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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23610978 - 09/04/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I just found an interesting tidbit. I don't know hardly anything about viruses.

"some viruses can be quite beneficial (Pearson et al., 2009) or detrimental (Dalzoto et al., 2006; Wu et al., 2007) to their host. In fact, reduced virulence of plant fungal pathogens caused by mycoviruses (i.e. hypovirulence) has raised much attention for its potential as a biocontrol strategy to protect economically important crops."

http://femsec.oxfordjournals.org/content/88/3/437


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23610995 - 09/04/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

That artical has zero reference to the topic of cultivation of saprotrophs let alone cubensis. It's interesting but essentially meaningless to our aims. If this thead was posted in advanced and the title was "cultivation of amanita muscaria" it might be relevant.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23611006 - 09/04/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

interesting interesting interesting


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23611007 - 09/04/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If we move the goal posts any further it definitely won't be considered the same game anymore...  This is feeling like grasping at straws when you're digging up ANYTHING that could possibly be remotely construed by nobody in particular as somewhat related.

Not even trying to be a dick.. it's just feeling desperate in here and drawing that out of people is really not the point of these types of discussions.  The person demonstrating the value of these ideas should at least be confident enough to be able to give a real lead.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23611014 - 09/04/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So hostile. I just happened to be reading this paper and thought it would be interesting to the handful of people actually getting something out of this thread.

Like, I'm just stoned on a forum trying to discuss what I find interesting about this hobby with the community and....this, this is your reaction. If the subforum of choice is the issue then move it.


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23611021 - 09/04/16 11:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
So hostile.




Fuck it, I'm hiding this shit, won't matter if it's locked or not... If you think that's hostile, imagine if I were actually hostile.


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Inocuole]
    #23611027 - 09/04/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
So hostile.




Fuck it, I'm hiding this shit, won't matter if it's locked or not... If you think that's hostile, imagine if I were actually hostile.



Lol poke the bull get the horns:highfive:


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23611073 - 09/04/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What if you were to make an lc with antibiotics the made agar with a different kind of antibiotics then make an lc with a something a bit different basically growing out the myc over months of transfers in a solution to give it higher immune systems? If antibiotics isn't a good idea then something in the vicinity that would be more beneficial to myc growth yet helping it get stronger


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Boogieman47]
    #23611092 - 09/04/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

But antibiotics weaken the subject's immunity over time, while increasing immunity of the pathogens. Seems dangerous; that's why MRSA is such a problem.


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: dankington]
    #23611117 - 09/04/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ya that shits nasty .. well I know from a thread I made that antibiotics isn't good but maybe there is something that is beneficial sort of like antibiotic but not that you could basically make a test tube cubensis specie or any for that matter I really don't think it's possible either and know like pasty said if it was to happen it would Fuck up a shit ton of eco systems cause imagine how fast that shit would grow


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23611192 - 09/04/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
yeah seriously this is being treated like the pub...its getting ridiculous.

Wait how does one avoid the pay obstacles on scholarly articles? Through public libraries?
(seriously shitposters? go troll another thread, nobodies had any witty slams in over 3 pages)



Google bro,
99.9% of every pay article is a PDF somewhere on the web with nothing in your way. There's also a few good search engines for just this particular thing


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23611249 - 09/04/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

well shit, I've been hitting a brick wall that wasn't real for years.

Thanks


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23611261 - 09/04/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Send me a PM and when I'm home ill give you some links and tips


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23612301 - 09/04/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I posted a while back telling people how to access academic databases, in case anyone else enjoys reading more than shitting on whole fields of research, and think peer review is a more meaningful dynamic than post count, but it got burried by all this meaningless out of context nonsense just like all the valid talking points.

Welcome to the new pub everyone , where we completely ignore all the valid talking points and shit on whole concepts we don't even understand.

If anyone has the ability to be un-derailed by this nonsense and quit talking about "training myc " long enough to discuss some of the things that are actually interesting, like the many discussion points I have brought up

If you have to take something completely out of context to mount a criticism and doesn't address a single discussion point, it's not valid

Some of us have an interest in this stuff, if you don't and your only intention is to bury any attempt at productive conversation, then I would kindly ask you find a topic you are interested in (thanks inocuole :cheers:)

I mean what's the point?

Back to topic

Noob47:  thanks for thinking :thumbup:

It is important to remember that there is a whole lot of antibiotics and antifungals with new ones discovered every day

And also that there are thresholds for these compounds effects.  Just because an antibiotic is present doesn't mean that it is present in meaningful quantities . Similar to how penicillin was present in the environment for ages, but other organisms still survived and thrived because the quantity was so low. That's why it was so important to find a strain that produced more in order to be medically viable

So even if a super effective antibiotic is produced, there are still thresholds to consider, and it almost certainly would not (and does not) "wreck ecosystems "

Also, just like antibiotic agar we use now, it is essential to know whether the antibiotic compounds survive the sterilization cycle, like gentamicin does (which is why it's viable for antibiotic agar, etc

Also important to understand that supplementing with antibiotics DOES NOT strengthen immune systems, quite the opposite. Antibiotics are basically selective poisons, and after several generations of not having to fight bacteria, I would suspect the innate Immune responses to get weaker, if anything, since the antibiotics would preclude certain kinds of competition (in the right concentration)

I've actually quite enjoyed reading the 3 papers linked by OP, though as pasty said, they bear little to no direct relevance to our hobby. However it certainly brings up some fascinating concepts, since similar mechanisms could and probably do exist within cube sis culture

