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Invisibletdubz
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Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression
    #23551613 - 08/17/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/17/health/ketamine-depression-treatment/index.html

Quote:


(CNN)The Food and Drug Administration put the experimental drug esketamine (also known as ketamine) on the fast track to official approval for use in treating major depression, Janssen Pharmaceutical announced Tuesday. This designated "breakthrough therapy" would offer psychiatrists a new method for treating patients with suicidal tendencies and would qualify as the first new treatment for major depressive disorder in about half a century.
In some quarters, though, this potentially effective medicine can't escape its reputation as "Special K," a street drug known for producing a high similar to an out-of-body experience -- and sometimes used as a date rape drug.

A cup and straw that can detect date-rape drugs?
Ketamine's origin story
Ketamine was first synthesized in 1962 by Calvin Stevens at Parke Davis Laboratories, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. It received FDA approval for use in humans in 1970, and shortly after, Army doctors used the drug on American soldiers fighting in Vietnam as an analgesic and sedative. Yet its minor hallucinogenic side effects soon warned doctors off treating people. Today, ketamine's most common use is as a veterinary anesthetic.
And yet the drug has an honored place on the World Health Organization's Essential Medicine List as an anesthetic and has been used off-label for pain, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression. The most recent new research has looked at ketamine's possible effects on symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
How does this useful drug affect the brain?
"We don't exactly know how it works," said Dr. Julie Coffman of the department of internal medicine, hospice and palliative medicine at OhioHealth Riverside Methodist Hospital, who is not affiliated with Janssen or any pharmaceutical company.
She explained how depression causes damage to nerves and their transmission pathways. Scientists believe, based on animal studies, that ketamine actually remodels the nerves.
Ketamine triggers neuroplastic processes, in which new connections among brain cells are made, said Dr. Dan Iosifescu, an associate professor of psychiatry and neuroscience at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, which is named on a license patent for using ketamine to treat depression.
"What's unique about ketamine is, this happens in hours or days, while with other depression medications, this happens in weeks to months," Iosifescu said.

A syringe in a bottle of ketamine.
As described in a published report by Coffman, she used ketamine when treating a patient who had treatment-resistant depression; none of the antidepressants he had tried alleviated his symptoms. A single oral dose of ketamine "had a very positive effect," Coffman said, and helped improve his anxiety symptoms. "Even from his family's standpoint. They noticed a marked improvement," Coffman said.
Janssen is working on clinical trials for two indications for esketamine: one for treatment-resistant depression and another for depression with suicidal thoughts. The company plans to present its phase III data for treatment-resistant depression in 2018 and file with the FDA that year.

A concern with using ketamine to treat depression is that it can reverse tolerance to opioids, Coffman said. Essentially, patients will get a higher dose of pain medicines, she explained, so any psychiatric uses would require "close oversight" by a multidisciplinary team of doctors.
Iosifescu said the short-term effects are known, but the long-term effects remain mysterious.
Another concern is the similarity between prescription ketamine and the street drug, a substance of abuse.
These are all reasons why Janssen's formulation will be provided and administered in doctors' offices or clinics, not distributed by pharmacies.

"We want to make sure patients are protected," said Dr. David Hough, a psychiatrist and medical leader for esketamine research at Janssen. He explained that when patients are treated with esketamine, their blood pressure may increase, they may feel dizzy, and there may be other physiological effects immediately after use, so experts would like patients to be observed for a two-hour period.
There's also the public's perception of the potential for abuse, an important concern that Hough doesn't want to interfere with the drug's more important potential as a therapy for suicidal patients.
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"I was a practicing psychiatrist for many years and saw many patients," Hough said.
"Over 41,000 people end up dying by suicide every year in the U.S.," he said. That's more than those who die from breast cancer every year. And suicide is increasing, he pointed out. "It's sort of an un-talked-about thing."
Current oral antidepressants take four to six weeks to work, while esketamine takes effect in the first four hours. According to Coffman, the effects of ketamine are not only dramatic but also long-lasting, with some patients experiencing positive results for up to 30 days after a single dose.
With suicide now a silent epidemic, will ketamine's bad reputation prevent it from fulfilling its possible promise as a much-needed treatment gap for depression?
"It's really groundbreaking," Hough said.




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OfflineCLIT
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: tdubz]
    #23552314 - 08/18/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

YES!

Will this be the Johnson & Johnson S-ketamine nasal spray thing due in 2017?

There's already legal ketamine infusion clinics throughout the country, cost about $500 per shot...


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Offlinerider420
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Registered: 02/11/16
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: tdubz]
    #23552786 - 08/18/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Its weird how few people who have weed are depressed, but lots of stoners who can't get weed are depressed. Therefor If more people smoked weed all the time fewer people would be depressed. Addict a person who does drugs every day, like caffeine that most people need a cup of just to get going but they are not addicts right? ROLMFAO while other people who don't smoke weed wonder if they can get through the day! Well at least the stimulant to get you going is legal too bad the stimulant that makes you happy is not eh. But one makes the rich richer and the other makes them jealous.


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Offlinetripp23
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: rider420]
    #23556177 - 08/19/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I always wanted to try ketamine just for this reason.  I bet it would do wonders on my depression.  I really wonder what it's like to feel normal.  I bet this stuff would do just that.

Edit: auto-correct


--------------------
Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!



Edited by tripp23 (08/19/16 08:25 AM)


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InvisibleGlameow
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: tripp23]
    #23558962 - 08/20/16 01:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The thing I'm most shocked reading that is this " concern with using ketamine to treat depression is that it can reverse tolerance to opioids,"

Surely this should be looked at for people using high doses of opioids long term?


