|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23567526 - 08/22/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I never understood how illegal immigrants get government support. I'd imagine a hospital would stabilize an immigrant using Medicare and that their children take up class seats, but other than that, what benefits might they receive?
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 39 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma]
#23567563 - 08/22/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: how does one borrow free money?
Issuing more and more debt without consequences is essentially borrowing for free, it's unrealistic to expect that to happen infinitely.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23567603 - 08/22/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
well, it isn't borrowed so much as it is doled out. seems to happen on a wide scale pretty regularly, and nobody really cares where that free money is borrowed from or who's pockets it ends up in; and no one really seems to care, i mean, they get paid in free money all the time, so it's not like it makes a difference to them, as long as their taxes don't go up. even if their taxes go up, they still don't seem to mind when it's defence contractors, or business moguls making it go up. because it's free, why should anyone care, after, it's what everyone wants.
but not if you don't work for it. it's unrealistic to expect people to want to work for something that's free, but then again, it's also unrealistic to expect people to want to work at all, so that's why we have this lovely little system; no one complains though then it's this way.
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23567943 - 08/23/16 12:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: how does one borrow free money?
Issuing more and more debt without consequences is essentially borrowing for free, it's unrealistic to expect that to happen infinitely.
The Treasury is in charge of creating and destroying currency, and it does it's darndest to keep the dollar stable. When the us gov't runs a deficit, it usually borrows the difference by issuing bonds. But yes, the gov't must pay interest on these bonds and the payments are becoming increasingly burdensome.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: Crumist]
#23567949 - 08/23/16 12:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
yeah, but that burden will only create more jobs, so it's ok, we'll just need more man power. men, don't put your cocks away just yet...ladies...get over it, you're easy bake ovens. we need to pay of this debt...so spread 'em.
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 8 hours, 5 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23568726 - 08/23/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Even so, the banks are creating debt faster than any orgyfest can solve.
A bank loans $100,000 that it actually has in its possession. But the interest rate is 5%. So the bank just created $5000 out of thin air, causing inflation. And this isnt including the derivatives, credit swaps, and all the other house of cards schemes the financial sector engages in.
We will never pay off the debt. Its virtually impossible to ever earn enough outpace the creation of debt within our current system.
--------------------
|
specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23569299 - 08/23/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Even so, the banks are creating debt faster than any orgyfest can solve.
A bank loans $100,000 that it actually has in its possession. But the interest rate is 5%. So the bank just created $5000 out of thin air, causing inflation. And this isnt including the derivatives, credit swaps, and all the other house of cards schemes the financial sector engages in.
We will never pay off the debt. Its virtually impossible to ever earn enough outpace the creation of debt within our current system.
Money isnt being printed and added to the economy. Money isnt finite as long as wealth is being created. Im pretty sure interst doesnt cause inflation
--------------------
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman] 1
#23569535 - 08/23/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: Deporting an illegal is cheaper than supporting them. Just wait until the EU and US can't borrow free money to support them any longer, nature will win at the end of the day.
I'd be interested in getting back to this as our current tangent is giving me ECON nightmares.
Research on illegal immigrants is often contradictory and often performed by thinktanks only interested in manipulating and cherry-picking to support their own narrative. And, besides, the fact that they are "undocumented" can't make things easier.
An illegal immigrant without forged papers and a fake identity won't collect any SNAP, WIC, HEAP, Social security, and many others. Therefore they must work to eat and keep a roof. Those paid above board pay income tax, property tax, social security, and disability without ever being able to collect on SS or disability. Those working under the table get away from paying many taxes, but there is no escape from the sales tax and tax on money wiring back to their home nation to support them. The migrants Ive come across are here for work (taking our jobs!) which is one discussion, but the only people I know reviving significant government support are native born.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 6 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: Crumist]
#23569543 - 08/23/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Let's not forget that without undocumented labor, agriculture in the US would collapse.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#23569551 - 08/23/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: Money isnt being printed and added to the economy. Money isnt finite as long as wealth is being created. Im pretty sure interst doesnt cause inflation
i'm pretty sure any fiat currency is as finite as the interest is high.
|
specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma]
#23569593 - 08/23/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
what im saying is, they arent creating new money, they are just making you pay the more then they give you in the long run
--------------------
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#23569596 - 08/23/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
that's illogical. literally.
|
specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma]
#23569602 - 08/23/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
so, when I give someone fifty dollars and they have to pay me sixty, Im creating currency?
