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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure
    #23552928 - 08/18/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hello.

Just got done preparing a batch of rye berries to be PC'ed, and ended up with sooooo many burst kernels.  I threw the batch away.  My grain prep seems to be a widely accepted method with a high success rate.  What gives?  Please review my procedure so that my next batch will be a success.   

Rye prep
________

1.  Rinsed 7 cups of grains in hot tap water until water was clean.
2.  Soaked grains in hot tap water/coffee, and gypsum for 20 hours.
3.  Drained water after soak, and put berries in a pot with fresh, cold water.
4.  Put the pot on the stove and brought the water to a light boil.  Boiled            for 5- 7 minutes, stirring occasionally.
5.  Strained grains in a colander, and laid them out on a big plastic tote lid with paper towels underneath.

    The end result was terrible.  I would say about 20% of my grains burst.  Nice and dry through.  The only thing I can think of is that I brought the grains up to a boil too quickly??  It only took about 10 - 15 minutes to bring the water to a light boil.  What are your thoughts, Shroomery?


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23552951 - 08/18/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You wanna stop boiling when you notice first signs that your grains are bursting.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23552958 - 08/18/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Don't boil just simmer. A rolling boil will burst soaked rye

Do a 12 hour soak then simmer for 5.
You're just trying to get them hot enough to evaporate better when you lay them out to dry


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23552967 - 08/18/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I slowly bring to a boil on medium-low heat and I don't let it boil for longer than a minute.  After that I immediately dump into a colander and let the steam evaporate off.

All I use is rye. 

Also, I don't know if you did this or not but let the p.c. cool natuarally


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23552972 - 08/18/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think he even made it to PC


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23552976 - 08/18/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just something to keep in mind lol


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23553287 - 08/18/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It was said above but I'll echo it.

Your grains are bursting cause you're actually cooking them.

After the soak, the only reason you get them hot is to help dry the outside.
I pull mine as soon as the water starts to send bubbles up (not even a full boil), drain, and dry.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #23553378 - 08/18/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Have you any photos of the cooked grains, and the dry grains before cooking. Was there a particular brand or where did you get them?

Are you certain they burst or could it have been a high amount of cracked grains.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: blackout]
    #23553421 - 08/18/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I obtained my rye berries from Shroom Supply.  Not sure of the brand, as they came in an unlabeled bag.  There are cracked and broken kernels in the bag, but nothing crazy.  Certainly more than I've noticed in previous purchases though....I have another batch soaking now, will try it again tmw.  Will let all of you know how it goes.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23553588 - 08/18/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can get rye a lot cheaper at health-food stores if you have them in your area.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23553597 - 08/18/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No boiling .... Simmer.... You have the stove heat way to high.


Edited by theGODSmademedoit (08/18/16 02:59 PM)


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: theGODSmademedoit]
    #23553667 - 08/18/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Are there no bulk food stores in your area? I get 2.5 quarts of dry rye grain for like 6 bucks


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23553706 - 08/18/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I get 50 pounds of oats for 12$


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23553723 - 08/18/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:congrats: That's a lot of lbs


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23553736 - 08/18/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23554233 - 08/18/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Talkin about a couple quarts for 6 bucks like that's a deal. :lol:


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Inocuole]
    #23554284 - 08/18/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lol I really thought it was. Had no frame of reference


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23554995 - 08/18/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I rinse my grains about 4-5 times until the water comes off clear. Then I add in like a tablespoon of gypsum, and a cup of liquid coffee and soak for 18-24 hours. I do this all inside my PC. Then, without putting the lid on, I light boil the grains with the water it soaked in for the 24 hours for 10 minutes. I start the timer when I see the water moving. Then I dump into strainers to get the majority of the water to steam evaporate. After I feel like water isn't evaping off, I move the grains from the strainer to a large rectangular deep dish so more surface area is exposed to get the remaining water to evaporate. Then I load up the jars and good to go. I've never had an issue with bursted grains like this. Good luck and happy cultivating!


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23555012 - 08/18/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've got fucking Whole Foods and Campbell's Nutrition center.  Never checked these places for grains.  Just assumed I would get my lips ripped off.  It would be nice to work with something that was available locally and less time consuming and expensive as rye berries.  I see a lot of folks on here use WBS for spawn.  How well does WBS perform comparatively?  Saw a 40# bag of it at Home Depot the other day for $20.  And oats???  I didn't know oats was a thing for mycology.....interesting.  It would seem that rye berries are the industry standard for cultivation.  I wonder why that is?


