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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video)fixed
    #23560679 - 08/20/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Recetly Isis released an article detailing the concerns of Muslims in their magazine, named after the place where they will battle the rusaders in the final battle, Dabiq

They make it extreamly clear that it isnt some idea of economic inequaity, but theological certitude, that drives this growing movement

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist, philosopher, and author on the subject, as well as christianity, meditation, and AI(soon to be released)
the video speaks for itself, and is far from a hate video.



Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/21/16 10:05 AM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 2
    #23560808 - 08/20/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

u posted the wrong video breh


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #23560830 - 08/20/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

lol


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Invisible404
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: akira_akuma] * 3
    #23560849 - 08/20/16 06:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I can't take OP seriously at all with that broken keyboard of his.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23560899 - 08/20/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

pretending you posted the right video, I'm familiar with sam harris, and he's surely a smart guy who I sometimes agree with, but I think he overstates the actual threat Islam poses to the west, or at least his arguments -largely reasonable- are easily misconstrued or used for nefarious means.

“Hundreds of millions of Muslims are nominal Muslims, who don’t take their faith seriously, who don’t want to kill apostates, who are horrified by ISIS [Islamic State] and we need to defend these people, prop them up and let them reform their faith.”

This quote is directly from Sam Harris.
It is one thing to say that Islam in its original form is awful, and quite another to extend that judgement to all Muslims


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Ezuma]
    #23560913 - 08/20/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

basically he's intellectualizing what i've already said in plain words years ago. ISIS started becoming a new threat, and the US didn't do nothing, no, they wanted to remain 'non-interventionist', and now they lay around and complain about ISIS and the Mooslims, all day, these people.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #23560937 - 08/20/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
pretending you posted the right video, I'm familiar with sam harris, and he's surely a smart guy who I sometimes agree with, but I think he overstates the actual threat Islam poses to the west, or at least his arguments -largely reasonable- are easily misconstrued or used for nefarious means.

“Hundreds of millions of Muslims are nominal Muslims, who don’t take their faith seriously, who don’t want to kill apostates, who are horrified by ISIS [Islamic State] and we need to defend these people, prop them up and let them reform their faith.”

This quote is directly from Sam Harris.
It is one thing to say that Islam in its original form is awful, and quite another to extend that judgement to all Muslims




Agreed.


I'm a pretty big Sam Harris fan, I own several of his books, I've seen nearly all his debates, and I listen to his podcast regularly.

But he's wrong on how sever of a problem Islam is. For someone whos a determinist, and doesnt believe in free will, he doesnt seem to grasp that external factors (outside of religion) have thrust radical Islam upon the world.

This is one of the few things we disagree on.


For anyone interesred, theres an excellent 3 hour conversation between Sam and Cenk Uygur of TYT on the topic of Islam.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23560954 - 08/20/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That video was moderately amusing


On topic, I don't think Islam is a serious threat to the West
Not in the slightest


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Invisible404
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23560998 - 08/20/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

wahhabism seems to be a pretty big threat with all the terrorism


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404] * 1
    #23561004 - 08/20/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

OP basically hates anyone that isn't him.

EDIT: He probably hates him too. Probably the mostest.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404] * 1
    #23561155 - 08/20/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
wahhabism seems to be a pretty big threat with all the terrorism




Well I agree that they can kill random groups of unarmed civilians

On a national level, they're no threat, even Saudi Arabia and Iran are just pawns.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23561245 - 08/20/16 08:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

haha jokeshop!

You know look out your window, are there any ISIS mofos aiming at you?

No,

so take responsibility for your life.

Fuck this fear mongering shit.

If you're right, about life, if you figure something out, it will be written all over you, so then you don't need to convince anybody, just live your life, people will understand they are wrong, they will seek what you found out.

