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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Hopefully someone can help
#23558431 - 08/19/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ethnobotanical brain trust enlightenment needed. Been growing cacti 7-8 years, every year has gotten better and better until this year. A strange sickness has started to overtake the garden, it seems to have picked up pace significantly in the last month and spread to new cacti. Repotted all the cacti in a mixture of perlite, coarse sand, composted cow manure, soil, and just a touch of lime this spring. Watering, feeding, sun has all been at regular intervals as it has in the past. (Though a large amount of rain the past few days.) Also it seems this year many of my new repotting of established plants and cuttings have no back bone and are flopping over. I'm not so much worried about that as I am this sickness. It's a light brown/tan scabbing that is growing on the lower 2/3 of the plant. This scabbing is random, growing, hard (cannot readily be scrapped off and when so it exposes raw green cactus flesh). The cactus are not plump frim but they are not overly squishy in these areas. So far none of the pedro have died but I feel it is coming. One achuma 1 or 2 years ago developed something akin to this and died. Now another got the same achuma sickness and is near dead. I have sprayed with insect neem oil a few times. The other day I saw 1 tiny bug that might have been a Miterrible but other than that I cannot see any insects. On a positive note my kratom tree and cuttings are doing great.
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the_r3dz
Trich Propagator


Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 5,709
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It looks like they got sprayed with something nasty! Have you sprayed any chemicals around them or anything?
That bridgesii stand is absolutely amazing! I'm sorry that you're having such troubles
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: the_r3dz]
#23558474 - 08/19/16 09:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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No chemicals, besides the neem oil a few times. It's been getting worse over time. The bridgesii is my favorite, grew it from seed. The plague is starting to infect it as you can see in the picture, it was not there a week ago.
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the_r3dz
Trich Propagator


Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 5,709
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I've heard that if you use neem oil during the day it can burn your plants and that there are two types of neem and one of them also burns trichs
I'll look into it a bit deeper and try to find the specifics
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: the_r3dz]
#23558497 - 08/19/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Applied the neem at dusk each time with proper concentration. I sprayed them because of the brown infection, definitely not chemical burn. Never had anything like this before. The other types of cacti, succulents, palms, kratom, fruit trees, oak trees, garden veggies are healthy. Only the bridgesii, pedros, Peruvians are in trouble.
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theMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Yes definitely don't spray Neem during the day. This looks like it could be spider mite damage. I'd like someone else to confirm, but in the meantime are you sure you don't see tiny little bugs? Look with a magnifying glass if you've got one handy.
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: theMallacht]
#23558547 - 08/19/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll check tomorrow, I have a magnifying glass. If I do seem them how do I go about getting rid of them? All in all there's 60+ pedros, bridgesii, torches. Have yet to taste the fruit of my labors even after all these years of cultivation.
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theMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
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I would start off by spraying the sides of them as hard as possible with the hose to try to physically dislodge the majority of them. Then, as r3dz said spray your Neem when the sun isn't up. I like doing it right after nightfall that way it's a little cooler and the spray doesn't evaporate right away.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: theMallacht]
#23558579 - 08/19/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dont know but ive had bridgesii go theough the same and just grow out of it. Even my in ground TBM got it and the. It just went away. Ive found you cant do anything really. If you see no bugs that shit is internal.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
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theMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Yeah I agree. Definitely make sure you actually see the bugs before using any kind of insecticide. Even something as supposedly benign as Neem. Cacti skin tends to be very sensitive, oftentimes sprays do more harm than good.
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: theMallacht]
#23558620 - 08/19/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've sprayed them a few times awhile back. It might have slowed down just a little but in the past few weeks it's gotten worse. I'll take a glass to them tomorrow and peep it out then spray accordingly. Does anyone with experience have any recommendations as to the best insecticide. I don't care what the price tag, I need these babies healthy before I sow a TON of seeds.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Use insecticidal soap. That usually cures things around here. I use the safe brand soap. Yoi can find it at walmart and if not lowes or home depot. I cured some whiteflies and those asian psyllids on my citrus tree if that helps. But be smart about it. Use late in the day and do a small area.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Methadone
Opiate



