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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #23554871 - 08/18/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You'd literally have a better chance winning the lottery IMO. I think the fuckin hamster vs elephant analogy is brilliant. Trich just so happens to be the main decomposer of decomposers. Once trich runs rampant, substrates turn black and pretty much back into soil IMO. At least that's what I've observed outside. Weed plants really love trichy substrates :rofl:

@pben I got it from bod(TC), I would ask him.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Mad Season]
    #23554896 - 08/18/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Textbook on fungi. PDF from web
Trich is parasitic of more than a few mushroom fungi


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23555075 - 08/18/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

My sincere thanks to people posting actual information in this thread!


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23555185 - 08/18/16 09:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 09:25 AM)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: amidogen]
    #23555197 - 08/18/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure he gets it by now.. if there's a problem left it's more than likely just a personal one. :shrug:  Points for effective reading comprehension/regurgitation though. :thumbup:


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23555207 - 08/18/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I never read walls of text, unless I know it's filled with info


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23555219 - 08/18/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Eh if my first scan-over turns back promising results I'll read it.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23555264 - 08/18/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks amidogen. For explaining it in easier to read English. Not super state of the art i can think of a few labs able to pole it off. But screw natural law and ecosystems


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: tump]
    #23555357 - 08/18/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:shitstorm::freewilly::awedisgust:

reading this thread from the beginning is :nonono: kill it before it spreads


Edited by Psilosopherr (08/18/16 10:32 PM)


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23555400 - 08/18/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 09:25 AM)


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: amidogen]
    #23555502 - 08/18/16 11:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

amidogen said:

I don't see why the rabbits/lions/tigers/mermaids/whatever analogies aren't doing it for you. How do you get a prey species to not only defeat but predate its natural predator? Cubes don't currently have the physiological hardware to attack/disable/kill trichoderma that has germinated, so it's not like we could somehow modify its behavior to seek out and destroy trich with cubes as they currently exist as a species. You'd need to cause genetic mutations that are carried on through enough generations that they become stable and a permanent trait of the organism. Ok, let's try that.




The rabbit/lion analogy works for a cube/trich because both lions and trich are the preditors in those examples but just because there are times when this wouldn't work doesn't mean that it could never work.

It's like saying a dog will never be able to kill a cat because tigers are bigger than chihuahuas (animal analogies of animal analogies :cool:) It surely depends on both the mushroom you are growing and the contam.

What about the thousands of other contaminants other than trich that inhabit the same substrate as the mushrooms we grow?

Using the animal analogy again this could be like two similarly matched species of monkey in a forest completing over a fruit tree where on any given day one or the other could win the territory in a fight.


If you were to alert one group of monkeys with a fake call of the other group you would give them an early warning. Adrenaline would be released, heart rates would increase, they would ready themselves to fight and take strategic positions. Surely this response happening ahead of time as a result of your intervention could turn the result in their favor.

When mushroom mycelium comes in contact with a contam all sorts of responses happen, metabolites are released, mycelium growth changes physically, fruiting happens prematurely so I don't see it as unreasonable to wonder if firstly it's possible to initiate these kind of responses with sterilised contams and if so could it change the outcome when the mycelium comes in contact with a live contam shortly afterwards.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: weetsie]
    #23555505 - 08/18/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lockdance:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23555623 - 08/19/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Let's have a look at the top contams.

Trich (unbeatable eats cubes)

Bacillus  (beatable in small colonies but let's trich slip in while the cubes are fighting the bacillus, is present in some degree in everyone's grain spawn anyway)

Aspergillus (unbeatable)

Penicillium (even strength but usually slips in to exposed media and steals nutes. Easily prevented with proper filters and by keeping sporeload down)

Lencacillium (unbeatable eats cubes in low FAE high temps)

Mycogone (unbeatable eats cubes in low FAE high temps)

Dactyllium  (thrives in high CO2, eats cubes, easily destroyed with peroxide, will never be seen in good FAE)

Rhizopus  (thrives in high CO2)

Pseudomonias (thrives in high CO2/wet conditions, eats cubes)

Which of these common contams do you propose we start with? Most are unbeatable in their preferred conditions but will never get a foothold in proper FAE and reasonable temps. The others are a risk invitro only and with clean cultures and decent sterilization runs will never be an issue. The only one that might even make sense is the bacillus. But again it's not like the bacteria itself is the problem but the fact that while the cubes are dealing with it, trich slips in. So you're back to trich.

The fact is that 99% of contamination is easily dealt with by either using good culturing practice or ensuring your fruiting conditions are good. Two very basic and easy things to do especially if your goal is to have a good grow in the first place.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23555648 - 08/19/16 12:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You could start with Bacullis but that make it harder to modifer the gene later id start with Penicillium then Lencacillium then Pseudomonias. Not sure if trish or Mycogone would be next. Got to have someway to kill it or slow it down leave bacullis in its many forms to fight back.


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23555655 - 08/19/16 12:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:


Which of these common contams do you propose we start with?




uhhh.

Well explained is all I can say :lol:


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: tump]
    #23555659 - 08/19/16 12:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wow okay. Horse has been led to the water.

:imout:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23555692 - 08/19/16 12:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: :grin:


Edited by Psilosopherr (08/19/16 01:03 AM)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23555697 - 08/19/16 01:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well you asked, so I mean, whose word would you take for it?


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23555702 - 08/19/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

dang, almost edited it in time


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23555705 - 08/19/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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