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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism?
    #23564545 - 08/21/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

This has been a recurring theme to my thoughts for awhile, but I just now figured out how to put it into words.

I often think about what it means to be right/wrong, moral/immoral, etc., and I realized that a lot of people who claim themselves as moral are really sadists who use justice as an excuse to wish painful deaths/executions on people.

I think movies exploit this a lot too.  In movies you will see criminals experience really gruesome deaths and many people get off on it.  However both the criminal and the crime were only fictional, yet people celebrate the portrayal of violence in the name of justice.

** To be clear I'm not saying that violent punishment is never warranted, and I think that the death penalty is just in some cases.  But I'm just saying it almost seems like some people are delighted to have an excuse to wish pain and death on someone.


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564574 - 08/21/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah of course. I think we all got a little sadist in us, some just have a higher threshold til it comes out, and some are afraid to admit that about themselves because then it would blur the line between justice and revenge :shrug: My opinion at least.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Eminence]
    #23564593 - 08/21/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That's true, but I'm not sure if the concept I describe is even the exact same thing as revenge.  For example, some people might even hope to be wronged so that they could have a reason to seek revenge.


But what you said about everyone having some sadism in them, that implies a moral hypocrisy in this situation.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564606 - 08/21/16 11:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes but there's a sadistic urge in all of us, somewhere... Whether we ignored it and shove it deep down or indulge in the viscous sting of karma is up to us.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564615 - 08/21/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Absolutely. They also erroneously throw around the term 'karma' to justify their bloodlust.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23564621 - 08/21/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I read a legit book about "Witches" in Europe during the 1600s and it was absolutely all done in the name of sadism. Most scholars would actually agree with that, the evidence is seriously horrifying. You'd think records from back then would be so scant you couldn't really get much of an impression of what anyone was thinking but holy fuck thats so far from the truth.


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflinePartoftheSource
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564626 - 08/21/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No Justice. Just us.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23564636 - 08/21/16 11:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Problem was, they didn't burn many actual witches, mostly just people who were societal misfits. Also, like most religious zealot dogmatist lunatics who completely miss the ball, they abused the righteous pursuit of destroying witches and bait and switched it with senseless persecution of anything but witches.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Great Scott]
    #23564650 - 08/21/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Problem was, they didn't burn many actual witches, mostly just people who were societal misfits. Also, like most religious zealot dogmatist lunatics who completely miss the ball, they abused the righteous pursuit of destroying witches and bait and switched it with senseless persecution of anything but witches.



Dude, its so much fucking worse than you think. I really thought I had a pretty good grasp on witch trials but OMFG. With so much time distance from it theres almost comedy in it. I read this one account of a woman who was accused of being a witch, then in prison the guards all took turns raping her. The next morning they all confessed to what they "had done," but they said she used her witch powers to force them to do it. The guy writing it all down even mentioned how she looked like a nice girl and after the rapes she looked absolutely distraught out of her mind. Yet he just chaulked it up to her demonic powers of persuasion.


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23564654 - 08/21/16 11:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Speaking of witch
This is gonna be good


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23564666 - 08/21/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

This is what a real witch looks like.


Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Great Scott]
    #23564677 - 08/22/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think a lot of people do, but not all.

Nothing irritates me more than for example when people say "I hope that rapist takes so much shit up his ass in prison that...". This is just continuing a fucked up cycle and doesn't solve a thing.

No i don't wish that they get off easy and shit. But at the same time when i picture the "ideal society" there is a program where ANYONE AND EVERYONE can be rehabilitated to a functioning member of society.

Yes i know this is unrealistic, (this is the same ideal society where the cure for cancer is free, the government pays for what i need to survive and everyone gets a free puppy in my mind) but to think that some people's idea of an ideal society is one that has any room for pain and hurt makes me sick.

I feel like the majority of sexual predators and criminals you hear about in the media all have some traumatic past usually involving abuse of their own. Yes i know this isn't 100% of the time, but in my ideal society we would be able to find the trigger that causes this and other criminal behavior and prevent it from ever happening.(clockwork orange comes to mind:rofl: great film and book if somehow you haven't seen them)

My ideal society is isn't ever going to happen, but holy shit at some point people need to wake up and realize doing ths same thing over and over again isn't going to give different results.

It's late, i probably butchered what i meant to say and I'm not going to argue any of this till tomorrow, but more or less i just wanted this thread marked so i can come back and elaborate later.