Do
Not
Hate
or
Fear
Anything
Ever


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404]
    #23561276 - 08/20/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
wahhabism seems to be a pretty big threat with all the terrorism



I love wasabi


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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Invisible404
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23561300 - 08/20/16 08:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

404 said:
wahhabism seems to be a pretty big threat with all the terrorism




Well I agree that they can kill random groups of unarmed civilians

On a national level, they're no threat, even Saudi Arabia and Iran are just pawns.




wahaibism is an ideology or whatever, likely to blame for radical islam. so at the end of that, you have the terror attacks in the US, France, etc


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404] * 1
    #23561487 - 08/20/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lol wrong video

You posted a video of a guy talking about how much he loves fucking women on their periods. I approve :thumbup:


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23561746 - 08/20/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Surprise period sex is good but can be a let down when you think you she is getting super wet and then you find a murder scene.  Sheets aren't cheap...

As for Islam not being a threat to the west, tell that to the 1400 years of conflict between the two.  Muslims aren't inherently bad people, in fact many if not most are good people, but to say Islam and the west don't have history is living in denial.  The fact that so many people seem to ignore this aspect of reality is an indicator of its threat level.  :shrug:


--------------------
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404]
    #23561785 - 08/21/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

404 said:
wahhabism seems to be a pretty big threat with all the terrorism




Well I agree that they can kill random groups of unarmed civilians

On a national level, they're no threat, even Saudi Arabia and Iran are just pawns.




wahaibism is an ideology or whatever, likely to blame for radical islam. so at the end of that, you have the terror attacks in the US, France, etc




the amount of concern we have about terrorism and the amount of money we spend fighting it is so completely out of proportion to the actual risk.

There are gonna be tiny headed babies born all over Florida in the next year and we can't even get congress to allocate funds to help prevent tiny baby heads.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561792 - 08/21/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think the real concern regarding Islam isn't terrorism, it is a coup or colonization- but more likely to happen first in Europe.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
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Invisible404
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561804 - 08/21/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

zika affects adults too man. I need to get the hell out of here.
by the way, they are taking measures to control it in miami now. they are pretty much destroying mosquito populations in some portions, not a bad idea but i'm skeptical of the implications this may have down the line.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23561810 - 08/21/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A coup? Like France is going to fall to Islamic rebels?

Even if Muslims gained enough political power to elect Islamist politicians (which isn't something that is even close to happening), western countries have constitutions that ensure secular government. Even turkey, which is 99% Muslim, has resisted Islamization and sharia. Western European countries aren't even in danger of becoming majority Muslim.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: 404]
    #23561816 - 08/21/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
zika affects adults too man. I need to get the hell out of here.
by the way, they are taking measures to control it in miami now. they are pretty much destroying mosquito populations in some portions, not a bad idea but i'm skeptical of the implications this may have down the line.




Yeah, but Ziki infection is pretty inconsequential for adults. They can spray. i don't know if they can stop it tho.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561821 - 08/21/16 12:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Didn't London just elect a Muslim mayor?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23561867 - 08/21/16 12:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just because he is muslim and the women stand at the back when he gives speeches and the locals are banned from no-go zones and people silence each other with terms like Islamophobia for questioning immigration policies doesn't mean that they are colonizing or going to take over......  Gosh get it together you racist.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23561882 - 08/21/16 12:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
Just because he is muslim and the women stand at the back when he gives speeches and the locals are banned from no-go zones and people silence each other with terms like Islamophobia for questioning immigration policies doesn't mean that they are colonizing or going to take over......  Gosh get it together you racist.




None of those things are actually true. But, whatever.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561913 - 08/21/16 01:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:

None of those things are actually true. But, whatever.




Well that changes everything...  Sadiq Khan ISN'T a muslim, and his speech on Bremain DIDN'T have women at the back (I'm not saying he made them, I'm saying that's how it was) and Islamophobia is NEVER used as an ad-hominem when someone criticizes the immigration policies.  K

And as for no-go zones...  Clearly this isn't real.  Nothing to see here.



--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23561920 - 08/21/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you just claimed that women stand at the back of the room during his speeches because he's a Muslim. Prove that.

