|
hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23596353 - 08/31/16 04:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2436308
^ the above article is based on an experiment in 2015 describes how DNA can detect information about its own integrity and transmit that information back to itself, essentially making DNA self-aware.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
|
hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx] 1
#23603505 - 09/02/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Another interesting thing i've noticed...
there have been thousands of level 5 psychedelic trip reports which all describe a "hallucination" in which they experience total ego-death then rapidly reincarnate and progress through every life-form up to and past their current incarnation, to the point where they have a realization of 'being everything that ever was'.
These reports are very similar to recounts of mystical experiences throughout written history.
I have had this experience.
Afterwards, in my experience, the being everything that ever was experience turned into an 'everything-that-ever-was Being', and it seemed the barrier between the inner and outer was completely dissolved in an objective way.
All reality was deeply connected to my thoughts and the synchronicities took on an intelligent personality in reaction to them at quantum entangled speed.
The only way I can describe it, is that it seemed reality became aware that I was aware it was aware.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
Edited by hTx (09/02/16 01:48 AM)
|
hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx] 1
#23603515 - 09/02/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
How is it that this experience is mere hallucination, random meaningless noise, when so many have had it?
And if it is all insanity, its quite an interesting way to go insane, wouldn't you say?
Why would so many people report witnessing the script of evolution on psychedelics or even in non-psychedelic spiritual experiences (akashic records)
It seems psychedelics enable our awareness to operate on a non-local level with non-local intelligences, one of these seems to be DNA, of which we are all mostly robotic slaves to.
This is Jungs "Collective Unconscious", "Indras Net", the "Akashic Records".
It can orchestrate magnificent synchronicity through minute manipulations of its living creations, and i'm not the only one to witness this on a moment-to-moment basis. " I felt then as if I were the first man, the first creature, to know that all this is. The entire world round me was still in its primeval state; it did not know that it was. And then, in that one moment in which I came to know, the world sprang into being; without that moment it would never have been. All Nature seeks this goal and finds it fulfilled in man, but only in the most highly developed and most fully conscious man. " - Carl Jung
“What if it were true that nature speaks in signs and that the secret to understanding its language consists in noticing similarities in shape or in form?” ― Jeremy Narby, The Cosmic Serpent, DNA and the Origins of Knowledge
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
Edited by hTx (09/02/16 02:22 AM)
|
nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23603729 - 09/02/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
A fractal pattern permeating through all
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23604081 - 09/02/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hTx said: How is it that this experience is mere hallucination, random meaningless noise, when so many have had it?
And if it is all insanity, its quite an interesting way to go insane, wouldn't you say?
Why would so many people report witnessing the script of evolution on psychedelics or even in non-psychedelic spiritual experiences (akashic records)
It seems psychedelics enable our awareness to operate on a non-local level with non-local intelligences, one of these seems to be DNA, of which we are all mostly robotic slaves to.
This is Jungs "Collective Unconscious", "Indras Net", the "Akashic Records".
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23605819 - 09/02/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
the reason this thread has seemingly infinite legs like centipedes and millipedes is that the human brain evolved to notice patterns and we project those patterns onto the model of the world that is manufactured by the brain
the obvious fact that both time & space have no imaginable or experiential beginning (or end) will not stop it
that, that which is infinite, (as opposed to 'definite' / aka 'defined') can neither be proved to be random or ordered; that goals, and intelligence, are always related to purpose, which presumes order, which cannot be ascribed to that which is infinite; are all no obstacle to the emotional needs that inspire projection, and manufacture rationalizations.
in the end what is projected is always similar to the Christian and Muslim versions of heaven, where either angles sing forever, or virgins are provided--the new age version would be something equally insipid-- as Mark Twain said (roughly): 'why is it that people imagine heaven to be singing forever, when they can't wait to get out of church on Sunday'...and fuck the neighbor's wife---i suppose... 'Devine intelligence'... really?????????????????? also intelligence only serves to solve problems... does the cosmic intelligence have a problem? is it bored? it would seem the problems and needs are the possession of of those who feel the need to proclaim a belief in aforesaid theory
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23605865 - 09/02/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hTx said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
I have seen the make-believe math from Creationists
The math which I am speaking of came from Murray Eden, an MIT engineer, in the late 60s.
Quote:
Concluded by whom? Certainly not mainstream biologists.
its not usually mainstream biologists who are appalled at the universal acceptance of Darwinism, its usually computer scientists, mathematicians from multiple fields, engineers, quantum physicists, etc. Few trained in biology can or even will try to understand the mathematical impossibilities concerning how life got to where it is today based on strict Darwinism. As well, evolutionary studies are quite specialized within the broad field of biology. Most are taught natural selection in high school or first year college bio classes and never really retouch the subject again unless they choose to specialize in fields especially concerned with evolution. Even those that specialize in evolutionary fields often ignore the emergence of humanity, leaving that to the anthropologists.
Quote:
Links to evidence when home.
