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Wiscoregon
Harmonic Surfer


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 108
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First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second?
#23548285 - 08/16/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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First two tubs spoiled. Had 7 quarts of sub(coir / verm / chicken poo / castings / gypsum (should have left this out I realize) ) per bag. Presuming my 3 hours in the steamer didn't quite cut it. Can I try to give it a go again or do I have to scrap it or use them outside someplace and start over??
Edited by Wiscoregon (08/17/16 12:14 PM)
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Rooster Cogburn
Ranger

Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 265
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Wiscoregon]
#23548370 - 08/16/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Stick with coir, toss the other and heat treat with the bucket tek or pasteurize like normal.
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herrenvolk


Registered: 05/14/16
Posts: 222
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23548632 - 08/17/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't get it. You are pasteurizing your spawn in a steamer? And your spawn bags are made of "coir / verm / chicken poo / castings / gypsum" ? Or is this substrate?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: herrenvolk] 1
#23548640 - 08/17/16 12:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hope you're not suggesting that the gypsum is the thing you should have left out..
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FUNGORUM
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/16
Posts: 2
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Inocuole]
#23548731 - 08/17/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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[First i apologize for my english, its not my native language]
NOW..Start over! trow away the contaminated tubs, do not open them inside your grow area...not worth the risk.. if got a patio, burry them in a shaded place and water it.. if lucky you may get some medicine. use dish soap first, then commercial peroxide or bleach for a final clean [if contaminated tubs]
If you got contamination problems you got to check few things:
1- Make sure that your inoculum its fresh, and cont. free. Avoid using any old cultures or the ones looking funny.. should look vigorous, healthy.
2- When you pasteurize, any method you chose, you must use a thermometer so you make sure the substrate gets into the range of pasteurization, and stays there at least 1.5 hours... ill recommend you the use of thermometers that have a extension cord, so you can stuck it in different parts of the substrate. making sure all areas are in the pasteurization range.. bottom part gets hotter first..
3- Don't know how long you been growing, but if you got little experience, i recommend you to keep it simple at first. Use grain as inoculum source; as substrates, you can start with cow or horse manure alone/ Little vermiculite/ or title straw .... as you archive success you can start using more complex substrates... lots to try.. try using whats around your area, avoiding shipping costs.
3.1 Check how's the final humidity of your substrate before you add the inoculum.. Make sure its not wet dripping.(look for simple hand test or others). Here i recommend you pasteurize with vapor, instead of water bath, avoiding the water excess. If using water bath you can cut the water excess with sterile vermiculite before spawning.
4- When using additives like worm-castings, chicken poo, gypsum, make sure you use the right amount...why? Some of those ingredients are nutrient rich.. like castings and chicken poo are known to be nitrogen rich, which its a good thing, but other fungal or bacterial entities can join the party! and its a private one! Read about the ingredients you plan to use, as they can change the chemical properties of your substrate. Even though mushrooms can stand a range of substrates and conditions, they can be sensitive to the excess of some ingredients. They perform better under a range of certain conditions 5. Read 6. Read more 7. Read again  8. cultivation its like fishing, you must be very patient..
Edited by FUNGORUM (08/17/16 01:38 AM)
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billy jowl
blah



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 1,496
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Inocuole]
#23549119 - 08/17/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: I hope you're not suggesting that the gypsum is the thing you should have left out..
If you are referring to the casing. Why not leave gypsum out? Ithought the point of casing was to use a non nutritious substrate, to provide a micro climate.
I know coir, vermiculite and gypsum are used as a casing, and technically a pseudo casing because of its nutritioun.
But why not leave out gypsum if it just increases nutritioun?
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: billy jowl]
#23549488 - 08/17/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Because it wouldn't have been the gypsum that was the problem.
Chicken poo should probably be pasteurized separately and added to bucket tek'd cvg, I'd think...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: dankington]
#23549528 - 08/17/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Or left out completely, along with the castings, because fuck adding all that hot shit to coir and then wondering why it doesn't work..
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Wiscoregon
Harmonic Surfer


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 108
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: herrenvolk]
#23549725 - 08/17/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah sorry, one too many dabs or something, I meant substrate. My dual wallpaper steamer 96 gallon toter unit. There were 7 quarts of substrate per filter bag and they were dispersed per textbook.
Also my substrate mix was 3-5% chicken poo, 3-5% castings, and otherwise daemons proportions for verm / coir.
I have access to loads of chicken doo because I own egg birds and mushrooms love it. RR recommends using it for straw logs at < 5% as well.
My primary concern was that my substrate wasn't pasteurized long enough - but I purchased a nice meat thermometer last night to plug the bags next time.
My question is having already undergone one attempt, is it best to just pitch that shit and start over - or can I try to salvage with another pasteurization run. I have like 5 x 7 quart bags already bagged up and it would save me quite a bit of hassle if I just pasteurized once again. Thanks for advise. Also it should be noted those bags have been in the refrigerator for around 2 weeks since last past. attempt.
Edited by Wiscoregon (08/17/16 12:12 PM)
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Wiscoregon
Harmonic Surfer


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 108
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: dankington]
#23549774 - 08/17/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I do think it was the Cpoo that was the cause for problem. There was lots of trich and lots of a yellow colored contaminant and it onset immediately. It wasn't an exposure contaminant. It was bad past.
I think pasteurizing the cpoo seperately and combining after the fact might be the best way to go. What's the best way of bringing cpoo to field capacity do you suppose?
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Rooster Cogburn
Ranger

Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 265
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Wiscoregon]
#23550205 - 08/17/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, it needs to be pasteurized, and when RR is talking about supplementing straw logs that is for pleurotus ostreatus or other oyster species. You can sneak supplements into pasteurized straw, but contam rate is not worth the extra BE usually, at that point we move on to sterilized supplemented substrates and needs to be inoculated in front of a hood. Now considering you are growing cubes and using coir, the contam rate for sneaking in supplements is WAY not worth the BE already available from the coir itself. Just an opinion, but if you want to utilize you'r chicken shit, build a compost pile and work it properly, phase 2 that shit and give it a go.
Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/17/16 03:39 PM)
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FUNGORUM
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/16
Posts: 2
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: First pasteurization was inadequate should I do a second? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23566253 - 08/22/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I recommend to start again, don't by lazy ma frend!.
even though its been on the fridge [ Bacteria and fungi grow slower in low temps, but still grow]
Since you didn't archive pasteurization the first time, all the microorganisms that survived have a party by now.. and yes you can kill them w/ a good pasteurization... the problem is all the secondary metabolites that bacteria and fungi secrete in to the substrate.. many of those complex molecules will persist after pasteurization..
and yes, fungi may overcome this substances (but they have limits)... they gotta waste time and resources to syntetize new enzymes/metabolites to adapt to the environment.. if you can make it easy for the shrooms, do it!
... my opinion is that with a fresh and "clean" substrate you can archive way better results.
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