You claim that locals are banned for no-go zones. Prove that.

You claim that saying "islamophobia" silences critics. Prove that.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561932 - 08/21/16 01:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I did not say they stand at the back because he is a muslim.  My claim was that they are colonizing their country and those are symptoms which will allow it to happen.

Islamophobia is a term created by fascist and used by cowards to manipulate morons.  ~Richard Dawkins

And you're right about one thing- it only attempts to silence critics.  It is a term of manipulation meant to subvert the arguments being presented as coming from someone that is irrational.

As far as no-go zones, the video I posted clearly shows muslims harassing locals(a suspected gay guy) for being in the wrong area.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] * 1
    #23561953 - 08/21/16 01:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
I did not say they stand at the back because he is a muslim.




That was certainly your implication:
he is muslim and the women stand at the back when he gives speeches



Quote:

Islamophobia is a term created by fascist and used by cowards to manipulate morons.  ~Richard Dawkins

And you're right about one thing- it only attempts to silence critics.  It is a term of manipulation meant to subvert the arguments being presented as coming from someone that is irrational.



That's not silencing. You are free to continue debating even if someone calls you an islamophobe.

Quote:

As far as no-go zones, the video I posted clearly shows muslims harassing locals(a suspected gay guy) for being in the wrong area.



Harassing is not banning. You said people were banned

The cops should just arrest those assholes for harassing people. They are only getting away with it because they let them get away with it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23561974 - 08/21/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Like I said you are right that it only attempts to silence.  But it certainly is used and that is a symptom of the colonization of the west.

If I said "He is muslim so the women stand at the back during his speeches" then your point might be valid.  But the word AND implies they are separate premises to support the argument that colonization is occurring.  Maybe a comma might have made it more clear to you.  The women standing at the back during his speeches is a symptom of their culture changing due to colonization.

And your claim that "None of those things are true" has been disproven.  The mayor of London is an admitted muslim.  Therefor, your response has been negated.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23562006 - 08/21/16 02:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
If I said "He is muslim so the women stand at the back during his speeches" then your point might be valid.  But the word AND implies they are separate premises to support the argument that colonization is occurring.  Maybe a comma might have made it more clear to you.  The women standing at the back during his speeches is a symptom of their culture changing due to colonization.





You're not making any sense. You just said that them standing at the back is a symptom of their culture. Ergo, they are standing at the back, according to you, because he is Muslim or Arab.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] * 1
    #23562370 - 08/21/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:

As for Islam not being a threat to the west, tell that to the 1400 years of conflict between the two.  Muslims aren't inherently bad people, in fact many if not most are good people, but to say Islam and the west don't have history is living in denial.  The fact that so many people seem to ignore this aspect of reality is an indicator of its threat level.  :shrug:




No one's talking about history. The Ottoman Empire is long gone, the ME has been colonized, the gap in power between the West and the rest of the world is unprecedented.

Russia and China together are a threat due to their nuclear capabilities, but not in a conventional war.
The Middle East is a joke right now, and will be for another hundred years at least.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23562510 - 08/21/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I changed the video
My whole tablet is fucked up. My junkie roommate stole my other one and I had to buy a cheap piece of garbage.
The outer edges of the tablet dont even work. way worse then the keyboard not working. It reloads the page back to home for no reason.


I was going to make another thread about that, because its creepy and he is the brother of a popular vegan youtuber.


anyway, changed the video



embarassing


I also shouldnt be taken seriously



--------------------


Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/21/16 09:57 AM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23563178 - 08/21/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So I listened to most of it
I view him as short sighted

He asks early on if one would question the motive of a medical student, and says of course not, because they work so hard. Then compares this to daesh and their motives. He goes on to say their motives are purely theological.

That is basically the premise of what I heard (about 30min)


Medical students are not psychologically infallible by any means :lol: not even going to go into detail

As far as daesh, yeah there are going to be a lot of people motivated purely by theology, maybe 5% of them.
The rest might think that's what motivates them, but the reality is going to be socio-economic.