God I'm gonna take a ton of shit for this stance.:rofl:


Edited by LuSiD enthusiast (08/22/16 12:05 AM)


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23564689 - 08/22/16 12:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The worst offenders are protected in their ivory towers. Pedophilia and Satanic Ritual Abuse is much more rampant than people suppose. In fact, it's interwoven into the very foundation of society itself. Just look at the 'Papa Kills Babies' story for some insight into this. The kids were declared to be either liars with vivid imaginations and/or someone put them up to it. It was declared a hoax and nothing more as the story was quickly swept under the rug, the claims were diverted, and no one was prosecuted.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564690 - 08/22/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
This has been a recurring theme to my thoughts for awhile, but I just now figured out how to put it into words.

I often think about what it means to be right/wrong, moral/immoral, etc., and I realized that a lot of people who claim themselves as moral are really sadists who use justice as an excuse to wish painful deaths/executions on people.

I think movies exploit this a lot too.  In movies you will see criminals experience really gruesome deaths and many people get off on it.  However both the criminal and the crime were only fictional, yet people celebrate the portrayal of violence in the name of justice.

** To be clear I'm not saying that violent punishment is never warranted, and I think that the death penalty is just in some cases.  But I'm just saying it almost seems like some people are delighted to have an excuse to wish pain and death on someone.




Definitely agree with this. It's often come up in my discussions of the death penalty with my friends. I'm 100% against the death penalty in any and all cases; for the state to wield formal/legal power to decide who lives and dies goes beyond what I consider permissible. Those who are in favor of it often describe gruesome execution scenarios for people who "really deserve it". I don't think sadism is the only reason people support the death penalty but I would guess that it is a common one.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23564694 - 08/22/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nah man, I think you hit the nail on the head.

When you're in elementary school and a kid hits you, you hit back harder. As an adult you realize that if someone hits you, hitting back harder doesn't mean you win it just means you're both in jail.

As a nation I think we need to apply this to the criminal justice system. I saw this doc about prisons and one of the prisoners was like "If you have one of us in here for more than 10 years you better not let us out." Longer sentences do not correlate to less crimes. Its just a fact. We would love for it to be so easy that increasingly higher sentences would create decreasingly lower incidences of said crime. Yet since the war on drugs, usage as only increased as sentences reach an objectively insane number. Obama has been spending most of his last year letting people out of prison who don't deserve it. Why would having MORE heroin make you a worse person? Makes no fucking sense.

If you raped someone, you raped someone! Fuck man, you're going to jail cause you're a predatory sick motherfucker. Its not like they say "well, he only raped one girl, he gets probation. If he had raped five or six girls we might put him in jail depending on the circumstances.


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23564702 - 08/22/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
I'm 100% against the death penalty in any and all cases; for the state to wield formal/legal power to decide who lives and dies goes beyond what I consider permissible.




Tell that to Hillary "Hitman" Clinton. Fuck, her criminal cabal is so lawless, they don't even go through the formality of even pretending to use the justice system to bump people off.

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
If you raped someone, you raped someone! Fuck man, you're going to jail cause you're a predatory sick motherfucker. Its not like they say "well, he only raped one girl, he gets probation. If he had raped five or six girls we might put him in jail depending on the circumstances.




Again, tell that to Hillary Clinton. She'll gleefully use mishandled physical evidence technicalities to keep a sexual predator out of prison and get him off with 2 months time served. But at least she's moral enough to only stoop that low if it means her paycheck might get cut off.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23564714 - 08/22/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, sure, absolutely. I think a lot of things in life are done not for any logical reason but just because people have sadistic tendencies and get a kick out of it.


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Great Scott]
    #23564715 - 08/22/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

an important part of society is keeping the general populus eager to pull any upstarts back into line, or cheer when the establishment does.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: Great Scott]
    #23564741 - 08/22/16 12:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Tell that to Hillary "Hitman" Clinton. Fuck, her criminal cabal is so lawless, they don't even go through the formality of even pretending to use the justice system to bump people off.

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
If you raped someone, you raped someone! Fuck man, you're going to jail cause you're a predatory sick motherfucker. Its not like they say "well, he only raped one girl, he gets probation. If he had raped five or six girls we might put him in jail depending on the circumstances.




Again, tell that to Hillary Clinton. She'll gleefully use mishandled physical evidence technicalities to keep a sexual predator out of prison and get him off with 2 months time served. But at least she's moral enough to only stoop that low if it means her paycheck might get cut off.



Listen man, if I could have Hillary replaced with someone better I would. If it werent for the fact that Obama was the only electable democrate since Bill I'd replace him too. But some relatively pointless national security crimes versus being an acutal liar and criminal like Trump makes the election unfair. Trump cannot win and its 100% because of him, not because Hillary is a great candidate or because the syste is rigged. Or maybe I should say she is going to win because the system IS rigged toward fucking backward retarded ignorant fools. The RNC better change their image fucking now because otherwise they'll slowly get replaced by an actually effective party


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Do you think people use justice as an excuse for sadism? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23564743 - 08/22/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I wish I could vote Obama for a third term


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