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 726
Loc: El Sur
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I got similar burn on my plants once from using neem. I've never seen spider mites attack old growth like that but leave new growth alone, every time I've seen them they always seem to prefer the soft new growth. I've seen scale do that from systemic infection but I dont see any on your plants. Regardless, the fact that it appeared and has spread to other plants in recent months would raise concern.
If it is spider mites I always used Bayer Systemic insecticide. Every other pest I've encountered I could manage with soap or oil but spider mites required the heavy artillery.
Have you transplanted all of the scarred specimens recently? The spines will wound them like that and theyll cork over.
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 1,851
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 6 years, 26 days
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: Methadone]
#23559103 - 08/20/16 03:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Like people, cacti can catch viruses. And like people, some they can recover from, some not. I must confess I have never seen anything quite like this. My commiserations - hope they get better.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: Spanishfly]
#23561023 - 08/20/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Made a couple hour trip today to the cactus king. He said it looks like a fungus due to stink bugs.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Cactus king?
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 1,851
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 6 years, 26 days
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Fungus? Virus? OK so what is the owner going to do about it??
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: Spanishfly]
#23562597 - 08/21/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Large cactus center in Houston..talked to the owner hes been cultivating since 83'..talk about a ton of cacti. Basically stink bugs took shits in my cactus when I took cutting and repotted and combined with an extreme amount of rain the fungus is amoung us. That's what he thinks without seeing it 1st hand. Systematic bacterial, fungus, insect, killers will be used. Basically bring out the heavy stuff..I have nothing to lose.
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



Registered: 03/19/12
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Quote:
pinedownpioneer said: Large cactus center in Houston..talked to the owner hes been cultivating since 83'..talk about a ton of cacti. Basically stink bugs took shits in my cactus when I took cutting and repotted and combined with an extreme amount of rain the fungus is amoung us. That's what he thinks without seeing it 1st hand. Systematic bacterial, fungus, insect, killers will be used. Basically bring out the heavy stuff..I have nothing to lose.
Never seen anything quite like this. Do let us know how you get on, but I am not hopeful.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
Edited by Spanishfly (08/22/16 05:15 AM)
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: Spanishfly] 1
#23565052 - 08/22/16 04:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Applying a cure for everything that may be is a sure recipe for disaster, now or in the near future. When a disease hits that hard, seldom will a single application of a remedy solve the problem - what are you going to do, keep applying insecticides, fungicides, miticides, etc. until everything clears? You'll be creating a whole new set of problems for you and your neighbours.
First things first: isolate the affected plants from the general population. You don't want it spreading around, and if it turns out you can't fight and plants will die ([sh]it happens), at least you will have salvaged something.
Second, decide on a possible cause and treat for it. Do you and your friend think fungal? Good, go for it. But remember that when you say "a fungus did this" is more or less the same as saying "an animal did this" - it could be a mouse, a worm, a mite or an insect. Each organism has a very specific sensitivity, and fungi are no different. Try taking a plant or some pictures to a specialized agricultural supplies shop and talk to the guy in charge of the chemicals, maybe he knows of a "broad spectrum" product you can use. If it is fungal, you may have to try a good number of products before you hit the right one (supposing you ever will).
If it was me, I'd probably destroy (read: burn) the affected plants and improve growing conditions. If some days of rain bring an outburst such as this to your collection, you are missing on sheltering and ventilation. Eventually think about spacing the plants apart, to minimize contagion possibility.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh and bring no good news, but sometimes you have to sacrifice a part of your collection to save the rest.
Good luck.
(have you cut through an affected stem? Is it exclusively superficial or has it spread into the core of the plants?)
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: LSoares]
#23565211 - 08/22/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Underneath the brown/tan skin the flesh is healthy and green. I'm going to spray on a weekly basis. The handful of uninfected cacti have been moved as far away as possible. I really do not have anything to lose if it kills the cacti or does not work..seeing that they are in jeopardy anyways. Ill post up what I'm spraying, it targets a wide variety of bacteria, algae, and fungus. I'm sure it will kill good bacteria in the soil so I'll have to take care of that once all is said and done. If the fungus does not die I'll destroy all my crop, dispose or sterilize the soil and disinfect the pots. Then start over with cuttings and a few hundred seeds. I have the works of a large green house shaping up, large enough to house hundreds of my green friends and start veggies earlier in the spring.
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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That is a wise plan. But bear in mind that any product that claims to target bacteria, fungi and algae is, at best, ineffective. At worst, it will kill your plants too.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: LSoares]
#23565234 - 08/22/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good stuff that everyone else has suggested, but I wanted to say, give you plants plenty of room wherever they're at, don't crowd them together. That way if one plant gets some funky funk of some type, they all wont go down.
I try to mix my cacti in with my other leafy plants, and not have them all lumped together, give plenty of room between plants for airflow.
Quote:
LSoares said: That is a wise plan. But bear in mind that any product that claims to target bacteria, fungi and algae is, at best, ineffective. At worst, it will kill your plants too.
Tragic. Why God, why!
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: Lucis]
#23568212 - 08/23/16 06:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm using Consan triple action 20. I'll let yall know how it goes. Despite the plague most are still growing very healthy up top and even sending out new pups. Planted about 50 sago palm seeds not long ago, most are rooted and/or sending up growth. The 60 aloe plants I transplanted are booming as usual. I'll have a ton of canary island date palm seeds to plant soon.
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mutant
Cynic