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23555063 - 08/18/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You should just get what's cheapest and easiest. If you prep it right, any grain will work.
Rye berries are nice though. They also tend to be fairly clean IME. WBS can be hit or miss, so you should check the ingredients for more starchy grains like corn/cracked corn, hulled sunflowers, etc. You don't want your grains to get too sticky after hydration. That's one of the reasons we add gypsum, btw. So the grains don't stick together as much.

With sclerotia producers, you'll probably want larger grains as they're a bit easier to clean. WBS is awesome for doing G2G, as it offers more transfer points for the myc. All grains have their advantages… that is except popcorn. Don't bother with popping corn.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23555077 - 08/18/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I tried popping corn.  It...sucks....dicks.:thumbdown:


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23556495 - 08/19/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)







    Just got done prepping the second batch of grains.  I did everything else the same, except this time I dialed my heat down and pulled the grains as soon as I noticed "bursting".  This seemed to occur rather early, as the water wasn't quite at a simmer.  The water was maybe 180 degrees F.  All though this batch is a lot better, can't say I'm happy with the results still. 

    After five minutes of fishing, it would appear that all the turds I pulled out of my batch were cracked or broken kernels.  There is no fucking way I should have burst kernels.  I remember simmering grain for 20+ minutes a few years back and only ending with a few burst kernels, if that.

    Is it possible I received a shitty batch of grain?  Not sure I should even bother PC'ing.  If the grain can't survive a brief, gentle bath @ 180F, then I would expect nothing but a shit show in a PC @ 250F for 90 minutes.  Thoughts?


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23556876 - 08/19/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm still a noob myself, but I've done over 50 jars of both rye and WBS the same way and they came out great for spawn, never had any problems after PC, left them at room temp for weeks on a few occasions and they still looked perfect and worked great when I got around to using them.

I soak the grain from 12-24 hours with a little coffee (gone over 30 hours before with no issues), rinse it 5-10 times and then simmer it gently for about 10 minutes. I try to stop before any grains burst, but I've also never had any problems from having a few burst grains in the batch. In my experience the thing that makes the grains sticky and clumpy is the starch on the outside; boiling them very gently for a while actually gets a lot of the starch out, and I skim it off the top and discard it so it won't stick back onto the grains when they're strained. When the grains either start bursting or stop releasing starch (it's a delicate balance) I take it off the heat and pour straight into the strainer, let it strain for maybe 10 minutes while stirring, then after it stops dripping spread it out on some paper towels on tub lids under a box fan, for up to an hour or two if necessary.

Again, whether or not a few of the grains are burst is irrelevant; that just makes it starchier so it's harder to get off all the starch. I find that as long as I remove as much of the starchy liquid as possible from the outside of the grains before they dry, and dry the outside of the grains so it's completely non-sticky to the touch, it always PCs just fine.

Sorry for the wall of text! I've only been growing the shroomies for a year now, but I have been working with grains and making bread my whole life before I started this hobby, and I actually observed this concept many years ago while cooking starchy foods like potatoes and pasta--scooping the starch off while it's cooking makes the food way less sticky and easier to work with. It's only anecdotal evidence but I've seen it work this way for over ten years.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: hobofungus]
    #23557118 - 08/19/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You know, the big pic of the grains you have really doesn't look that bad.  I say use it.  Spend 10 minutes or so picking out the burst grains if it makes you feel better.  And let the outside of the grains dry a bit before you load them. 

If you have a bunch of cracked grains before you even soak it, I'd suggest using another supplier (not through a shroom vendor, their markup is stupid)


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23557134 - 08/19/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I see a lot of people praising WBS, but from the run I did with it, it's messy, they come out sticky, difficult to get just right, etc. Granted, I don't have a lot of experience with them and it should only get better, I followed the tek to the T. So, if I can follow a grain tek and they come out perfectly, but I follow a WBS tek and there's still some perfecting to do....then I'll stick with grains.

A pro about WBS is the inoculation points when you do your G2G. Rye is larger and takes up more space in the jar, but the WBS hits a tons of places at once.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: just_curious]
    #23557192 - 08/19/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Your WBS likely had shelled sunflower seeds or cracked corn.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23557339 - 08/19/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I managed to get all the sunflower seeds out, but on that note, I've also seen people praising cracked corn. Which I found weird because I thought I always read that cracked corn was bad, but apparently some people swear by it??


