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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: nothing exists]
    #23569285 - 08/23/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

nothing exists said:

evil will always overpower good




Millions of people have defeated anxiety, depression, and addiction.

How do you explain that?



no they have not. they put them in their place. those qualities still exist, some can control them. as a learning experience, those qualities can be seen as good.




Our ignorance creates our misery. Once we see clearly how we fuel our suffering, we can break free.


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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: nothing exists]
    #23572812 - 08/24/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
Quote:

Alonzo said:
Good and evil are IDEAS: human ideas.

They're just words, descriptors, and judgements. Big deal.
Evil will not always overpower good, only sometimes.

What is evil? Something undesirable or detrimental. Example: Murder
What is good? Something desirable or beneficial. Example: Money



wrong. murder is good, sometimes. money is evil, sometimes.

the problem is plasticity.




I don't undestand this conversation.  Here you have Alonzo stating that good and evil are just human labels we apply to certain things.

Then you have nothing exists saying, "Wrong", that good and exil can be applied to anything, that you can sometimes even call murder good.

So basically they are saying the same thing, except that for some reason nothing exits calls Alonzo wrong.  It doesn't make any sense.

For the record I do agree with Alonzo.  Fixed moral concepts are a product of the human mind, basically just labels we assign to things in order to make sense of life.

Though I also contend that there is more to ourselves than the human mind.  There is an aspect that orginates from something else.  Becoming lost in the human mind is what binds us to our human form and causes us to loose sight of a much larger reality.  Instead of being aware of what we are and all there is, we believe ourselves to be these human animals and that this universe is all that exists.

I know these things because I can actually perceive it in the exact same way that your awareness percieves the sensory imagery, thoughts, and emotions moving through your human mind.  It is just that having loosened my awareness from the human mind somewhat, I now remember what I am and can perceive how this stuff works.

Of course most likely nobody will understand because most human beings like the experience of being human and do not want to know that it isn't real.  You can literally spell out how the human condition works and it will just get lost in long threads fully of gibberish and speculation.

You can't figure this stuff out via human logic which still relies on the mind in which we are trapped.  The way to understand is to pull back from the mind enough to actually perceive how this works.  Then it is quite obvious.


--------------------
I only use drugs medicinally.  If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #23572989 - 08/24/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The knowledge of good and evil is what caused the Fall. This formerly forbidden knowledge is the root of suffering (sin) which is now mankind's normal everyday existence because we can't help but label things good/bad, light/dark.
When you constantly rate things as bad/dark in your mind, you will consistently experience that subjective badness/darkness.  Eating from the tree of life is to remain ignorant of good and bad by recognizing them as mental constructs. Life as it is, without these constructs, is heaven on earth, the garden.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23573058 - 08/24/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
The knowledge of good and evil is what caused the Fall. This formerly forbidden knowledge is the root of suffering (sin) which is now mankind's normal everyday existence because we can't help but label things good/bad, light/dark.
When you constantly rate things as bad/dark in your mind, you will consistently experience that subjective badness/darkness.  Eating from the tree of life is to remain ignorant of good and bad by recognizing them as mental constructs. Life as it is, without these constructs, is heaven on earth, the garden.




Quote:

Life as it is, without these constructs, is heaven on earth, the garden.




But that would mean that ignorance was bliss.  Is it?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23573228 - 08/24/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Whenever I can manage it, yeah.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23573389 - 08/24/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I tend to agree.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23573503 - 08/24/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
The knowledge of good and evil is what caused the Fall. This formerly forbidden knowledge is the root of suffering (sin) which is now mankind's normal everyday existence because we can't help but label things good/bad, light/dark.
When you constantly rate things as bad/dark in your mind, you will consistently experience that subjective badness/darkness.  Eating from the tree of life is to remain ignorant of good and bad by recognizing them as mental constructs. Life as it is, without these constructs, is heaven on earth, the garden.




but that is the presumption that the myth of the 'fall' is coming from sources which have no agenda regarding oppressive social control. But all the evidence is against that assumption, because it is true that the elite devised these tales to control their slaves. That is what they do! The princes and what not.