The history of Islam is a mix of reasonable and unreasonable people. Just like Catholics.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563199 - 08/21/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A motivation for doing something is the reason someone holds for doing that thing. How is it that you think 95% of isis is just mistaken about what they hold as their reason for acting as they do? That's ridiculous.

We're not talking about the history of Islam and Catholicism. We are talking about what is going on right now. 20-80 and 70-30 are both 'mixes'. You can't just say "well, they're both just mixes" and call it a wash.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563204 - 08/21/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A motivation for doing something is the reason someone holds for doing that thing. How is it that you think 95% of isis is just mistaken about what they hold as their reason for acting as they do? That's ridiculous.

We're not talking about the history of Islam and Catholicism. We are talking about what is going on right now. 20-80 and 70-30 are both 'mixes'. You can't just say "well, they're both just mixes" and call it a wash.




Well as I don't really have the focus time right now
I'm not going to delve into psychological academics, studies, etc

However it has been my observation, that the vast majority of people do not understand what motivates their actions, and the rest have only a limited understanding (including myself).


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563215 - 08/21/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If you only have a limited understanding of your own motivations, how is it that you think you are privy to the hidden motivations of a group of people you have likely never had a single encounter with to the degree that you can make statements as ridiculous as 95% don't understand their own reasons for doing what they do?


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: koods]
    #23563222 - 08/21/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

404 said:
zika affects adults too man. I need to get the hell out of here.
by the way, they are taking measures to control it in miami now. they are pretty much destroying mosquito populations in some portions, not a bad idea but i'm skeptical of the implications this may have down the line.




Yeah, but Ziki infection is pretty inconsequential for adults. They can spray. i don't know if they can stop it tho.




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-19/zika-may-cause-brain-damage-in-adults-too

i know i'm off topic here, so i'll leave this as it is.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563267 - 08/21/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
If you only have a limited understanding of your own motivations, how is it that you think you are privy to the hidden motivations of a group of people you have likely never had a single encounter with to the degree that you can make statements as ridiculous as 95% don't understand their own reasons for doing what they do?




The matter is fairly simple.

Emotions blind people, stress may motivate someone to quit their job or join a war, while they rationalize the action in any number of ways. It doesn't matter if I've met them, they're human and this holds true regardless of their culture, race, etc.

All of our thoughts and actions are affected by emotions and feelings, this can only be mitigated to a limited degree. You also misquoted me, I said 100% of people don't fully understand their motives, and 5% may genuinely be motivated by theology.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563336 - 08/21/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That's a ridiculous view of people. Everyone is just walking around acting, blind to their 'true' motivations and rationalizing away. Totally asinine.

So let me get this straight. The vast majority of ISIS will cite their religion as their motivation. Not a single one of them is actually aware of their true motivation, but 5% just happen to be right? You're ridiculous.

If no one is aware of their true motivations, then what is the difference between someone telling you their motivation and not telling you? Either way their true motivation remains unknown, unless their rationalization happens to be the same as their actual motivation. But how do we know when that is the case? If no one knows their true motivations, then how are we supposed to know the motivations of others? Are you trying to say that it is actually easier to divine the true motivations of another than oneself?


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563369 - 08/21/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:yoda2:

Now you begin to understand


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563385 - 08/21/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lolwut:

That's not an answer to any of the questions I posed about your silly theory. Here just answer this one:

Are you trying to say that it is actually easier to divine the true motivations of another than oneself?

If your answer is no, then you should probably stop going around making claims such as:

Quote:

but the reality is going to be socio-economic.




If the answer is yes, I'll just have to say GTFO with that nonsense.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563396 - 08/21/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

To your first group of questions, you're better off pondering this basic concept for yourself.

