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Offlinegorgeousgeorge
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contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane
    #23562743 - 08/21/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey guys, I just transferred some fully colonized grain spawn cakes of Lions mane onto two filter bags of sawdust for bulk growing.  Within 5 days I'm seeing what looks like little dots of black mold among the mycelium in both bags.  I'm not sure if that's what I'm looking at, but if so, I'm pretty confused.  The lions mane was propagated in petri dishes, then rye berries for spawn, clean looking the whole way.  I pasteurized sawdust bags, following this recipe exactly: https://mycotek.org/index.php?threads/lipas-pasteurized-fuel-pellet-tek.53/ ; I didn't pay much attention to sterilization when transferring to the bags cause I thought between the pasteurization and the fact that the mycelium already had a leg up because it colonized the grain.  I inoculated the bags by just ripping the colonized grain into chunks and putting them in the bag.

Can someone tell me whether this is contaminated, if there's anything I can do, and why it might have happened









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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: gorgeousgeorge]
    #23562774 - 08/21/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey gg, could be your inoculation technique. You might add the cakes to the sub bags, seal, then break them up and homogenize, or use grain spawn. I've never used the lipa tek but it seems that it might actually sterilize the sub, making it susceptible to contamination if not treated with aseptic technique.  Was the sawdust supplemented at all? Also, was this done under a hood or sab?


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Offlineanthiawe
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23562813 - 08/21/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I took a look at your recipe for your substrate, since there is no fertilizer or anything its probably a contam of some kind. I use CIL 8-8-8 fertilizer and the small pieces will get soaked when i mix and at times the look just like that.


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Invisibledankington
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: anthiawe]
    #23562884 - 08/21/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Your spawn was likely very bacterial. Hericium will look very light and whispy as it colonizes the grains. You will only see it thicken after it's fully colonized.

Lipa's tek is solid, so I'm sure that's not it.


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Offlinetump
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23566999 - 08/22/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Mhmmm move ot outside if really contamed


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: tump]
    #23570672 - 08/23/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's definitely contaminated - however unlike another poster I doubt it's your inoculation technique- probably had to do with either your pasteurization or sealing technique. Do you have an impulse sealer?


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Offlinegorgeousgeorge
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23575367 - 08/25/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the response.  I think you might be right, I ran into a problem with my other grain jars at the spawn stage where they got wet spot bacteria after I shook them, because the jar filter was in contact with the grains.  My lions mane jars had the same filter design problem, but unlike the other jars they were already fully colonized by the time I got to shaking them, so I never saw any contamination.  So you maybe think the lions mane spawn was bacterial as well, but I just didn't see it?  But then why would I be seeing what looks like mold, rather than bacteria, in the sawdust bags?


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Offlinegorgeousgeorge
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23575379 - 08/25/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for responding.  I don't have an impulse sealer.  My pasteurization tek only called for breaking the colonized grain jars up and putting them in the bag, then tying the bags off with zip ties.  I was under the impression that you didn't need to be super careful about sealing when pasteurizing because the pasteurization helps prevent contaminants, and the mycelium has developed enough that you have a head start in bulk bags.  Am I missing something?


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Invisibledankington
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23575408 - 08/25/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, sawdust doesn't need to be pasteurized if doing lipas tek. Boiling water's fine.

It was either grain spawn or inoculum. If it were the filter, you'd see the contam on the top of the sub. :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleRogerSmith

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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23575918 - 08/25/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

IME not every strain of LM is good for playing with pasteurization.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: RogerSmith]
    #23576260 - 08/25/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lipa's Tek actually does pasteurize it (as long as you cover it) and I have found, personally- that this type of contam dropped dramatically when I got an impulse sealer and have generally since then only seen it when the bag has been compromised, or when I haven't pasteurized. It could definitely be the spawn as well but I thought I'd point out my experience with it. Once I got an impulse sealer I saw a drop in contams and it ended top pinning so it is definitly worth the $20-$30.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23577042 - 08/25/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Over or under pasteurizing can prove a fatal mistake.
Always pasteurize, never overcook.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: Ferather]
    #23577193 - 08/25/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Over or under pasteurizing can prove a fatal mistake.
Always pasteurize, never overcook.



That was kind of my initial point, especially when adding boiling water to such a small amount of sub.  If it sterilizes, much more care would need to be taken when inoculating...


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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23579004 - 08/26/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

what am I not understanding? Wood doesn't mold. When have any of you seen moldy wood?

The mold is most likely from the grains. So, either they weren't sterilized properly, or the inoculate had something riding along. It wouldn't have been how you prepared the wood.

I mean, I've seen wood respond to bacteria and fungi, so the boiling water (which is way above the 130º-160º that would be pasteurization) on pellets seems fine. That's what Lipa does in his woodpellet tek. The wood pellets have already undergone immense heat and pressure to be formed into pellets.


SO, what am I missing? How am I wrong? It's obviously the grains. In cultivation of mushrooms with grain spawn, a sub contaminates 9/10 because of poor spawn.


Now, if your man were talking about supplemented sawdust, it'd be different. But we're not.


Edited by dankington (08/26/16 09:01 AM)


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23579055 - 08/26/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
what am I not understanding? Wood doesn't mold. When have any of you seen moldy wood?

The mold is most likely from the grains. So, either they weren't sterilized properly, or the inoculate had something riding along. It wouldn't have been how you prepared the wood.

I mean, I've seen wood respond to bacteria and fungi, so the boiling water (which is way above the 130º-160º that would be pasteurization) on pellets seems fine. That's what Lipa does in his woodpellet tek. The wood pellets have already undergone immense heat and pressure to be formed into pellets.


SO, what am I missing? How am I wrong? It's obviously the grains. In cultivation of mushrooms with grain spawn, a sub contaminates 9/10 because of poor spawn.



Honestly, I keep forgetting he didn't supplement.  Regardless, what Ferather, I believe, and I are pointing out is that it might actually be sterilizing the sub and not pasteurizing it.  Whether it's grain, straw, wood, rock or even plastic, a barren surface is much more susceptible to being colonized by something as opposed to one already inhabited.  But you're probably correct on the vector.


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InvisibleRogerSmith

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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23581182 - 08/26/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
what am I not understanding? Wood doesn't mold. When have any of you seen moldy wood?




Of course mold decomposes wood. Why would it not?
Wanna see moldy wood? Google


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Invisibledankington
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: RogerSmith]
    #23581192 - 08/26/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wood pellets done with lipa's tek won't. It's highly unlikely to be the vector if directions are followed. Even with twist ties. Not impossible, but occam's razor.


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InvisibleRogerSmith

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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23581315 - 08/26/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I agree you have a nice time-window for colonization with pellets but eventually it will mold, usually not before 7 days but hericium mycelium is pretty weak compared to other species so pasteurization doesn't work well.
My pasteurization attempts mostly failed and looked like OP pics.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: dankington]
    #23581355 - 08/26/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well but that's the point about possible incorrect pasteurization. He could have some parts unpasteaurized sitting next to parts that are, or possibly partially sterilized. My main reason for thinking it has something to do with pasteurization or the seal is that that color on the sub looks more like what grows on subs I had not gotten to spawning into yet- meaning it looks more like another wood eater and not a mycelium eater (in my experience). I am solely basing my assumptions off of personal experience though- so I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying there is another possibility.


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Invisibledankington
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Re: contam on bulk sawdust of lions mane [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23581382 - 08/26/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, thanks guys! I really just couldn't understand your reasoning, but that makes sense to me now.

It's just from being so used to cubes, where spawn is almost always the culprit. And no hericium bag i've done that way has had this issue.

:hatsoff:


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