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Invisibleh0ldthedoor
HODOR
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/25/16
Posts: 510
Loc: North of The Wall
Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold]
    #23552577 - 08/18/16 08:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Diggin' the pics man, love the hair and beard, right on brother!!

:strokebeard:


--------------------
Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

– Petyr Baelish


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: h0ldthedoor]
    #23552594 - 08/18/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Can I get an autographed image to frame up?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: h0ldthedoor]
    #23552599 - 08/18/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Literally not even 5 years ago, every cultivator on here found that a sab is much better than a glove box. one of the biggest reasons tho is flaming your tools, with a sab you can just bring your arms out and flame outside the box. Since flame needs clean air to burn, and hot air rises, it'd be moving a lot of air burning in a glove box. I'd be interested in hearing what you do about flaming tools mr. Ron k.

At least a sab tackles this by having the air move outside the box, and with big arm holes the act of moving your arms in and out causes no piston effect in the box itself. This has been proven by lighting incense in the box, and observing how the smoke moves when you move your arms in and out, as well as all around.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: h0ldthedoor] * 1
    #23552601 - 08/18/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well Ron despite the fact that most of us find a glove box inconvenient compared to a SAB, it's nice to see an old school guy come back advising against open air or promoting excessive use of SHIP and methods like peroxide agar or spores to LC. Those things would elicit scorn.

Only a few years ago the hobby was even more ghetto than it is now, people swore open  air worked or considered agar work difficult. It seemed only a TC would bother with building a SAB or glove box.

Would like to see what you think of current fruiting teks (monotubs). What was your preferred method of fruiting back in the day?


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold]
    #23552610 - 08/18/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey ron!

A flowhood is a cabinet which has a HEPA filter as the front wall and a
blower attached to the top. The blower blows air throgh the filter which
provides a certain amount of resistance causing the air to exit the front
in a laminar flow.

The air that comes out the filter is completely sterile so you can do any
sterile work in front of the flow of air without being limited in movements
like you are when working inside of a box.


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Invisibleh0ldthedoor
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Registered: 06/25/16
Posts: 510
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Mad Season]
    #23552651 - 08/18/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Literally not even 5 years ago, every cultivator on here found that a sab is much better than a glove box. one of the biggest reasons tho is flaming your tools, with a sab you can just bring your arms out and flame outside the box. Since flame needs clean air to burn, and hot air rises, it'd be moving a lot of air burning in a glove box. I'd be interested in hearing what you do about flaming tools mr. Ron k.

At least a sab tackles this by having the air move outside the box, and with big arm holes the act of moving your arms in and out causes no piston effect in the box itself. This has been proven by lighting incense in the box, and observing how the smoke moves when you move your arms in and out, as well as all around.




Ron K. has already addressed flaming tools in his OP. Also, methinks the term Glove Box is being used incorrectly and Ron is actually describing a Still Air Box. As he describes, "an opening for hands", a "small curtain sliding over the opening for the hands" (lending the impression the curtain is blocking the opening for the gloved hands to go through) and he advises to use "tight fitting throwaway gloves". As for drafts, he says "there is no drafts".

But shit, this noob knows he knows nothing. So take my comments with a grain of salt.

Quote:

paracelsusgold said:
one can build their own glovebox which is necessary for inoculation purposes out of plywood and glass quite easily with a liftup top and an opening for hands as well. keep an ionizer in there while working and a small curtain sliding over the opening for the hands. tight fitting throwaway gloves are good. keep a small oil flame in there also for sterilizing tools between innoculations. set the glovebox on a sturdy table near the stove or sterilizer.




Quote:

paracelsusgold said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
Ron, I'd like to hear more about this, but I'd also like to share some of the more "ghetto" ways that we've been growing here for some contrast.

Most people are using still air boxes recently.  They operate on the concept of still air vs a contaminant free environment.  By letting all the contaminants fall to the floor and stick to the walls of the SAB, you can be sure that nothing will fall into your work when you briefly open a jar or agar plate, even if the box itself isn't totally clean.

My SAB, which works great for me, is a modified (not by much) version of this one.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771

I get pretty good results with agar and grain by using it.





I'm interested in the idea of a glove box that actually works, but lately the consensus has been that the possibility of your box creating drafts which could bring contamination into your work when you move the hands/gloves around is high enough to negate the benefit you'd otherwise receive by having it completely closed off to open air.  There's also a lot of talk of flames inside the box creating further updrafts which can cause contamination to ride its way into your work.  I have not tested these theories because they appear sound to me and I get great results the way I do now.  But I'm interested in some examples of a design that doesn't run into these issues or has a way around them.  Is the entire inside of the box sterile?  How can this be accomplished if so?  During work with agar and grain I never do much cleaning of my box or my surroundings, since the still air negates the need for this, so this is a completely different approach.



I wouldn't recommend inoculating in a bathroom, that's the dirtiest room of the house.


dear inoc: i used my glovebox for years and i made it on the design of the one i described. i made it big enough to comfortably work in and i angled the top downward so i could look in easily. i am going to draw a design later or figure out the dimensions for you. this works good. i kept a good ionizer in there that cleans the air. there is no drafts. keep the inside wiped down with bleach. use bleach anywhere you have cultures. also i used to use a speedclave that worked good for petri dishes. use some chipboard for the body of the glovebox as it will be a bit lighter
than plywood and paint it inside and out with oil paint. plexiglass is good for the cover. i always had good clean mycelium and i could isolate a good strain withy these procedures.