Makes me wonder about a few things, and I'd love y'all's feedback:

Has anyone noticed any particular microorganisms which cohabitate with cubensis cultures, which are beneficial or at least not harmful? I know firefang, but do yall know any I can add to my list? I'm particularly interested in learning of more of these types of microorganisms that I can investigate and learn more about their metabolism

Also, on the other end, has anyone identified any particular microorganisms which seem to inhibit the growth of cube myc? Obviously trich and other molds lower PH which has that effect, but has anyone noticed any other particular microorganisms that have interesting effects on the myc? I ask so that I can learn more about those microorganisms, and look into possible metabolites and constituents which might be of interest


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/04/16 07:22 PM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23612362 - 09/04/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I agree, its pretty annoying how the close minded people on this site reign,
this thread doesnt need to go backwards thinking mushrooms have CNS or anything similar to an immune system.
I'm not quite sure where you want this thread to go tho, most the points raised has been attended to and most here seem to have learned a little bit in the process :laugh:


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: spacechildo]
    #23612418 - 09/04/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I can't tell if people are looking for a way to create super cubes that can overpower contams or if they are looking for something to make the food source only able to be consumed by the cubes. The sheer lack of focus on this "topic" is half the problem.

We already use antibiotics in media in the hobby. Anyone who has done so understands quite well the benefits and pitfalls. Gentamiacin or tetracycline have very specific uses and are irreplaceable in some respects. However I would never use them unless in the utmost need. Most bacteria and molds are easy enough to transfer away from. I could never imagine using them in a media intended to support a fruiting colony. The loss in the cultures vigor would certainly hurt yields.

Again I will say doing teaches more than talking. Most of this information is on the site and the net in general. I read RR say the same thing about antibiotics a dozen times. But it wasn't until I started to mess around with them that I really understood what he meant.


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: spacechildo]
    #23612462 - 09/04/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ideally, discussion and insights that broaden my research and understanding , or help me hone in on the things I am already interested in, like identifying particular microorganisms to study

I got a hungry brain haha... Not trying to make super cultures or anything of the like, just trying to learn and broaden the scope of my research. Hell, the only concrete benefit that directly comes from the discussion I am here for is planting seeds for more questions and deeper research, anyone thinking this will help them get a clean culture, or limiting their interpretation of the conversation to that context, is making a serious mistake and probably wasting their time

Unfortunately there is frustratingly little direct research into these topics as they directly relate to cubensis culture, so if you want to dig deep you often have to take a nonlinear approach. I.e., we aren't going to find a paper on the antibiotics present in cubensis metabolites, but we might find a paper on how a particular microbe might cause reishi to produce antibiotics that aren't produced otherwise.

While that's not directly relevant to cube culture, it leads someone like me to wonder if there might be a similar mechanism in cubensis (and there probably is, considering the increased metabolites produced when the culture is competing with certain types of microorganisms)

So one way to research this kind of stuff is by identifying microorganisms which may activate this mechanism, and learning about their metabolism , constituents, etc

I'm also fascinated by the ways microorganisms transform their substrate, and which ones might make certain nutrients or complex organic compounds available to subsequent cultures, which would otherwise be unavailable to our cube cultures. The cube myc could very well turn these building blocks into something cool

Again:
Quote:

.Has anyone noticed any particular microorganisms which cohabitate with cubensis cultures, which are beneficial or at least not harmful? I know firefang, but do yall know any I can add to my list? I'm particularly interested in learning of more of these types of microorganisms that I can investigate and learn more about their metabolism

Also, on the other end, has anyone identified any particular microorganisms which seem to inhibit the growth of cube myc? Obviously trich and other molds lower PH which has that effect, but has anyone noticed any other particular microorganisms that have interesting effects on the myc? I ask so that I can learn more about those microorganisms, and look into possible metabolites and constituents which might be of interest 




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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (09/04/16 07:51 PM)


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23612506 - 09/04/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

But if basically the only thing that would be able to kill the cubes were bugs animals and humans wouldn't it just run rampid through the environment? And mushrooms may not have immune systems I don't know what they have but they do excrete metabolites so I meant as far as making their metabolites stronger ... because everybody everyday has myc on agar that gets hit with trich or something else that's nasty that they save with some technique so if infecting it with those things things would make myc stronger or resistant wouldn't that have already happened? And even if you did wouldn't once you grow and get spores or clones just take you right back to square one?


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Boogieman47]
    #23612663 - 09/04/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You are overthinking what cubes want or need. They need very little, and in a domestic setting act as primary decomposers. They will do their absolute best with no other organisim present, they are not like agaricus and actually require other species to be present in order to fruit.

Because of this very little work is done beyond the basic understanding of the function of thermophyles and their role in warding off mold for a short window. One might be able to dig up some similar research regarding agaricus but I doubt you will find anything peer reviewed in the same manner for cubes.

Certainly my own experience tells me that such avenues are dead ends and will not result in even marginal yield or potency increases. There are people hear who I greatly respect who will disagree with that. Which is why I never understood why people get so butthurt over people not agreeing with each other. Shit the people I learned the most from in this hobby are the ones I argued with the most.


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Re: Vaccinating clean mushroom cultures with dead/attenuated contaminants [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23612707 - 09/04/16 08:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well no one wants to hear they are wrong plain and simple getting through an argument and still being friends is what is important that's why they say you can't have too many cooks in the kitchen ... two mechanics both great at what they do will argue for hours over shit same with mycologist .... so I'm wrong about the myc taking over it's environment if it was to be contam resistant ?


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