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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563385 - 08/21/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lolwut:

That's not an answer to any of the questions I posed about your silly theory. Here just answer this one:

Are you trying to say that it is actually easier to divine the true motivations of another than oneself?

If your answer is no, then you should probably stop going around making claims such as:

Quote:

but the reality is going to be socio-economic.




If the answer is yes, I'll just have to say GTFO with that nonsense.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563396 - 08/21/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

To your first group of questions, you're better off pondering this basic concept for yourself.

Regarding the second question, its circumstantial.
We all have limited awareness, some are more evolved than others in various ways
Some are more or less difficult to comprehend at various times

There's no clean answer


On the other hand
It is safe to say Islam did not suddenly change, the situation in the ME changed


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563414 - 08/21/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can't just come out with some nonsense like the vast majority of people don't understand their own motivations and claim it is a 'basic concept' as if it is self evident. It kind of throws a wrench into all basic human interaction and calls for some justification.

What if it were the case that ISIS wrote an article claiming that their motivation was purely your pet 'socio-economics' theory? Would you be here right now arguing that we can't really believe them because they just aren't aware what their true motivations are, or would you take them at their word?


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563427 - 08/21/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
You can't just come out with some nonsense like the vast majority of people don't understand their own motivations and claim it is a 'basic concept' as if it is self evident. It kind of throws a wrench into all basic human interaction and calls for some justification.

What if it were the case that ISIS wrote an article claiming that their motivation was purely your pet 'socio-economics' theory? Would you be here right now arguing that we can't really believe them because they just aren't aware what their true motivations are, or would you take them at their word?




As I said, no one understands all of their motivations, most understand very little.
This is pretty self-evident, I don't care to break down the idea into hundreds of examples.
Agree or disagree, consider it or don't.

I would agree with them, but that's besides the point.
Mr.Harris claimed they were speaking directly of their motives, I contradicted him, otherwise there would likely be no need to bring this up.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563467 - 08/21/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No one understands all their motivations =/= the vast majority of people don't understand their motives at all. Which is it? Because one sounds a lot less idiotic than the other. Why don't you take a minute and consider what a shit show human interaction would be if no one understood their true motivations and we therefore couldn't trust what anyone says their motivations are.

How do you know that they aren't speaking directly of their motivations unless you do indeed think it is easier to see the true motives of another than of yourself? Mind you, the motivations of a huge group of people you have never met whose actions make sense given the motivations they claim and do not make sense given your 'socio-economic' motivations. I don't see any other socio-economically fucked up people acting a fool on a grand scale. What could be the relevant factor? Hmmm...

Shit, let's get ISIS on the phone, we have random shroomerite here to lecture them about their true motivations.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563486 - 08/21/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
No one understands all their motivations =/= the vast majority of people don't understand their motives at all. Which is it? Because one sounds a lot less idiotic than the other.




My line was: no one understand their motives, and most understand very little. It was never intentionally implied that anyone lacks total awareness of the motives of all of their actions.

There isn't even enough time to process the beginnings of what could motivate the majority of actions we take.


Quote:

Why don't you take a minute and consider what a shit show human interaction would be if no one understood their true motivations and we therefore couldn't trust what anyone says their motivations are.




Why don't you? :lol: the shit show that human interactions are and have been, lend my observation credence.



Quote:

How do you know that they aren't speaking directly of their motivations unless you do indeed think it is easier to see the true motives of another than of yourself? Mind you, the motivations of a huge group of people you have never met whose actions make sense given the motivations they claim and do not make sense given your 'socio-economic' motivations.




What can be understood and how clearly, by whom, is circumstantial.
In this instance, I can clearly see through the issue, and care not for your opinion.


Quote:

I don't see any other socio-economically fucked up people acting a fool on a grand scale. What could be the relevant factor? Hmmm...




Then you see very little.


Quote:

Shit, let's get ISIS on the phone, we have random shroomerite here to lecture them about their true motivations.




:lol: I'll pass on the yelling contest.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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I'm a teapot

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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563518 - 08/21/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alright bro, have fun with your self-admitted greatly limited understanding of your own motivations and simultaneous ability to "clearly see through the issue" of the claimed motivations of a massive group of people. Truly silly.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563532 - 08/21/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Alright bro, have fun with your self-admitted greatly limited understanding of your own motivations and simultaneous ability to "clearly see through the issue" of the claimed motivations of a massive group of people. Truly silly.