--------------------
Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

– Petyr Baelish


Edited by h0ldthedoor (08/18/16 10:21 AM)


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Invisibleparacelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Pastywhyte] * 2
    #23552660 - 08/18/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well Ron despite the fact that most of us find a glove box inconvenient compared to a SAB, it's nice to see an old school guy come back advising against open air or promoting excessive use of SHIP and methods like peroxide agar or spores to LC. Those things would elicit scorn.

Only a few years ago the hobby was even more ghetto than it is now, people swore open  air worked or considered agar work difficult. It seemed only a TC would bother with building a SAB or glove box.

Would like to see what you think of current fruiting teks (monotubs). What was your preferred method of fruiting back in the day?



may i please ask you to describe to me the SAB and how you build them and also what is "SHIP" and also what is "peroxide agar" and "LC" and "TC" mean? also explain please the meaning of monotub. i fully understand that many of you folks do not have resources for many items or space or time even. when i grew mushrooms for years in upstate new york i had good facilities and i did it fulltime. i used the kitchen and bathroom of my apartment at the time for lab work and i had a huge heated basement and two big yards to utilize for growing. i was not interested in trying to cut corners or do things quickly just to get some quick results. organic gardening is my hobby and i enjoy growing things as best as i can.


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Invisibleparacelsusgold

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 173
Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Mad Season]
    #23552664 - 08/18/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Literally not even 5 years ago, every cultivator on here found that a sab is much better than a glove box. one of the biggest reasons tho is flaming your tools, with a sab you can just bring your arms out and flame outside the box. Since flame needs clean air to burn, and hot air rises, it'd be moving a lot of air burning in a glove box. I'd be interested in hearing what you do about flaming tools mr. Ron k.

At least a sab tackles this by having the air move outside the box, and with big arm holes the act of moving your arms in and out causes no piston effect in the box itself. This has been proven by lighting incense in the box, and observing how the smoke moves when you move your arms in and out, as well as all around.



i want to address this later but i have to go out now.


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Invisibleh0ldthedoor
HODOR
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/25/16
Posts: 510
Loc: North of The Wall
Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold]
    #23552671 - 08/18/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paracelsusgold said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well Ron despite the fact that most of us find a glove box inconvenient compared to a SAB, it's nice to see an old school guy come back advising against open air or promoting excessive use of SHIP and methods like peroxide agar or spores to LC. Those things would elicit scorn.

Only a few years ago the hobby was even more ghetto than it is now, people swore open  air worked or considered agar work difficult. It seemed only a TC would bother with building a SAB or glove box.

Would like to see what you think of current fruiting teks (monotubs). What was your preferred method of fruiting back in the day?



may i please ask you to describe to me the SAB and how you build them and also what is "SHIP" and also what is "peroxide agar" and "LC" and "TC" mean? also explain please the meaning of monotub. i fully understand that many of you folks do not have resources for many items or space or time even. when i grew mushrooms for years in upstate new york i had good facilities and i did it fulltime. i used the kitchen and bathroom of my apartment at the time for lab work and i had a huge heated basement and two big yards to utilize for growing. i was not interested in trying to cut corners or do things quickly just to get some quick results. organic gardening is my hobby and i enjoy growing things as best as i can.




SHIP is Self Healing Injection Port, used for inoculation.

Peroxide Agar

LC is Liquid Culture

And TC is Trusted Cultivator, someone given the title/tag because they are a trusted, experienced, cultivator and their advice is generally regarded in higher esteem than users without the title/tag.

Oh and monotub


--------------------
Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

– Petyr Baelish


Edited by h0ldthedoor (08/18/16 09:12 AM)


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InvisiblePsilanthropist
Noob

Registered: 06/23/16
Posts: 66
Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold] * 1
    #23552674 - 08/18/16 09:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paracelsusgold said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well Ron despite the fact that most of us find a glove box inconvenient compared to a SAB, it's nice to see an old school guy come back advising against open air or promoting excessive use of SHIP and methods like peroxide agar or spores to LC. Those things would elicit scorn.

Only a few years ago the hobby was even more ghetto than it is now, people swore open  air worked or considered agar work difficult. It seemed only a TC would bother with building a SAB or glove box.

Would like to see what you think of current fruiting teks (monotubs). What was your preferred method of fruiting back in the day?



may i please ask you to describe to me the SAB and how you build them and also what is "SHIP" and also what is "peroxide agar" and "LC" and "TC" mean? also explain please the meaning of monotub. i fully understand that many of you folks do not have resources for many items or space or time even. when i grew mushrooms for years in upstate new york i had good facilities and i did it fulltime. i used the kitchen and bathroom of my apartment at the time for lab work and i had a huge heated basement and two big yards to utilize for growing. i was not interested in trying to cut corners or do things quickly just to get some quick results. organic gardening is my hobby and i enjoy growing things as best as i can




Still Air Box


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold] * 1
    #23552682 - 08/18/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

SAB = still air box. Uses the principle of still air to ensure CFU's do not fall into your work.

