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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Conciousness [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23562491 - 08/21/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

with some beings having more nimble mental activity than others.




Thank you for finally noticing! :mypleasure:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Conciousness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23562803 - 08/21/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

with some beings having more nimble mental activity than others.




Thank you for finally noticing! :mypleasure:



All the same,  it has no evolutionary impact until after your donation of sperm into the gene pool has had time to make a difference in the whole cloudy mess


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum
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Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #23563008 - 08/21/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
So if were made up of atoms and gluons electrons neutrons quarks and all that small particle business, which is probably fundamentally space time and pure energy? I think? Then why are we conciousness? Does that mean a tree has conciousness to a degree? Or what about an atom? I know there is probably no way to accurately experiment this to find out but its fun to entertain

Also, does every human perceive everything differently? Like we both see the stop sign and it looks red and octagonal but is it really the same to me and you? Or the way a ripple hits water? Or the way a cloud coalesced?

Anywho just some things I'm pondering much love shroomery keep it shroomy




Consciousness is a result of the single Godheads dispersement.

Spirit can exist in anything which is composed of molecular level vibration or is capable of molecular level vibration. This more or less, covers everything that exists.

Spirit can accommodate the very air, manifesting by the playback of a musical recording in which the spirit was originally impressed upon. Music is significant component in what we regard as the 'zeitgeist' - the spirit of the time. Music doesn't just alter ones own spirit.  It transmutates the original spirits vibrations to onself.

Likewise the vibration can be seen as visual flicker and physical spasm (fingers quite often) which occurs to the same frequency as the spiritual realm one wishes to enter.  The same can be said of a shamanic drum which works predominantly with the lower levels.

It's all about vibration and frequency.  The radio analogy in that we can tune into the bands of frequencies is probably the best in existance as a descriptor for this phenomenon.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/21/16 01:17 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Conciousness [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23563048 - 08/21/16 01:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

cloudy mess goes with the territory


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #23563933 - 08/21/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

lol.

And you guys thought I was crazeh.

That is some loose-associating schizophrenic word salad right thur. :sun:


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23564094 - 08/21/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Humans
Meat Robots


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleruaware
Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 383
. [Re: viktor]
    #23564224 - 08/21/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


Edited by ruaware (12/05/16 11:35 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Conciousness [Re: ruaware]
    #23564399 - 08/21/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

All organisms are conscious but not all organisms have developed a conscience.

Everything down to viruses and their RNA are conscious in the sense that they have an external awareness and can respond rather than only react.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23564432 - 08/21/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Some think consciousness comes before matter
Some think matter comes before consciousness
some wonder what it is
some wonder why it is
some think everything is conscious

but I wonder both:  what  it is  that is conscious
and how consciousness functions and changes constantly.

if there is no self, is consciousness even possible?
if there is awareness of awareness, must there also be awareness of the self that is being aware??

there are those who want to say even atoms are conscious,
but they are, mostly, space and made of elementary particles, whose speed is almost the speed of light, whose manifestation is probabilistic, and then even those particles, are made of even tinier quarks. What could it possibly mean to say they are conscious?

In any case at the scale of humans and animals. There is always a self associated with having some conscious awareness.
Even in a dream, the dream self, experiences emotions, has goals, and responds to the story.
(Amusingly we even have folks saying: " I had an experience of ego loss!")

So it seems to me not very useful to speculate, about 'ultimate reality' without grounding the discussion, in what humans normally experience.

Because when it comes to 'ultimate reality'  folks take different view points, can't prove them and can't use those view points meaningfully. But if we look at  what humans normally experience, we can find some  useful data.

Since there is always a self associated with having some conscious awareness, we have a starting point.

if there is no self, is consciousness even possible?
If one isn't sane, & misinterprets one's perceptions does that count as consciousness?

If a dog has been conditioned to salivate when Pavlov rings the bell, or a pigeon to peck a button to get grain by Skinner, to what degree is it meaningful to infer awareness? Much animal and human behavior is quite similar, and raises the same questions. (Many jobs tend to lower a persons consciousness.)

Scientists attempt to sort this out. From neurologists like Oliver Sacks, and V. S. Ramachandran, to experimenttal psychologists; but whether they start with the brain or behavior, there is always an associated person, self, and story.

So consciousness, as we experience it is tangled up with self, perception, memory, knowledge, environment, motivation or need, intelligence, and the abilities to concentrate and to discriminate subtle ongoing changes in our moment to moment awareness. Some of these factors are possible to cultivate and improve, and others we must accept.


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Offlinesupremeshiva
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Registered: 08/23/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23578516 - 08/26/16 03:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm pretty certain Alan Watts put forward the idea that everything is conciousness. When you hit a tree it  gives off a sound, that sound would be very simple conciousness in his argument.


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Khali who is represented in the most terrible imagery. Khali has a toung hanging out long, drooling with blood. She has fanged teeth. She has a scimitar in one hand and a severed head in the other and she is trampling on the body of her husband who is Shiva.



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InvisibleInto The Woods
Quarantine King
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Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
Re: Conciousness [Re: supremeshiva]
    #23578593 - 08/26/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sound waves. In physics, sound is a vibration that propagates as a typically audible mechanical wave of pressure and displacement, through a medium such as air or water.