Regarding the second question, its circumstantial.
We all have limited awareness, some are more evolved than others in various ways
Some are more or less difficult to comprehend at various times

There's no clean answer


On the other hand
It is safe to say Islam did not suddenly change, the situation in the ME changed


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563414 - 08/21/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can't just come out with some nonsense like the vast majority of people don't understand their own motivations and claim it is a 'basic concept' as if it is self evident. It kind of throws a wrench into all basic human interaction and calls for some justification.

What if it were the case that ISIS wrote an article claiming that their motivation was purely your pet 'socio-economics' theory? Would you be here right now arguing that we can't really believe them because they just aren't aware what their true motivations are, or would you take them at their word?


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563427 - 08/21/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
You can't just come out with some nonsense like the vast majority of people don't understand their own motivations and claim it is a 'basic concept' as if it is self evident. It kind of throws a wrench into all basic human interaction and calls for some justification.

What if it were the case that ISIS wrote an article claiming that their motivation was purely your pet 'socio-economics' theory? Would you be here right now arguing that we can't really believe them because they just aren't aware what their true motivations are, or would you take them at their word?




As I said, no one understands all of their motivations, most understand very little.
This is pretty self-evident, I don't care to break down the idea into hundreds of examples.
Agree or disagree, consider it or don't.

I would agree with them, but that's besides the point.
Mr.Harris claimed they were speaking directly of their motives, I contradicted him, otherwise there would likely be no need to bring this up.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563467 - 08/21/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No one understands all their motivations =/= the vast majority of people don't understand their motives at all. Which is it? Because one sounds a lot less idiotic than the other. Why don't you take a minute and consider what a shit show human interaction would be if no one understood their true motivations and we therefore couldn't trust what anyone says their motivations are.

How do you know that they aren't speaking directly of their motivations unless you do indeed think it is easier to see the true motives of another than of yourself? Mind you, the motivations of a huge group of people you have never met whose actions make sense given the motivations they claim and do not make sense given your 'socio-economic' motivations. I don't see any other socio-economically fucked up people acting a fool on a grand scale. What could be the relevant factor? Hmmm...

Shit, let's get ISIS on the phone, we have random shroomerite here to lecture them about their true motivations.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563486 - 08/21/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
No one understands all their motivations =/= the vast majority of people don't understand their motives at all. Which is it? Because one sounds a lot less idiotic than the other.




My line was: no one understand their motives, and most understand very little. It was never intentionally implied that anyone lacks total awareness of the motives of all of their actions.

There isn't even enough time to process the beginnings of what could motivate the majority of actions we take.


Quote:

Why don't you take a minute and consider what a shit show human interaction would be if no one understood their true motivations and we therefore couldn't trust what anyone says their motivations are.




Why don't you? :lol: the shit show that human interactions are and have been, lend my observation credence.



Quote:

How do you know that they aren't speaking directly of their motivations unless you do indeed think it is easier to see the true motives of another than of yourself? Mind you, the motivations of a huge group of people you have never met whose actions make sense given the motivations they claim and do not make sense given your 'socio-economic' motivations.




What can be understood and how clearly, by whom, is circumstantial.
In this instance, I can clearly see through the issue, and care not for your opinion.


Quote:

I don't see any other socio-economically fucked up people acting a fool on a grand scale. What could be the relevant factor? Hmmm...




Then you see very little.


Quote:

Shit, let's get ISIS on the phone, we have random shroomerite here to lecture them about their true motivations.




:lol: I'll pass on the yelling contest.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563518 - 08/21/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alright bro, have fun with your self-admitted greatly limited understanding of your own motivations and simultaneous ability to "clearly see through the issue" of the claimed motivations of a massive group of people. Truly silly.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563532 - 08/21/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Alright bro, have fun with your self-admitted greatly limited understanding of your own motivations and simultaneous ability to "clearly see through the issue" of the claimed motivations of a massive group of people. Truly silly.




When you argue for the sake of arguing, you learn very little from it.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563554 - 08/21/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing. I was arguing because you were making ridiculous statements left and right.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563560 - 08/21/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing. I was arguing because you were making ridiculous statements left and right.