I doubt it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6051132
""[A]n opposite way to look at the genotype is as a generative algorithm and not as a blue-print; a sort of carefully spelled out and foolproof recipe for producing a living organism of the right kind if the environment in which it develops is a proper one. Assuming this to be so, the algorithm must be written in some abstract language. Molecular biology may well have provided us with the alphabet of this language, but it is a long step from the alphabet to understanding a language. Nevertheless a language has to have rules, and these are the strongest constraints on the set of possible messages. No currently existing formal language can tolerate random changes in the symbol sequences which express its sentences. Meaning is almost invariably destroyed. Any changes must be syntactically lawful ones. I would conjecture that what one might call "genetic grammaticality" has a deterministic explanation and does not owe its stability to selection pressure acting on random variation." (Murray Eden, "Inadequacies as a Scientific Theory," in Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation of Evolution (Wistar Institute Press, 1966, No. 5), pg. 11) "
Lots of words - no math; and certainly no surprise.
--------------------
|
hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
|
|
I don't know man, you don't seem to have much of a counter-point other than you projecting your own thoughts and protests to fundamentalism.
As said in the OP, I agree with most arguments against the average creationists idea of intelligent design.
You seem to be caught up on the terms; not actually having read anything and rambling on about projections of christian and muslim theology for whatever reason.
I don't care about any of that, nor am I projecting anything, as the inspiration for this thread happened from several direct experiences.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
#23608845 - 09/03/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hTx said: Intelligent Design: I do not like how the term was hijacked by Christian fundamentalists, ...Blah blah.. I know natural selection is a part of the story. I feel however, the concept could be seen as more of a natural filtering of life-forms rather than a selection.
Natural selection occurs after the beneficial mutation/adaption has been created. Meaning it was a specialized adaption written in the code of DNA by DNA prior to the life-form ever encountering the environment.
What are the chances, given complete randomness were true, that DNA would create such specialized adaptions given no 'knowledge' or self-awareness or awareness of the environment. About as likely as a monkey randomly hitting keys on a keyboard and computer and somehow writing an operating system in c++.
What if as DNA grew in complexity throughout time, its collective intelligence did as well? What if DNA possesses some non-local intelligence and self-awareness? What if DNA is able to take information from previous experiences and design a beneficial mutation? What if DNA is the director of its own evolution and the true architect of life?
What if this massive intelligence communicates with us, as suggested by Leary and Wilson, through synchronicity?
ok original some post quotes (above)
u think u can argue from probabality to infere god aka 'intelligence is necessary
as explained, by many, this is plain stupid
if 'God" speaks to u about which stock to buy, or how to be kinder to ur kids who am i to object? more power to u and God - aka 'intelligence'-- but when u try to prove rationally that we should all believe what pleases u based on aka 'cosmic intelligence', all it actually shows is that experentially God aka 'intelligence has no reality in ur life.
finally u mistake all kinds of hopeful ideas ('grew in complexity', 'collective intelligence', 'communicates with us', for evidence of something cosmsically wonderful that we supposedly all need, have been waiting for, and will now save us.
that this thread went on on for over a year, and once again provides no real satisfaction, might maybe lead a person possibly capable of some objectivity to question, what drives behavior that has no possible fruitful result ...supose we all agree with you? what then--- maybe we all exchanged pms to fuck with u? or maybe not? what's the diff?
does god aka 'intelligence' give a shit? the sun roasts us all in a few billion years anyway... if irony of ironies we should last that long after instigating a great world wide species extinction.
amusingly most species are parasites, hardly a triumph of complexity!
although the only thought systems that include humor & paradox, are Taoism and Zen and a little bit of mathematics, a broader view really is possible... but don't take my word for it heaven forbid...
|
nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
although the only thought systems that include humor & paradox, are Taoism and Zen and a little bit of mathematics, a broader view really is possible... but don't take my word for it heaven forbid...
Humor and paradox are part of many more systems than Taoism and Zen. Like you said a broader view really is possible, maybe you should have one. Your statement is very tailored to your beliefs.
Thought systems does not implicate religion exclusively. Btw
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
Edited by nuentoter (09/04/16 05:40 AM)
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: nuentoter]
#23613525 - 09/05/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nuentoter said:
Quote:
laughingdog said:
although the only thought systems that include humor & paradox, are Taoism and Zen and a little bit of mathematics, a broader view really is possible... but don't take my word for it heaven forbid...
Humor and paradox are part of many more systems than Taoism and Zen. Like you said a broader view really is possible, maybe you should have one. Your statement is very tailored to your beliefs.
Thought systems does not implicate religion exclusively. Btw
indeed you may have some good points but like many here you cherry pick what you respond to, taking things out of context, and can't be bothered to flesh out your views or back up your ideas, so in the end you are doing the same thing you accuse me of. Why post if you are in such a hurry? You could just give me a thumbs down - would save you time and be just as insightful.
|
nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
|
|
I don't think that the choice to leave things open ended detracts from the meaning. I could elaborate and go on about the paradoxes of the Bible like:
(II Cor. 12:10) In this passage we see that, of all the apostles, Paul received an abundance of revelation than all the others combined. Paul wrote 14 NT books including Hebrews or about 1/3 of the entire NT! With all his God-given privileges & advantages; there was always the possibility of being proud and over confident. So God allowed a “thorn in his flesh” which kept him lowly and ever dependent in God. Thrice he prayed for removal of the thorn but God said that His grace is ever sufficient. In this Paul rejoiced! Would you like the world to see the power of Christ rest in you? Then serve God faithfully in spite of sickness, trials, troubles. Rejoice in God. We all have weaknesses which God can use to make us aware of our limitations, and keep us humble and useful.
