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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: paracelsusgold]
#23555847 - 08/19/16 03:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You use oats as grain spawn . oats are the new favorite because of the nutes are simlar to rye. Hard to burst the grain and by far easiest to break up. I've recently swicth form cracked corn to oats for such reasons. Off topic how long were you in for
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: tump]
#23555860 - 08/19/16 04:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yep, oats are a pretty great grain to use overall.

I did notice they seem to sometimes have more bacteria populations than some other grains like rye or wheat which can create some issues, but I think that's on a per-batch or per-season basis. I've used wheat recently.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23555944 - 08/19/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oats are used as spawn like you would use the rye berries.
Grain spawn is sterilized in jars then inoculated
100% colonized grain spawn is broken up and mixed with substrate
Substrate for cubensis traditionally was manure or straw. Coir was considering casing material only(casing layer)
Substrate like manure or straw must be pasteurized (140-160F core temp for 1 your is mycology pasteurization guidelines)
Coir however can be sterilized without contamination problem.
If you sterilised manure and spawned your grains to it you would never get mushrooms before contamination shows up
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: bodhisatta]
#23555955 - 08/19/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't like oats because if your jar is partially colonized and you need to shake, they clump together too much. Maybe I preped it wrong? 
Burst grains are not something I worry about much with other grains... just cook em right and very few busrt, it's easy for me to hit that mark.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: invitro]
#23555962 - 08/19/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Difficulty breaking up grains is a sign of bacteria, or improperly prepped grains. They shouldn't stick together without the presence of bacteria unless they were straight up starchy, in which case, you can soon expect the presence of bacteria. Basically grain clumping problems all go hand in hand.
Like I said though, endospore count in some of the oats I've tried using was so high I couldn't get agar to leap off onto freshly sterilized grain.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23556009 - 08/19/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The endospores haven't been to bad . even without bacteria problems cracked corn fully colonized is a bicth to break apart. Yeilds are less with oats for me. The plan soaking method works well for all grains beside wild bird seed . I'm sure op will come to ask soon.
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: tump]
#23556098 - 08/19/16 07:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: You use oats as grain spawn . oats are the new favorite because of the nutes are simlar to rye. Hard to burst the grain and by far easiest to break up. I've recently swicth form cracked corn to oats for such reasons. Off topic how long were you in for
hello tump may I ask what the ratio is for water/oats as compared to water/grain? oats are cheaper probably. does the spawn become as contaminated as with rye grain? I served one year at downstate prison and fishkill prison (work release there) both across the hwy from each other close to the Hudson near the city and Poughkeepsie and two years on a tight leash probation and I couldn't do much without having to tell them and they could send me back anytime if they wanted for anything. a lot of fun.
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23556103 - 08/19/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rooster Cogburn said: I would still love to see a good pro made compost and coir side by side. This may be irrelevant for cubes since we dry them, but with both Agiricus species and Oyster species the nutrients affects the quality, taste, and shelf life of the fruits, as well as BE in those species. In particular Oysters have a far better taste, fruit quality, and shelf life grown from supplemented sawdust as opposed unsupplemented sawdust or straw. The grain also plays a huge nutritional role in that as well, except for the fact that we try to get away with littlest spawn rate possible which in the end saves a shit ton of money.
rooster how about the size of the shrooms? also what do you supplement the sawdust with?
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: paracelsusgold]
#23556112 - 08/19/16 07:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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That sucks. Anyway oats win no matter how fix them. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21121313/fpart/all/vc/1
The math on how much water they hold is herehttps://mycotopia.net/topic/95338-microbes-oat-prep-tek/
10quarts dry oats holds 45quarts of wet oats
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23556133 - 08/19/16 08:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Yep, oats are a pretty great grain to use overall.