Your motives were apparently unclear to yourself.

As you misquoted me enough to indicate a lack of attentiveness, I take this as evidence you were not truly interested in the content of the argument, merely the argument itself. I could say more but you're not likely to read it :shrug:


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563581 - 08/21/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lol, get real. I didn't misquote you. You were entirely unclear in what you were trying to say. You stated in a few different ways some version of "people don't understand their true motivations". To what extent? You say some people are able to understand their true motivations better than others, so obviously there is a spectrum of motivation understanding. How do you know where a person is on that spectrum and when they do indeed understand their true motivations? Is it when their stated motivations line up with what you assume their motivations to be despite what they claim? How do you or anyone else go about divining the true motivations of another? Why is this process not applicable by those people to their own motivations since you apparently think one can more successfully determine the true motivations of another. Your whole theory makes no sense and your condescending proclamations as to its self evidence are not helping your case. But by all means continue to paint me as if I am not engaging with what you are truly saying.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563604 - 08/21/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Lol, get real. I didn't misquote you. You were entirely unclear in what you were trying to say. You stated in a few different ways some version of "people don't understand their true motivations". To what extent? You say some people are able to understand their true motivations better than others, so obviously there is a spectrum of motivation understanding. How do you know where a person is on that spectrum and when they do indeed understand their true motivations? Is it when their stated motivations line up with what you assume their motivations to be despite what they claim? How do you or anyone else go about divining the true motivations of another? Why is this process not applicable by those people to their own motivations since you apparently think one can more successfully determine the true motivations of another. Your whole theory makes no sense and your condescending proclamations as to its self evidence are not helping your case. But by all means continue to paint me as if I am not engaging with what you are truly saying.




:lol:  you call me condescending while throwing out insults in every post, amusing.

Again you misconstrue my very simple argument, which I have intentionally kept very simple and open, because there is no cut and dry answer for these questions. It is all circumstantial.

I don't doubt your intelligence, but to me it appears you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
:shrug:  A small example of this concept which is virtually omnipotent as it applies to all of our thoughts and actions, which each stem from a multitude of subtle emotional motives. The meta examples (such as joining a war) are no different.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563636 - 08/21/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You claiming your argument is simple doesn't negate the legitimate questions it engenders. You can't just fob a "the answers are all just circumstantial" at me and expect me to take the theory seriously. But whatever, I guess we all just live in a miasma of emotions and influences, blindly acting according to the cumulative disturbances they have upon us, never truly understanding why it is that we are doing what we are doing. Noice.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563640 - 08/21/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:

I guess we all just live in a miasma of emotions and influences, blindly acting according to the cumulative disturbances they have upon us, never truly understanding why it is that we are doing what we are doing.




:yoda2:

Begin to understand you do.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563649 - 08/21/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:justno:


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563653 - 08/21/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
:justno:




You say no no no, but somewhere in the back of your mind...  :yesnod:


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563656 - 08/21/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Also, there's no way Yoda would agree with your theory.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563661 - 08/21/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Also, there's no way Yoda would agree with your theory.




Yoda is a fictional character, I'm not going to argue about It's alleged opinions


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563676 - 08/21/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There's no argument to be had. He wouldn't agree. Also, arguing about the opinions of fictional characters is a perfectly legitimate enterprise. What they do makes their world view manifest.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563680 - 08/21/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
There's no argument to be had. He wouldn't agree. Also, arguing about the opinions of fictional characters is a perfectly legitimate enterprise. What they do makes their world view manifest.




Well this question does kind of come up, but I'm not into Star Wars enough to really get into it.

Also don't view Yoda or George Micheal's (whatever his name is) with the kind of respect to care.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563715 - 08/21/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

George Michael has some good songs.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563717 - 08/21/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

He also gives good head

:feelsgoatman:


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563728 - 08/21/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:whateveryousayfreak:


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