Or the humor of Psalm 37:12-13: “The wicked plot against the righteous, and gnash their teeth at them; but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that their day is coming.”
The same could be said of anyone on either side, I find it amusing that God would take humor in the fact of mortality.
I am not Christian but was raised devoutly. But any religion with any God still created things like the silkie chicken, the proboscis monkey, the fucking platypus. Paradoxical humor, whimsical design.
But I did not see reason for any of this elaboration, for me to lay things out for you. I know your intelligent, just with different views than myself. By me defining meaning I am creating a narrow path of information that I have tailored for you, rather than you funding your own path of information and understanding along your own way. I do not have to back my every statement up with long diatribes about my correctness because I may very well be incorrect, and my path to understanding may not be someone else's. I simply wish to open an eye and provoke looking a little further deeper, broaden horizons through questioning, and opposition.
As for thought systems being religious or a little bit of math, this excludes any atheist who isn't a math buff?
Yeah I cherry picked that statement because I agree for the most part with what you posted but not the part I exclusively quoted. Why wouldn't I cherry pick the point I disagree with when giving a comment about that part?
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Intelligent Design [Re: nuentoter]
#23614257 - 09/05/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nuentoter said: ... Yeah I cherry picked that statement because I agree for the most part with what you posted but not the part I exclusively quoted. Why wouldn't I cherry pick the point I disagree with when giving a comment about that part?
thank you for your thoughtful reply.
It is apparently a mistake on my part to attempt a logical analysis of the OP’s ideas, as folks generally tend to see the trees for the forest, in such a case. So here is the ‘forest’ or ‘birds’ eye’ view of the whole business as I see it:
I am asking: who is the target audience?, and what the point of the thread is for the OP, as he has kept up this, obsessive compulsive, diatribe for years, without ever getting satisfaction.
if the science is right, he should be talking with scientists or collecting his nobel prize. End of story as regards the ’science’, he proposes.
… if he wants to prove the existence of some undefined, but God like ‘intelligence’ he perhaps should consider 4 things:
1) beliefs do not cause mystical experience, or constitute any sort of proof
2) people here already know how to get such experiences without his brand of ‘mythology’ or ‘insight’
3) a tradition at least 2500 years old of meditation, which has stood the test of time, and produces profound experiences ( & is now medically proven to have benefits), also exists.
4) numbers 2 & 3 exist precisely because of number 1: beliefs do not cause mystical experience
The whole multi year effort to prove some supposed deep insight, on the internet, will never give the OP the satisfaction he seeks. If one does a web search for “patterns in the prime numbers”, one will likewise find those who persist, but never get the satisfaction they seek, and are ignored by those who would presumably be the proper target audience if the ideas they wish to spread and possibly get some credit for had any real merit. Searches having to do with ‘Tesla’ and ‘free energy’ show similar patterns.
a few additional considerations:
5) whether he calls it ‘intelligent design’ or not, he hopes science will prove a philosophy or belief system that all should adopt and be benefited by, and such behavior is essentially not only religious, but missionary as well.
5B) Lastly, strangely such behavior seems to be peculiar to some white Christians, (and their groups and foundations) in the USA, and the end result of this is a dumbing down of science textbooks in Oklahoma and Texas. ( Meanwhile some other countries have long been surpassing the USA in education, especially science and math ).
6) While there may or may not be a sacred dimension to life, the attempt to logically prove such a notion seems both self defeating, and logically flawed.
If it was a simple open questioning for the first time, I could see the point of the thread but what is the point of the thread for the OP, since he has kept up this, obsessive compulsive, diatribe for years, without ever getting satisfaction?
No one here can validate his science to his satisfaction. If we all agree with him what then? Should we join him and hold meetings to spread the word? On the contrary if one examines the old thread(s) there are pages and pages of folks pointing out the flaws in his notions.
And mystical notions are a dime a dozen on these forums: ‘parallel universes’, ‘the matrix’, etc. and a dime a dozen in books, movies, Tv etc., so why try, obsessively, to sell us all the same old ‘dog and pony show’ for years? Doesn’t seem a recipe for happiness. On the contrary it seems sad. Perhaps he is simply so caught up in these ideas that he has forgotten what the original purpose of them was. He seems fuzzy in his aims. I don't know his aims. I attempt to consider the alternatives, and find that none of them seem capable of producing a desired result.
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
|
|
Well to design would take intelligence necessarily..so we are left with a quandrum.. or quandry so to speak..we can say that there are parts of the universe that exist without having been created..and then there are parts, via technology...that are created with intelligence behind it..
This comes down to God or some first thought form being having created space..and galaxies...there probably was one first man..who did this..you know if your initiated..
|
|