I did notice they seem to sometimes have more bacteria populations than some other grains like rye or wheat which can create some issues, but I think that's on a per-batch or per-season basis. I've used wheat recently.
may I please ask what you use as the water/oats ratio? I would intuitively think that oats would be more prone to contamination just because they are softer than the rye berries?
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: bodhisatta]
#23556144 - 08/19/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Oats are used as spawn like you would use the rye berries.
Grain spawn is sterilized in jars then inoculated
100% colonized grain spawn is broken up and mixed with substrate
Substrate for cubensis traditionally was manure or straw. Coir was considering casing material only(casing layer)
Substrate like manure or straw must be pasteurized (140-160F core temp for 1 your is mycology pasteurization guidelines)
Coir however can be sterilized without contamination problem.
If you sterilised manure and spawned your grains to it you would never get mushrooms before contamination shows up
tc thanks for this info. i really never had much problem with contamination when i got to the planting of the rye berry spawn into whatever animal waste compost that i had made and pasteurized. the worst problem came when i inoculated the rye berries from the petri dishes. i found that the more carefully everything was done and the stronger the strain one was able to isolate in the dishes for transfer, the better everything would work. and i would also put in enough spawn to grow out relatively quickly.
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: invitro]
#23556161 - 08/19/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: Coir is great at holding water and staying fluffy enough for air to penetrate, other than that it's 'nutrition' value is exceptionally low.
You can't culture anything on coir alone, it sits fermenting in ponds for 9 months before packaging, which takes the nutrients out of it, leaving a fiber with a high lignin content behind.
invitro what conclusions can we come to based on these facts? i would really never have thought that one could fruit a mushroom on this coco but apparently folks are doing it?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: paracelsusgold]
#23556232 - 08/19/16 08:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paracelsusgold said: i like to grow things as large as possible and so one proceeds from this desire to create the best possible environment for the mycelium to grow and fruit. i will continue to study these posts more.
Large. Like this?
   
Those were all grown on coir based substrates. The grain spawn used for those varied because I use several different grains depending on the time of year and price. I grew on wheat and oats for ages cause I got them free. Fruit size is dependent on genetics and available water for the most part. But big fruits is not the same as big yield. I would rather have a canopy of 35 gram fruits that totaled 3000 grams than a sparse pinset of 100 gram fruits that totalled 1000 grams. Yield is the true result.
Again wheat spawned to coir/verm
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23556411 - 08/19/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm actually not really sure about water ratios for oats, or any grain for that matter. I usually prep them visually and then load them in the jars after I've checked the inside of them. The outer hull of oats seems to serve as a benefit by sort of shielding the inner mycelium that's colonized the interior of the grain. This seems to lead to oats having a fast recovery time after being shaken or spawned to bulk substrate.
I don't know if it's necessarily the softness of the grain, but all I can say is I did have to move away from oats after I started getting an unbeatable bacterial takeover in every jar. I presently use wheat, prepared much the same way. Both prepared just by simmering the grains and occasionally checking for internal moisture. Takes about 30 minutes on average.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23556426 - 08/19/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah oats are tricky with the bacteria. I had some issues as well. Best results were with LC presumably because I was able to achieve super fast colonization and manage to spawn before the window closed. But wheat rye and millet are my favorites.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23556428 - 08/19/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Still haven't tried millet by itself. As I understand it, it's one of the harder grains to get moisture content right with, correct? Wheat though, I am a huge fan of now, and I haven't used rye in years but I'm sure it's fine too.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23556453 - 08/19/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's a little trickier but I have it so down now I don't even think about it.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23556531 - 08/19/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I do 120m at 17-18psi with oats never noticed a problem in the last 75 pounds I've used
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paracelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: Inocuole]
#23556539 - 08/19/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: I'm actually not really sure about water ratios for oats, or any grain for that matter. I usually prep them visually and then load them in the jars after I've checked the inside of them. The outer hull of oats seems to serve as a benefit by sort of shielding the inner mycelium that's colonized the interior of the grain. This seems to lead to oats having a fast recovery time after being shaken or spawned to bulk substrate.
I don't know if it's necessarily the softness of the grain, but all I can say is I did have to move away from oats after I started getting an unbeatable bacterial takeover in every jar. I presently use wheat, prepared much the same way. Both prepared just by simmering the grains and occasionally checking for internal moisture. Takes about 30 minutes on average.
inoc: thanks for this info. i can provide if you want with exact water/rye berry ratios for qt mason jars and some other grains also. i have found that the exact water content makes the grain just right after sterilization.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: composting is a great challenge for the urban dweller especially and is a science in itself [Re: bodhisatta]
#23556563 - 08/19/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: I do 120m at 17-18psi with oats never noticed a problem in the last 75 pounds I've used
Depends a lot on farming practice I suspect. I had batches that were very clean. Others were a disaster even with 20 psi for 150 min.
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