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: just_curious]
    #23557393 - 08/19/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I find it makes it too starchy for me. I dunno, man. Any shelled grains (aka has no shell anymore) are no bueno IME. Sunflower seeds with the hull are fine though. I don't like corn in general.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23557567 - 08/19/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Pics look like rye to me.  Not sure where wbs came from


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23557614 - 08/19/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
I've got fucking Whole Foods and Campbell's Nutrition center.  Never checked these places for grains.  Just assumed I would get my lips ripped off.  It would be nice to work with something that was available locally and less time consuming and expensive as rye berries.  I see a lot of folks on here use WBS for spawn.  How well does WBS perform comparatively?  Saw a 40# bag of it at Home Depot the other day for $20.  And oats???  I didn't know oats was a thing for mycology.....interesting.  It would seem that rye berries are the industry standard for cultivation.  I wonder why that is?




gee, I dunno.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23558244 - 08/19/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
I've got fucking Whole Foods and Campbell's Nutrition center.  Never checked these places for grains.  Just assumed I would get my lips ripped off.  It would be nice to work with something that was available locally and less time consuming and expensive as rye berries.  I see a lot of folks on here use WBS for spawn.  How well does WBS perform comparatively?  Saw a 40# bag of it at Home Depot the other day for $20.  And oats???  I didn't know oats was a thing for mycology.....interesting.  It would seem that rye berries are the industry standard for cultivation.  I wonder why that is?




gee, I dunno.




Cool, thanks man. :blowme:


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23558268 - 08/19/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was replying to kinetic's silly question. :shrug:
no need to get upset or nothin'.


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23558331 - 08/19/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you everybody for sharing your knowledge and experiences :thumbup:.  I am always learning something new with this hobby.  Probably why I still keep doing it, despite being frustrating as fuck sometimes.  Oh yeah, and I love mushrooms.  I feel that my procedure is solid.  I guess sometimes it's possible to get a shitty bag of rye.  Burst/cracked kernels usually set the stage for contamination.  Fuck that shit.  Gonna toss the bag I have and find a new purveyor for rye berries.  Does anybody have any recommendations for online purveyors if I strike out locally?  Again, thanks and happy cultivating!!


Edited by WeavieWonder (08/19/16 09:27 PM)


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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23558379 - 08/19/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
I was replying to kinetic's silly question. :shrug:
no need to get upset or nothin'.




Oh, we're straight chillin, brah. :rasta:


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: dankington]
    #23558432 - 08/19/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
I was replying to kinetic's silly question. :shrug:
no need to get upset or nothin'.




No need to be rude, either.  OP was asking a question about his rye and all of you derailed the thread with your wbs evaluations. 

damn


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InvisibleThoky.ykoht

Registered: 10/08/13
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure *DELETED* [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23558617 - 08/19/16 10:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Thoky.ykoht

Reason for deletion: .


Edited by Thoky.ykoht (04/17/17 04:54 PM)


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Thoky.ykoht]
    #23558699 - 08/19/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thoky.ykoht said:
Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-oats-50-lb



Never used oats but I definitely bookmarked this.

I use rye allot though, usually soak for 12hours and then simmer for 10 mins. When I go to strain and stir them up, I pick out what bust kernels I see before loading the jars.




Will definitely do some research as I have a few animal feed stores in my area.  Thanks fellas.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23559038 - 08/20/16 02:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Check out the reviews.  You'll notice a certain TC gives their blessing, and a certain Suzie MacPhearson as well, who may be someone in this very thread. :uptosomething:


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Inocuole]
    #23559153 - 08/20/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:


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Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: Kenetic]
    #23569196 - 08/23/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So I purchased some rye berries from a local health food store for a $1.60/#.  Prepared them the same way as the other batches.  Way, way better results this time.  No burst, or cracked kernels.  I picked out a few broken pieces, but that was it.  Better color and everything.  Moral of the story...it is possible to buy a shitty bag of rye berries.  First time I've ever experienced this.:shrug:  Hopefully my patience and persistence will be rewarded with some healthy, fully colonized jars.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Burst rye berries - please help refine my procedure [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23569211 - 08/23/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Grains meant for human consumption tend to work better a lot of the time it seems like.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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