When you argue for the sake of arguing, you learn very little from it.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563554 - 08/21/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing. I was arguing because you were making ridiculous statements left and right.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563560 - 08/21/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing. I was arguing because you were making ridiculous statements left and right.




Your motives were apparently unclear to yourself.

As you misquoted me enough to indicate a lack of attentiveness, I take this as evidence you were not truly interested in the content of the argument, merely the argument itself. I could say more but you're not likely to read it :shrug:


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563581 - 08/21/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lol, get real. I didn't misquote you. You were entirely unclear in what you were trying to say. You stated in a few different ways some version of "people don't understand their true motivations". To what extent? You say some people are able to understand their true motivations better than others, so obviously there is a spectrum of motivation understanding. How do you know where a person is on that spectrum and when they do indeed understand their true motivations? Is it when their stated motivations line up with what you assume their motivations to be despite what they claim? How do you or anyone else go about divining the true motivations of another? Why is this process not applicable by those people to their own motivations since you apparently think one can more successfully determine the true motivations of another. Your whole theory makes no sense and your condescending proclamations as to its self evidence are not helping your case. But by all means continue to paint me as if I am not engaging with what you are truly saying.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23563604 - 08/21/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Lol, get real. I didn't misquote you. You were entirely unclear in what you were trying to say. You stated in a few different ways some version of "people don't understand their true motivations". To what extent? You say some people are able to understand their true motivations better than others, so obviously there is a spectrum of motivation understanding. How do you know where a person is on that spectrum and when they do indeed understand their true motivations? Is it when their stated motivations line up with what you assume their motivations to be despite what they claim? How do you or anyone else go about divining the true motivations of another? Why is this process not applicable by those people to their own motivations since you apparently think one can more successfully determine the true motivations of another. Your whole theory makes no sense and your condescending proclamations as to its self evidence are not helping your case. But by all means continue to paint me as if I am not engaging with what you are truly saying.




:lol:  you call me condescending while throwing out insults in every post, amusing.

Again you misconstrue my very simple argument, which I have intentionally kept very simple and open, because there is no cut and dry answer for these questions. It is all circumstantial.

I don't doubt your intelligence, but to me it appears you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
:shrug:  A small example of this concept which is virtually omnipotent as it applies to all of our thoughts and actions, which each stem from a multitude of subtle emotional motives. The meta examples (such as joining a war) are no different.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563636 - 08/21/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You claiming your argument is simple doesn't negate the legitimate questions it engenders. You can't just fob a "the answers are all just circumstantial" at me and expect me to take the theory seriously. But whatever, I guess we all just live in a miasma of emotions and influences, blindly acting according to the cumulative disturbances they have upon us, never truly understanding why it is that we are doing what we are doing. Noice.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563640 - 08/21/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:

I guess we all just live in a miasma of emotions and influences, blindly acting according to the cumulative disturbances they have upon us, never truly understanding why it is that we are doing what we are doing.




:yoda2:

Begin to understand you do.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563649 - 08/21/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:justno:


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563653 - 08/21/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
:justno:




You say no no no, but somewhere in the back of your mind...  :yesnod:


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563656 - 08/21/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Also, there's no way Yoda would agree with your theory.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563661 - 08/21/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Also, there's no way Yoda would agree with your theory.




Yoda is a fictional character, I'm not going to argue about It's alleged opinions


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23563676 - 08/21/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There's no argument to be had. He wouldn't agree. Also, arguing about the opinions of fictional characters is a perfectly legitimate enterprise. What they do makes their world view manifest.


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Re: Dabiq, What Muslems Really Want and Why they Hate Us-Sam Harris(40 min video) [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23563680 - 08/21/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
There's no argument to be had. He wouldn't agree. Also, arguing about the opinions of fictional characters is a perfectly legitimate enterprise. What they do makes their world view manifest.




Well this question does kind of come up, but I'm not into Star Wars enough to really get into it.

Also don't view Yoda or George Micheal's (whatever his name is) with the kind of respect to care.


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