The proof of that can be found if we compare with the myth which 'coincidentally' happened
in step with the Industrial Revolution. All of a sudden the story/myth was that people were machines, and nature was a machine and even the universe was a huge clockwork machine. Who said? the 'experts'! before it was the priests. This worked perfectly for their satanic factor-y system where they needed their slaves to be cogs in their machine to create lots and lots of profit for the greedy selves.

The REAL evil are the fkers who cold bloodedly and ruthlessly devise such toxic myths to control and exploit people, animals, and the natural world itself! it is VERY handy to know this!


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: zzripz]
    #23574599 - 08/24/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

mt cleverest said:
The knowledge of good and evil is what caused the Fall. This formerly forbidden knowledge is the root of suffering (sin) which is now mankind's normal everyday existence because we can't help but label things good/bad, light/dark.
When you constantly rate things as bad/dark in your mind, you will consistently experience that subjective badness/darkness.  Eating from the tree of life is to remain ignorant of good and bad by recognizing them as mental constructs. Life as it is, without these constructs, is heaven on earth, the garden.




but that is the presumption that the myth of the 'fall' is coming from sources which have no agenda regarding oppressive social control. But all the evidence is against that assumption, because it is true that the elite devised these tales to control their slaves. That is what they do! The princes and what not.

The proof of that can be found if we compare with the myth which 'coincidentally' happened
in step with the Industrial Revolution. All of a sudden the story/myth was that people were machines, and nature was a machine and even the universe was a huge clockwork machine. Who said? the 'experts'! before it was the priests. This worked perfectly for their satanic factor-y system where they needed their slaves to be cogs in their machine to create lots and lots of profit for the greedy selves.

The REAL evil are the fkers who cold bloodedly and ruthlessly devise such toxic myths to control and exploit people, animals, and the natural world itself! it is VERY handy to know this!




This makes good sense,  I agree about those that invent the toxic myth about the "Fall".  I had some thoughts about the "myth" in the past but never really thought them through.  My intuition said the "myth" was to discourage and trash hope, but this gives body and sequence to the notion.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


Edited by ChristopherABrown (08/24/16 11:53 PM)


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23575504 - 08/25/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

How is it a toxic myth? Because it encourages the ignorance of evil? Thats a common complaint whenever someone suggests doing away with morality. The naysayers claim that evil abounds when good men do nothing but I think that is rubbish.  Morality is always relative and it is always a divider. How many wars have been fought because this guy's sense of good equaled another guy's sense of evil? Sure, abandoning morality can seem hairy at first because it means abandoning a large part of the ego. The early new testament church struggled with this as they saw grace (the tree of life) as being a license to sin; they preferred the Law which was simply an extension of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But Paul told them they were missing the point entirely, saying that once the revelation hit, it was no longer him who did things but christ through him. When you let go of judgment and doership, you see how everything flows perfectly fine. The law (morality) was a tutor but its time to move on, back to the willful ignorance of childhood. You must become a child to enter the kingdom of heaven which is right here, now. Why tarnish God's creation by attaching a story to everything? Whatever it is is much more beautiful without your gross pea-sized brain meaning on top of it.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23575867 - 08/25/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the naysayers claim that evil abounds when good men do nothing but I think that is rubbish.  Morality is always relative and it is always a divider.




Obviously if you see wrong you must speak up, challenge it. It is conformists who abide by authority no matter what. You must have seen the famous psychological experiments where members of the public were tested to see how conformist they are and blindly follow authority. One was when men posing as white coated scientist with clipboards asked people to press buttons to electrocute what they thought were others in a room---who they couldn't see but only hear their screams of pain when they pushed the button. They were to push it is the person (who was really an actor) got a question wrong. They did it cause these 'experts' told them to. EVEN when they were told to increase the electric current, and the 'victim' fell silent they continued
This is how an oppressive hierarchy is made up, by a chain of command, and to question the authority above you is called insubordination, and can bring severe punishment, even death. So it takes great courage to not conform to authority!