--------------------
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#23569628 - 08/23/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
no, when you create debt you're taking from a finite pool of money and increasing your pay-out of what you take versus what you put back, which is highly manipulative, but what isn't, amirite?
but the pool, however, is created out of thin air; with only the verbal backing of a sum few, and the backs of laborers, to hold up said air; call it gravity if you will.
and said fiat pool only contains so much money, right, until the pool gets an upgrade, and that air becomes more spacious, and thinner, and less heavy. it's not money that upgrades the pool, however...it's not money that's the air...it's just people, whom make up the market, and the sum few whom let limits on the market so that the economy runs..."smoothly". people can make up as much money as they want, long as things run 'smoothly', you see.
this paradigm can be readily shifted from one point to the next, if it was only for those sum few whom MOVE THE MONEY, you see, because they hold the pool up with their...appreciation. their appreciation of that sweet sweet pool to dive in. all tied up in business, and doesn't really exist except within those businesses (including government), but still nevertheless, the company pool is really cool!
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 39 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: Crumist]
#23569645 - 08/23/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said: Deporting an illegal is cheaper than supporting them. Just wait until the EU and US can't borrow free money to support them any longer, nature will win at the end of the day.
I'd be interested in getting back to this as our current tangent is giving me ECON nightmares.
Research on illegal immigrants is often contradictory and often performed by thinktanks only interested in manipulating and cherry-picking to support their own narrative. And, besides, the fact that they are "undocumented" can't make things easier.
An illegal immigrant without forged papers and a fake identity won't collect any SNAP, WIC, HEAP, Social security, and many others. Therefore they must work to eat and keep a roof. Those paid above board pay income tax, property tax, social security, and disability without ever being able to collect on SS or disability. Those working under the table get away from paying many taxes, but there is no escape from the sales tax and tax on money wiring back to their home nation to support them. The migrants Ive come across are here for work (taking our jobs!) which is one discussion, but the only people I know reviving significant government support are native born.
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers
"Illegal immigration cost US taxpayers about $113 billion per year at the federal, state, and local level."
The costs are much higher when we include lost jobs and lower wages for US citizens.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23569648 - 08/23/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
those aren't costs. they are losses.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 39 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma]
#23569658 - 08/23/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: those aren't costs. they are losses.
For the US working class they are losses, for the US top .10% they are huge gains.
You have to remember when a US citizen loses a job to an illegal, they now need governmental assistance to survive (food stamps, welfare, SSI, public housing, Medicaid,) those end up being COSTS to the US taxpayer!!
Edited by qman (08/23/16 04:38 PM)
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23569678 - 08/23/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
um, but those people don't necessary go on government assistance. some will find new jobs.
and of course, for the top percentile, it's gainful, why do you think they like "jobs" and shit...more welfare? more jobs, too.
but you already know this...yet you support it. well, i guess we all can't play by our own rules. sorry about that.
and yeah, the US taxpayer, it costs more to them to support this system...and it'll keep costing more. even if you get rid of the illegals, then the burden will simply shift to legals...they'll be the ones putting people out of their once dependable job, and putting them, perhaps, on gov. assistance. because the top percent love that. you love it, too. well, you sure damn well try to save what is already a broken system...but since i don't know if people can do better, i am not really blaming you, so don't get me wrong. i don't think you or anyone else is really doing anything more than what they were engendered to do.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 39 minutes
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: akira_akuma]
#23569689 - 08/23/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: um, but those people don't necessary go on government assistance. some will find new jobs.
and of course, for the top percentile, it's gainful, why do you think they like "jobs" and shit...more welfare? more jobs, too.
but you already know this...yet you support it. well, i guess we all can't play by our own rules. sorry about that.
and yeah, the US taxpayer, it costs more to them to support this system...and it'll keep costing more. even if you get rid of the illegals, then the burden will simply shift to legals...they'll be the ones putting people out of their once dependable job, and putting them, perhaps, on gov. assistance. because the top percent love that. you love it, too. well, you sure damn well try to save what is already a broken system...but since i don't know if people can do better, i am not really blaming you, so don't get me wrong. i don't think you or anyone else is really doing anything more than what they were engendered to do.
The unemployment rate for black and Hispanic young adults is not acceptable and that's because of illegal immigration, that needs to stop.
What's Obama done for them? Made it worse.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance [Re: qman]
#23569719 - 08/23/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
how? speeches? tell me.
|
|