CFU = contamination forming unit.

SHIP = self healing injection port. Used lots for liquid culture  (LC) and spore solution inoculation.

Peroxide agar = doesn't work

TC = Trusted Cultivator. A site designaton given here to help new people find advice and methods endorsed by people who have been proven knowledgeable.

Monotub = a usually clear plastic box that has holes cut into it. We spawn the grain to bulk in the box then dial in the air flow through the holes using poly or some other permiable material.

Monotub



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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Registered: 07/19/16
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: paracelsusgold] * 1
    #23553429 - 08/18/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paracelsusgold said:
Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Great way of approaching that inoc.
Hey Ron, i'm interested if and when laminar flow hoods were implemented when you were growing?



alot of stuff you do not need. stamets used to sell stuff that didnt work and was expensive and when i told him he got pissed off at me. why do you need the flowhood? how much is one?




Hey Ron, I built one for under 400 bucks, I never would have needed one for culture work seeing I was getting away fine in a box, but I got heavily into growing gourmet mushrooms on supplemented sawdust and I have been making sawdust bags supplemented with 20-40% wheat bran, I make about 40 5lb. bags a run and these bags are inoculated with large spawn bags. When I started diving gourmet I couldn't imagine doing that work in an SAB. Now as I am typing this it sounds ridiculous that anyone "needs" one for non commercial work, I am just curious if they were popular during your time?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/18/16 02:14 PM)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23553754 - 08/18/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A hood is more about working comfortably than anything else IMO. Once I built one, I couldn't look back. Thing is that for someone who's one and only hobby is growing mushrooms, $200-300 is not a huge investment for the comfortability that is achieved. I can see that someone who doesn't have a job or has a lot of bills/debts to pay or even has a shitload of other hobbies to pay for might not even care that he has to work in a box, and with good reason since a SAB can still get her done well but it wasn't like that for me.

I have no other interests other than mycology so my mindset was/is, "why shouldn't I opt for the most comfortable shit I am able to buy?" I can't even imagine doing all this in a SAB nowadays.



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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23553782 - 08/18/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Haze, I think you need some bags.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23553849 - 08/18/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Haze....very impressive brotha. :ohyeah:


--------------------


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23553871 - 08/18/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Bags are easy enough to get. A big enough PC isn't :lol:

Oh and as to OP's idea of Stamets, I just couldn't agree more, unfortunately. A simple browse through his online store and you can see that most, if not all, of his items are needlessly overpriced. An item which always comes to mind is the #7 scalpel handle. Instead of calling it a #7 handle, they call it "Paul Stamet's favourite scalpel". What's the difference between the two, you ask? Well, you can buy a #7 for no more than $10 on ebay but it's $20 on Fungi perfecti. Now this alone wouldn't bother me all that much since some people seem to enjoy overpaying, what bothers me is that nowhere in their listing does it say that "Paul Stamet's favourite scalpel" is actually a #7 scalpel handle. For someone who doesn't know any better, it's a scalpel only found on Fungi Perfecti. Seems very deliberate, if you ask me.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23553973 - 08/18/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Bags are easy enough to get. A big enough PC isn't :lol:

Oh and as to OP's idea of Stamets, I just couldn't agree more, unfortunately. A simple browse through his online store and you can see that most, if not all, of his items are needlessly overpriced. An item which always comes to mind is the #7 scalpel handle. Instead of calling it a #7 handle, they call it "Paul Stamet's favourite scalpel". What's the difference between the two, you ask? Well, you can buy a #7 for no more than $10 on ebay but it's $20 on Fungi perfecti. Now this alone wouldn't bother me all that much since some people seem to enjoy overpaying, what bothers me is that nowhere in their listing does it say that "Paul Stamet's favourite scalpel" is actually a #7 scalpel handle. For someone who doesn't know any better, it's a scalpel only found on Fungi Perfecti. Seems very deliberate, if you ask me.




Not to mention the ONE thing that fungi perfecti should have right is their cultures, and I can tell you they suck:thumbdown:
I have both their Enoki and shiitake, and I also have Aloha's 3782 and it blows FP's out of the water, I also have a traded enoki that kicks FP's ass any day.

As far as the bags go, an AA941 can process up to 50 lb.s of hydrated grain in bags, an AA921 or presto is about 25 lb.s max, though completely loaded like that PC time needs to be longer.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Rooster Cogburn] * 1
    #23554024 - 08/18/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Stamets Ron.  To be honest I feel similarly but I tend to keep my mouth shut about it.  To this day there are still Stamets fanatics that will eat up anything he says like mana from heaven.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Inocuole]
    #23554553 - 08/18/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I bought that scalpel.  Bout to test in out tomorrow!


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: glovebox: build your own easily [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #23554563 - 08/18/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I bought a #7 scalpel handle on amazon for $3.37 with free shipping.
Fungi perfecti is straight ripping people off if they charge $20


--------------------


Edited by natedawgnow (08/18/16 07:30 PM)


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