Paul was full of sht. he was pushing a phony belief. And he would get away with his BS because he claimed 'christ' was working through him bla bla. All of that is phony and can lead to great evil, because the one saying it is either deluded or surreptitiously lying to increase their authority will oppress and not take responsibility for it which is immoral.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: zzripz]
    #23575972 - 08/25/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The idea is that when you're living without judgment, you will automatically walk in love because that is your nature. So if something comes up that is against your nature, you will naturally oppose it without having to think about it. This was the motivating factor behind the apostles' opposition of the jews and roman government. You can call Paul full of shit, maybe he was, but he definitely was not a conformist by any means. He was a renegade badass whose only allegiance was to god.
I know that experiment youre talking about, it's pretty interesting, nothing earth shattering tho. The movie about it was terribly pretentious.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: sudly]
    #23576037 - 08/25/16 01:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Hitler thought he was good :shrug:




I don't believe that's true.

He might have presented things as though he thought his actions were for the good of the world, because that is the 'sell' afterall, but his emotions would have been telling him very clearly, with obvious reason, that he was committing evil deeds.

It's much more likely that he seen the world as dog eat dog and that the animalistic ego approach of domination, was the way forward dictated by his demons. Pervitin addiction, would have reinforced this paradigm tenfold.

Charles Manson, as another example, is perfectly aware of his mindset and actions being bad.  He, by his own admittance, is fully aware of the Christ consciousness which attempts to overthrow his evil, and so, he see constantly battles it with the amateur dramatic displays of lunacy.

Many are lost as children in the world and the apparent, easily reachable crutch is the one of evil. The one that convinces people they need to be the best, the strongest, the most successful, the ones in the right, yet it only involves climbing a ladder of great heights only to fall upon ageing / death.  Christ is the only truth. It's eternal and the ultimate segue past death, because it is the essence of the 'after'.

When I understood this, I've since broken past the barricades of some very volatile people to discover that they are infact very sensitive, insecure and scared at heart and their spirit glows as they just be the essence of who they truly are.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/25/16 01:21 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23576079 - 08/25/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
The idea is that when you're living without judgment, you will automatically walk in love because that is your nature. So if something comes up that is against your nature, you will naturally oppose it without having to think about it. This was the motivating factor behind the apostles' opposition of the jews and roman government. You can call Paul full of shit, maybe he was, but he definitely was not a conformist by any means. He was a renegade badass whose only allegiance was to god.
I know that experiment youre talking about, it's pretty interesting, nothing earth shattering tho. The movie about it was terribly pretentious.




so you don't judge, and 'walk in love'?


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: zzripz]
    #23576297 - 08/25/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yep


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23576613 - 08/25/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

so you don't judge my ideas?

can you not see how phony it is to pretend you don't judge? we do it all the time :shocked:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: nothing exists]
    #23576859 - 08/25/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Evil doesn't win, it uses, it abuses, it consumes.  It eats.  That's what evil does. 



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleiiilil
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Registered: 01/08/16
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23577279 - 08/25/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You are unable to completely rid yourself of the influence of bad, knowledge of bad, and the day to day discernments you have to make between the two. Your very existence and free-will is underscored by it and since you do not embody total truth, your actions always lend themselves to folly.

You can't have your cake and eat too in this matter of 'suchness'. You can't simultaneously be objective and infinite yet remain in a physically finite and subjective experience. You do not see all things. You only see a narrow spectrum. Yet, you have the free will to act on what reality you construct from this narrow spectrum. That is the very mechanism for which 'bad' creeps into the picture.

When a more absolute truth and wholeness exists : The ability of a piece of that whole to go against it either through ignorance of free-will'd choice and see as they want to see and do as they want to do marks the beginning of a rift between that which is infinite and that which one willfully constructs on their own.

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
The law (morality) was a tutor but its time to move on, back to the willful ignorance of childhood. You must become a child to enter the kingdom of heaven which is right here, now. Why tarnish God's creation by attaching a story to everything? Whatever it is is much more beautiful without your gross pea-sized brain meaning on top of it.




No matter how much hand waving you want to do, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. At the biological level, you cannot undo the cast that you have been molded into. For some time, your experience in the world is as that of a 'child' as dictated by the laws of biology. After some time and development, you 'see' the world and good/evil. No manner of will can revert this. For, it is the law until such a time when it is no more.

