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OfflinePsilocyBen17
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr] * 2
    #23551825 - 08/17/16 11:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:


Off to make a rage thread on another site about anti-experimentalists. :crankey:




When you talk to the "experimentalists" can you tell them all to stop coming here?


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #23551832 - 08/17/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

it baffles me that this is the attitude you have towards experiments. There's no reason to be against us "wasting our time grasping at straws." Sometimes its fun to try to learn something instead of copying the same teks until I'm dead in the ground. :shrug:


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23551838 - 08/17/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 09:24 AM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: amidogen]
    #23551842 - 08/17/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

must inhibit spore germination I'm guessing?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr] * 1
    #23551853 - 08/18/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
must inhibit spore germination I'm guessing?




Essentially yes. The spores are inert before germination. A colonizing substrate can literally eat the spores before they germinate. While trich can eat cubes, it's spores will have a hard time germinating on a living vigorous colonizing colony before being destroyed. If there are no available easy nutes to germinate on, competitors are easy to ward off.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23551885 - 08/18/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if they eat their own spores?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23551936 - 08/18/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
"If it was possible somebody would have done it by now" is not an argument I'm a fan of. Though you would think somebody would have thought of this one.

Hard to find documentation of things that don't work though



Too bad yeast don't have a nervous system with cells that target virus and bacteria. Their only defense is metabolites with antibiotic compounds. Maybe you could find a strain that makes .more. You would be better off making GMO fungi that makes even better antibiotics


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23552237 - 08/18/16 04:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

We growers modifier the genetic code of fungus all the time. I agree it wouldn't be easy if not impossible for a long time. I know everyone says a cube is a cube except pe or a few other that took years to make stable. Company make new strain of yeast for wine or beer making. If there is a will there is a way. Hell making trish start producing enzymes that contain Psilocybin then extract that seems easier.  Some people grow ergot that way in lc style after they adjust it. So yes genetics might not be a cube at the end . as long as it works no one cares how it done.


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23552284 - 08/18/16 05:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was wondering about this a while ago, exactly the same thought, could you nuke a contaminated plate full of mold and use it to "vaccinate" a culture.

I also wondered if it could be used to speed up pinning as I have seen contaminated plates pin really quickly, weeks before clean plates of the same culture.

I figured if the response of mycelium when coming in contact with a contam is to produce metabolites then producing them ahead of time (if there is a response to sterile contams) could potentially increase the chances of your culture coming off best in some instances.

You say you will never train a cube to eat trich mycelium but what about contams that are more fairly matched, I've seen oysters run right over trich, is it not possible that tipping them off could help?


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If it was do easy to train cultures to eat contams do you not think that the multibillon dollar gourmet and medicinal industries would be all over that.

The easiest way to deal with contamination is to not have it.




That could just mean it's not a commercially viable technique. No large scale mushroom producers use PF tek either but that doesnt mean it doesnt work.

If the sterile contam caused the mycelium to waste energy fighting contams that aren't there then the loss in yields might make it nonviable even if it lowered the chances of contam.

I fully respect the best way is to keep contams out in the first place, I was more interested in if it could be done, rather than if it made sense to do so.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: weetsie]
    #23552309 - 08/18/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Like was said.. trying to vaccinate mycelium against mold is like trying to vaccinate a rabbit against wolves.  You can't just shit on the predator/prey situation that easily in one go..


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23552327 - 08/18/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Like I said, i'm not talking about those situations where it's so clear cut, there are plenty where that isn't the case.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: weetsie]
    #23552385 - 08/18/16 06:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If it was to be done it have to be done over and over again. Mushrooms produce enzymes that slow grow on the same median nukes. Thats why we swicth agar nutes and source. You invested the time and resources you could bred a mushroom to do anything. Better question in the theory after tranfer after tranfer of sterilized trish plates you move on what qbout the other contams which there are 1000s of do you do the same process. I think this be a great research grant for a grad student to do. When they gmo the common rice for flood area they bred a fungas that changed the dna of the rice they infected. They started with ergot and changed it with bacterial stuff. It only took 10 years and nine grad students and 5 million dollors to do. So come on guys lets do this. I want screw up ecosystems filled with cubes everywhere.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: tump]
    #23552399 - 08/18/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Basics idea to start with is here.http://www.nature.com/articles/srep08567


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: tump]
    #23552439 - 08/18/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am really not looking to create a psychedelic apocalypse.


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Offlinelukehighwalker710
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23552539 - 08/18/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I am really not looking to create a psychedelic apocalypse.



:rofl: :thumbup:


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Offlinetump
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23552645 - 08/18/16 08:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The whole point of this experiments would to make cubes so strong that they can eat all contams. Making all prep work against contams a waste of time. No more sterilized grains or lc`s. The cube myc will eat it all. You have a great company that could sell this myc. Most nunb friendly kit ever. Never contams fails. If it can be done. Why wouldn't you psychedelic paradise. Think of all the applications it have sell it at home depot with black mold testing kits


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: tump]
    #23552648 - 08/18/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tump said:
The whole point of this experiments would to make cubes so strong that they can eat all contams. Making all prep work against contams a waste of time. No more sterilized grains or lc`s. The cube myc will eat it all. You have a great company that could sell this myc. Most nunb friendly kit ever. Never contams fails. If it can be done. Why wouldn't you psychedelic paradise. Think of all the applications it have sell it at home depot with black mold testing kits




You have a lot to learn

:havesomescience:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: weetsie]
    #23552683 - 08/18/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

weetsie said:
I was wondering about this a while ago, exactly the same thought, could you nuke a contaminated plate full of mold and use it to "vaccinate" a culture.

I also wondered if it could be used to speed up pinning as I have seen contaminated plates pin really quickly, weeks before clean plates of the same culture.

I figured if the response of mycelium when coming in contact with a contam is to produce metabolites then producing them ahead of time (if there is a response to sterile contams) could potentially increase the chances of your culture coming off best in some instances.

You say you will never train a cube to eat trich mycelium but what about contams that are more fairly matched, I've seen oysters run right over trich, is it not possible that tipping them off could help?


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If it was do easy to train cultures to eat contams do you not think that the multibillon dollar gourmet and medicinal industries would be all over that.

The easiest way to deal with contamination is to not have it.




That could just mean it's not a commercially viable technique. No large scale mushroom producers use PF tek either but that doesnt mean it doesnt work.

If the sterile contam caused the mycelium to waste energy fighting contams that aren't there then the loss in yields might make it nonviable even if it lowered the chances of contam.

I fully respect the best way is to keep contams out in the first place, I was more interested in if it could be done, rather than if it made sense to do so.



thanks for being the one person who seems to understand what I'm talking about.

We've all seen myc put up a fighting chance against contams. Don't see why its so far fetched to breed a strain thats got a better chance. Fuck.

Plus nobodies talking about making mycelium magically immune to every contaminate and ruining the world by being immune to everything. Exaggerate much?


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23552691 - 08/18/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

my one question never got answered. Does a lab strain born and bred in sterility have the same exact reaction/resistance to mold as a wild strain?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23552696 - 08/18/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
my one question never got answered. Does a lab strain born and bred in sterility have the same exact reaction/resistance to mold as a wild strain?




Depends on how it was domesticated. But my original point still stands. The most resistant cultures are clean ones.


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