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 174
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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this seems to be either the typical (propably symbiotic) bacterium that lives within many clones of trichocerei but also cerei, which is also very common with bridgesii (in fact most reports say it hits bridgesii harder than otehr species)
or a pest-insect like I am having from time to time, but it prefers tips and not older growth. I dont think its spider mite.
if this think happened within few days and aggrevated by lots of rain, its proably it.. the bacterium, often called "black rot"
Didn't you see black spots, sometimes oozing with a black liquid before they became tan?
If I am right, it cant be healed, you only have to protect it from wetness during the crisis, and perhaps apply something fungicide in an extreme case, but I never had a reel bad infection
Edited by mutant (08/23/16 07:41 AM)
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theMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: LSoares]
#23568832 - 08/23/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSoares said: Applying a cure for everything that may be is a sure recipe for disaster, now or in the near future. When a disease hits that hard, seldom will a single application of a remedy solve the problem - what are you going to do, keep applying insecticides, fungicides, miticides, etc. until everything clears? You'll be creating a whole new set of problems for you and your neighbours.
First things first: isolate the affected plants from the general population. You don't want it spreading around, and if it turns out you can't fight and plants will die ([sh]it happens), at least you will have salvaged something.
Second, decide on a possible cause and treat for it. Do you and your friend think fungal? Good, go for it. But remember that when you say "a fungus did this" is more or less the same as saying "an animal did this" - it could be a mouse, a worm, a mite or an insect. Each organism has a very specific sensitivity, and fungi are no different. Try taking a plant or some pictures to a specialized agricultural supplies shop and talk to the guy in charge of the chemicals, maybe he knows of a "broad spectrum" product you can use. If it is fungal, you may have to try a good number of products before you hit the right one (supposing you ever will).
If it was me, I'd probably destroy (read: burn) the affected plants and improve growing conditions. If some days of rain bring an outburst such as this to your collection, you are missing on sheltering and ventilation. Eventually think about spacing the plants apart, to minimize contagion possibility.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh and bring no good news, but sometimes you have to sacrifice a part of your collection to save the rest.
Good luck.
(have you cut through an affected stem? Is it exclusively superficial or has it spread into the core of the plants?)
This is all excellent advice based around the scientific method. The EG needs more posters like you good sir.
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pinedownpioneer

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: theMallacht]
#23568912 - 08/23/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Definitely not black rot..I've seen that and heals up fast. It has been slowly happening and just recently exploded. The cactus king guy has been growing/selling cacti since 83'...he has many many many 1,000's(10,000+ or close to it) of all different species. Definitely sounded (looked) like he knew what he was talking about/doing.
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Hopefully someone can help [Re: theMallacht]
#23571565 - 08/24/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theMallacht said: The EG needs more posters like you good sir. 
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