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Offlinemushiefeet
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: Glameow]
    #23559008 - 08/20/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You truly are not missing much man Mush is far better in small doses for depression I have done it/do it very nice K makes you feel like a cat lol it is fun but for depression I well of course one be sober but Ha, But K really puts you out and you dont get too really remember your experience too well. It will make you feel very slow though. Just my experience :feelingfab:


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InvisibleGlameow
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: mushiefeet]
    #23559036 - 08/20/16 02:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushiefeet said:
You truly are not missing much man Mush is far better in small doses for depression I have done it/do it very nice K makes you feel like a cat lol it is fun but for depression I well of course one be sober but Ha, But K really puts you out and you dont get too really remember your experience too well. It will make you feel very slow though. Just my experience :feelingfab:




You realise that for treatment,  they're using low doses of k? So people aren't getting an "experience" per sae...it just lifts their mood.

Weed isn't suited to everyone,  can make some people quite anxious. ..having an alternative to weed..and hopefully moving away from reliance on anti depressants would be good for treatment options. .for depression.

I just wish society would stop worrying so much about "abuse potential" and using that to control people. 
Only something like 11% of drug users become problem users.


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Offlinedaz01
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: Glameow]
    #23560443 - 08/20/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I could not use actual cannabis for depression (opiate induced) because it's a "relax" and do nothing type of drug  but I'd definitely give cannabidiol a go, shame it's just so expensive in the UK :feelsbadman:

Ketamine sounds interesting.


--------------------
Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: daz01]
    #23561712 - 08/20/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I never liked K. But that being said I think that it's bullshit that it's use in proper treatment has been obstructed up until now. In fact I think having drug illegal at all is bullshit. I had a major problem with amps yet I believe that had they not been forced on the black market and proper information been available regarding their use, I might never had a problem at all.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: mushiefeet]
    #23561988 - 08/21/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushiefeet said:
You truly are not missing much man Mush is far better in small doses for depression I have done it/do it very nice K makes you feel like a cat lol it is fun but for depression I well of course one be sober but Ha, But K really puts you out and you dont get too really remember your experience too well. It will make you feel very slow though. Just my experience :feelingfab:




K and Mushrooms are both good for lifting depression, but they work in very different ways.  I don't consider ketamine a true "psychedelic" like psilocybin, rather I would describe its visionary effects as "disassociative".  The difference is that psilocybin causes an amplification and elucidation of the psyche, yet the ego tends to remain in the driver's seat - that is to say; one's sense of "I" remains intact whereas Ketamine, on the other hand, causes a disassociation from "I" and one's ego may vanish completely from consciousness.

Mushrooms relieve depression through catharsis, i.e.; psilocybin causes the psyche to release deep seated feelings and emotional attachments in a way that allows them to be examined, processed and even let go of completely.  Ketamine specifically releases one from self-identification, and this relieves the morbid preoccupation with one's self that is a symptom of depression.  These drugs treat different aspects of depression in different ways and I can imagine how a doctor might use one or the other depending on the unique needs of the patient.

Another important point is that ketamine with its anaesthetic effect, may be a safer drug for the acutely depressed.  In this respect it is similar to MDMA in that its healing action may be experienced painlessly.  True psychedelics like Psilocybin, LSD, Mescaline and DMT are much more challenging emotionally, and the healing process of mushroom trip may be quite painful at times, and some people are simply not ready for that. 

It's great to see how the research shows time and again how all of these "party drugs" have their profound healing effects.  As the research continues we'll see more clearly the unique properties and usages of each drug and also how they may work together to heal the spirit.  Perhaps, in the end the scientists will realize that plain old 'partying' was good medicine all along!


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OfflineConnoisseur

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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: tdubz]
    #23563409 - 08/21/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:billymaythumbup: a step in the right direction!


so glad to hear this has helped many people!


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OfflineCLIT
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: Connoisseur]
    #23564975 - 08/22/16 03:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Is Ketamine addicting? I just read the article stating it can help with alcoholism and addictions. I wonder if one becomes addicted to Ketamine, what then could be used to counter its addictive properties (if it is?).

I'm hoping to switch to prescription meth from dextroamphetamine for my ADHD and hopefully I don't get addicted. If I do, I want something that can counter addictions. I think stimulants are great anti depressants though.


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InvisibleGlameow
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: CLIT]
    #23565789 - 08/22/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CLIT said:
Is Ketamine addicting? I just read the article stating it can help with alcoholism and addictions. I wonder if one becomes addicted to Ketamine, what then could be used to counter its addictive properties (if it is?).

I'm hoping to switch to prescription meth from dextroamphetamine for my ADHD and hopefully I don't get addicted. If I do, I want something that can counter addictions. I think stimulants are great anti depressants though.




"There are no physical withdrawal symptoms, so ketamine addiction is sometimes called a ‘psychological dependence’. "
So.. about as addictive as weed?

http://m.talktofrank.com/drug/ketamine?detail=risks


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OfflineBoomtastic410
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Registered: 08/02/16
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: CLIT]
    #23565793 - 08/22/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

This is neal brennan on the joe rogane experience explaining what the k treatments did for him. Neal and Dave were the creators of the chappelles show. He has some insightful things to say about it.....


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OfflineBoomtastic410
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Re: Party drug ketamine closer to approval for depression [Re: Boomtastic410]
    #23565806 - 08/22/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Neal did I believe six treatments in a doctors office setting and he said the main side effect was his eyes burning for 2 to 3 months. I believe he said that the only other side effect was feeling lethargic and less energy for another few months....


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