. Doing right by yourself and others is all that's worth shit in this life IMO. Will this path be doing that?
TL:DR: is it your heart or your head that wants this?
I would say it's my heart that is yearning for this, and my head is the one that has been rationalizing me to not do it, mostly for financial reasons and employment probability.
The truth is, I can make just as much money doing other types of work. $50K a year isn't bad when you consider that you don't have a ton of student debt to pay off. I worked for a large financial institution too, and I hated it. I don't enjoy working in big corporations, personally.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565092 - 08/22/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's cliche' but if you're seeking a PhD, you should do it for the love. It's a long, tough road that doesn't necessarily pay off with tons of job prospects or financial reward.
The first thing you might consider is cost. PhDs in biological sciences are (generally) paid for in full. The second item you might consider is what you actually mean when you say you "work with a research corporation." For some of the jobs you mentioned, there is likely a lot of opportunity outside of the PhD realm, it just depends on what you want to do specifically.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Brian Jones
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565094 - 08/22/16 05:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: I'm not in a position to do it for another year... but I'm contemplating doing so by fall of 2017 or spring of 2018. I would like to work in research.
I am still friends with some of my favorite professors, we frequently ate lunch or dinner together. When I was a student, they were strongly persuading me to go to graduate school, because they thought I was perfect for it. But by my senior year, I got too burned out, and decided not to go to grad school.
I've been doing a lot of reading about employment opportunities for people with a PhD... some imply a good forecast. Between 2-3% of people with PhD's in the area of concentration I would pursue are unemployed, most of them because they are retired or are caretakers of children. Of those who are employed, 70% are in academia, and 30% are in administration, research, government, private sector, or other.
Then there are articles such as these which say "Don't bother unless you graduated from a top 5 Ivy League:" http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2015/02/university_hiring_if_you_didn_t_get_your_ph_d_at_an_elite_university_good.html
I obviously don't want to be one of those unemployed people with PhD's with hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt. And I also don't want to be one of those people with a PhD working a job they could have easily acquired with just a bachelors degree.
I'm very conflicted, as these possible outcomes are the only thing holding me back from pursuing higher education.
Does anybody have any advice?
As somebody who did this for years, I can offer some advice. A lot depends on the major. Jobs promising prestigious professions and high salary jobs usually require you to borrow a lot of money. In more academic fields they will basically pay you to go to grad school if you have good GRE (or whatever scores). This generally doesn't happen at the true "elite" schools, but it is very common at the next level, which includes most of the higher level publics, schools rated 30-60 in the country. Good Luck.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Brian Jones]
#23565119 - 08/22/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
As somebody who did this for years, I can offer some advice. A lot depends on the major. Jobs promising prestigious professions and high salary jobs usually require you to borrow a lot of money. In more academic fields they will basically pay you to go to grad school if you have good GRE (or whatever scores). This generally doesn't happen at the true "elite" schools, but it is very common at the next level, which includes most of the higher level publics, schools rated 30-60 in the country. Good Luck.
Yes, this is actually what a family member of mine (who has a PhD in the same field I was looking to go into) was saying.
How do you have your grad school basically paid for? He mentioned something about being a teacher's assistant or teacher's aide. Are there other ways?
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: I am contemplating going back to school to pursue a PhD [Re: Crystal G]
#23565122 - 08/22/16 06:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: How do you have your grad school basically paid for? He mentioned something about being a teacher's assistant or teacher's aide. Are there other ways?
You work like a dog for your mentor/professor.
Usually, its not the professor doing all the grunt work to obtain data and publications. You'll be the one puring through a two million cell excel spreadsheet crunching numbers.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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