That's a pretty redundant argument.


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: Conciousness [Re: supremeshiva]
    #23578617 - 08/26/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

supremeshiva said:
I'm pretty certain Alan Watts put forward the idea that everything is conciousness. When you hit a tree it  gives off a sound, that sound would be very simple conciousness in his argument.




but it is that attitude Alan would not agree with. the presumption humans (some) make that 'their consciousness' is so profoundly superior to a tree, a bird, a worm etc etc (ancient philosophers claimed consciousness was 'masculine' and superior to the feminine-- females, but also associated with the physical body, animals, and nature, and the unconscious)

just think though--without trees and bushes humans cannot live, without humans trees and bushes can live!


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Offlinesupremeshiva
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Registered: 08/23/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Conciousness [Re: zzripz]
    #23579083 - 08/26/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe I phrased myself wrong. Tree's have simple conciousness only because we compare them to us. When you go into to the nature of what a tree is im sure you will find the most marvelous organism and conciousness.

Also, maybe we can't see the tree for what it fully is. So when we tap the tree and it makes a noise that's the only thing that we percieve. The tree on the other hand might have an extraordinary reaction to this event. So I classified it as simple conciousness for two reasons.
1: I compare it to mine
2: I don't know what's happening inside of the tree like I do with me.

These kind of topics are really out of my league but I hope you understand what point im trying to put across.


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Khali who is represented in the most terrible imagery. Khali has a toung hanging out long, drooling with blood. She has fanged teeth. She has a scimitar in one hand and a severed head in the other and she is trampling on the body of her husband who is Shiva.



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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Re: Conciousness [Re: supremeshiva]
    #23579623 - 08/26/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yes.

I just do not feel 'consciousness' to be inside-the-head which is what eg current myth has claimed, eg the brain producing consciousness ('epiphenomenalism'). Alan Watts called this state of affairs, and what it causes people to feel: a 'skin encapsulated ego'
As in, cut off from the environment.He would rather describe what 'we' are as an 'organism~environment'. In effect, you/tree/bird etc are the universe. There's this deeper relationship


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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Conciousness [Re: zzripz]
    #23580658 - 08/26/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:nicesmile:
Quite the conversation going on in here....

There seems to be a lot of perspectives on this issue...
Question : What happens when someone finds more definitive answers?
What do you feel a more definitive answer will take the form of?


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Offlinesupremeshiva
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Registered: 08/23/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Conciousness [Re: iiilil]
    #23581205 - 08/26/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

In this thread answering a question with a question seems more relevant than giving an answer :smile:. That being said, im a beginner at philosophy and study theology. I just tend to enjoy these conversations and see no need for it to be stopped. Even if the thread doesn't lead anywhere.


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Khali who is represented in the most terrible imagery. Khali has a toung hanging out long, drooling with blood. She has fanged teeth. She has a scimitar in one hand and a severed head in the other and she is trampling on the body of her husband who is Shiva.



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Offlinezzripz
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Posts: 8,292
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Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Conciousness [Re: iiilil]
    #23582487 - 08/27/16 04:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iiilil said:
:nicesmile:
Quite the conversation going on in here....

There seems to be a lot of perspectives on this issue...
Question : What happens when someone finds more definitive answers?
What do you feel a more definitive answer will take the form of?





to de-fine limits:

Quote:

define (v.) Look up define at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "to specify; to end," from Old French defenir, definir "to finish, conclude, come to an end; bring to an end; define, determine with precision," and directly from Latin definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de- "completely" (see de-) + finire "to bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" (see finish (v.)). Related: Defined; defining.




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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Conciousness [Re: zzripz]
    #23583752 - 08/27/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

to de-fine limits:

Quote:

define (v.) Look up define at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "to specify; to end," from Old French defenir, definir "to finish, conclude, come to an end; bring to an end; define, determine with precision," and directly from Latin definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de- "completely" (see de-) + finire "to bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" (see finish (v.)). Related: Defined; defining.







There's something in there that stands out to me
:likeaboss:


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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23584439 - 08/27/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MJCS said:
An important note for how the brain produces conciousness it that the braincan withstand various types of electrical surges while maintaining memory and conciousness. The exact scientific data for this is interesting incuding taking a 9volt battery and touching it to your temples with no noticed effect (but dont do this. But if you do do this only make a worth the risk small experiment with a low current sorce like that during a high, but seriously dont do this.) Is a rate of average posts like this OK by the shroomery comunity? can you please email me with information on this. That canada keep exploring comercial is SO FUCKING SCARY (consider hidden messeges)




You'll probably enjoy this then :
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-scientists-use-ultrasound-to-jump-start-a-mans-brain-after-coma

Strides are being made in understanding. Things will be getting juicy before you know it
:nicesmile:


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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Conciousness [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23584668 - 08/27/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MJCS said:
That post by me contained no mathematical 'mojo' whatsoever. This medication and poisoning is terrible.



yeah meng, i was wondering what was going on w/ the language. I was able to read past it though. You're good :smile2: enjoy the article.


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