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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Misuse of science
    #2354877 - 02/19/04 03:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This one is interesting (but not surprising):

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/rsirelease.html

"Washington, D.C.?Today, more than 60 leading scientists?including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents?issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels."


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2355276 - 02/19/04 04:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels."




That single sentence tells much.

Had they written that politicians in general do that, they'd have made a better case.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355285 - 02/19/04 05:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Are you saying the Bush administration hasn't done this?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: Xlea321]
    #2355306 - 02/19/04 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Still having trouble with the written word? That's a shame, yet fairly obvious.

But no Alpo, I said no such thing. Or do you somehow think that "politicians in general" somehow magically excludes Bush?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355326 - 02/19/04 05:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Then the statement is perfectly accurate and you have no point whatsoever.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: Xlea321]
    #2355339 - 02/19/04 05:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

As a man blinded by hate, I'm sure you think so.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355433 - 02/19/04 05:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The report talks about specific instances of supressing and distorting scientific findings by the Bush administration.

The UCS appearantly criticized the Clinton administration for similar shortcomings, but from the summary of the report:

"There is significant evidence that the scope and scale of the manipulation, supression, and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented."

It isn't criticism of the political decisions of the administration, but of the science those decisions were based upon. Amongst the scientifically respected signees are several conservative scientists, so this is no leftie conspiracy.

Considering what passes for science in the Bush cabinet (creationism) it's no wonder that both left and right leaning scientists come together in support of this report.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2355513 - 02/19/04 05:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking.



Sounds like more than one administration to me.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355554 - 02/19/04 05:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If you read the report or the summary, you would see that it's about issues handled by the current administration.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2355583 - 02/19/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I did read it. When a report blames or uses one administration as an example without pointing out that what was done is quite common, then as far as I'm concerned, it's crap.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinetrendalM
King of Asides
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,144
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355603 - 02/19/04 06:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So what you're saying is you prefer generalizations to specifics?


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BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355612 - 02/19/04 06:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Recap:

"There is significant evidence that the scope and scale of the manipulation, supression, and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented."

The Bush administration is not 'an example'. They are criticizing specific instances. And as I stated earlier, they have done this before with both democratic and republic administrations, but never before have they had such broad backing.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: trendal]
    #2355613 - 02/19/04 06:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Holy crap! Can no-one read today? Or is today assumption day?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinetrendalM
King of Asides
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,144
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355631 - 02/19/04 06:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I asked you a question, that's all.

You said that you think any report which only specifies one administration "is crap". Why do you think this?

I ask because to write a report and then say "oh, and this happens all the time anyway" takes weight away from the findings on the specified administration. It makes their transgressions not "as bad" in light of what has happened before. It makes people less likely to ask for change.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out specifics. In fact that's the way scientists do things. Welcome to Science :wink:


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BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: trendal]
    #2355665 - 02/19/04 06:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Right. And a report on now many people ran red lights in March and March alone is worth what? Nothing without context.

The same goes for the report featured in this thread. Without context it is crap.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinetrendalM
King of Asides
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,144
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2355695 - 02/19/04 06:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

And a report on now many people ran red lights in March and March alone is worth what?

Quite a bit, actually. It lets them know how many people ran red lights in the month of March :wink:

However that is an entirely different type of report than this report. This report isn't saying "this many people have used bad science in this administration"....it's saying "this administration has used bad science".

Since there are already reports about previous administrations, there is no need to rehash old news. Just because this is the first report you have seen doesn't make it the first report of its kind.


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BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Misuse of science [Re: trendal]
    #2355703 - 02/19/04 06:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

More assumptions? How disappointing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2355764 - 02/19/04 06:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)


the Bush administration has a history of distorting/exaggerating evidence to suit their needs.

nobody should be surprised by this.


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Invisibletimetravel
I'm going toMars!

Registered: 12/08/03
Posts: 163
Loc: Holland
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2355871 - 02/19/04 07:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

"When scientific knowledge has been found to be in conflict with its political goals, the administration has often manipulated the process through which science enters into its decisions.
This has been done by placing people who are professionally unqualified or who have clear conflicts of interest in official posts and on scientific advisory committees; by disbanding existing advisory committees; by censoring and suppressing reports by the government's own scientists; and by simply not seeking independent scientific advice."





Above is part of the letter. The letter was signed by 60 senior US scientists, including 20 Nobel prize winners, such as the physicists Steven Weinberg and James Cronin and the biologists Eric Kandel and Harold Varmus.
I'm not surprised either. Sounds like they are implying fraud.


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Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 9 years, 23 days
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2357293 - 02/20/04 01:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"Numerous complaints from the scientific community about the administration's scientific policy-making prompted the The Union of Concerned Scientists to begin investigating the issue last summer. As an example, the group noted the panel that advises the Centers for Disease Control on lead poisoning had been prepared to recommend strengthening regulations due to new findings on lead toxicity, but had their recommendation rejected by the administration and two panel members replaced by individuals with ties to the lead industry."

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/19/1717201&mode=thread


The study makes clear that the Bush administration's ideological abuses of scientific research far exceed anything that has occurred in the living memory of the scientists.

Your contention that the study is crap is unsubstantiated by facts, and is itself therefore crap. Please demonstrate to us that you know better than the scientists. Come up with proof that other administrations have interfered and tampered with scientific research to the same extent, or even close. PROOF. FACTS. Either of those words mean anything to you?

I'm eagerly awaiting your next utterly fact-free stream of self-indulgent idiocy.


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