Furthermore :
"11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known" :
1 Corinthians 13:11-12

Indeed, seek out that which is love and good. However, know that some of your best intentions will fall short and can manifest, in this world, as bad/evil. It is the nature of the fall.


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Invisibleiiilil
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23577352 - 08/25/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Hitler thought he was good :shrug:




I don't believe that's true.

He might have presented things as though he thought his actions were for the good of the world, because that is the 'sell' afterall, but his emotions would have been telling him very clearly, with obvious reason, that he was committing evil deeds.

It's much more likely that he seen the world as dog eat dog and that the animalistic ego approach of domination, was the way forward dictated by his demons. Pervitin addiction, would have reinforced this paradigm tenfold.

Charles Manson, as another example, is perfectly aware of his mindset and actions being bad.  He, by his own admittance, is fully aware of the Christ consciousness which attempts to overthrow his evil, and so, he see constantly battles it with the amateur dramatic displays of lunacy.

Many are lost as children in the world and the apparent, easily reachable crutch is the one of evil. The one that convinces people they need to be the best, the strongest, the most successful, the ones in the right, yet it only involves climbing a ladder of great heights only to fall upon ageing / death.  Christ is the only truth. It's eternal and the ultimate segue past death, because it is the essence of the 'after'.

When I understood this, I've since broken past the barricades of some very volatile people to discover that they are infact very sensitive, insecure and scared at heart and their spirit glows as they just be the essence of who they truly are.





How is this reconciled with
Quote:


I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.





I am often times troubled not so much with myself but the run of this all ...
On one hand, people are to blame for not choosing correctly.
On the other hand, they will never truly know all to choose perfectly.
And once you know all and are all, is their choice?

Ah', but incomplete knowledge and choices to a fault. here in this manner of suchness...

One should love and do as best they can and some have pretty good circumstances to do so under. However, what if it were the case that you had to decided whether to kill 1,000 people to prevent 100,000 from dying by pressing a button or not press the button and let 100,000 people die?

Ah', but who is another human being to sit and judge you after the fact? That is supposedly only the capability of God... After-all, you are 'unaware' of his plans and purpose. How works of good can be done through good and sometimes evil, etc etc...

And what is this all for ultimately anyway? What if adam and eve just said : You know what...were sorry we error'd and then proceeded to off themselves? Would billions of souls have had to suffer? Would billions of years potentially have had to go by for the revelation? If they knew what was to play out would they have continued on producing and multiplying suffering?

So, there's obviously something more going on behind this interweaving and playing out of good/evil across space-time. Many aspects of it seem pre-destined and out of one's control... So, who is anyone to judge a moment or individual given our lack of knowledge about what exactly was their purpose in the grand scheme of things? Yet, we do ..
Even the most faithful and devout amongst us, even when the very bible itself tells them not to, even as they preach to others about this judgement practice...
Because we like to think we know what is bad/evil .. We like to think we know God's plan in our lives and others... the means to an end.

That's not a judgement of sorts.. I just find it interesting
:nicesmile:


Edited by iiilil (08/25/16 07:23 PM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: iiilil]
    #23579198 - 08/26/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Hitler thought he was good :shrug:




I don't believe that's true.

He might have presented things as though he thought his actions were for the good of the world, because that is the 'sell' afterall, but his emotions would have been telling him very clearly, with obvious reason, that he was committing evil deeds.

It's much more likely that he seen the world as dog eat dog and that the animalistic ego approach of domination, was the way forward dictated by his demons. Pervitin addiction, would have reinforced this paradigm tenfold.

Charles Manson, as another example, is perfectly aware of his mindset and actions being bad.  He, by his own admittance, is fully aware of the Christ consciousness which attempts to overthrow his evil, and so, he see constantly battles it with the amateur dramatic displays of lunacy.

Many are lost as children in the world and the apparent, easily reachable crutch is the one of evil. The one that convinces people they need to be the best, the strongest, the most successful, the ones in the right, yet it only involves climbing a ladder of great heights only to fall upon ageing / death.  Christ is the only truth. It's eternal and the ultimate segue past death, because it is the essence of the 'after'.

When I understood this, I've since broken past the barricades of some very volatile people to discover that they are infact very sensitive, insecure and scared at heart and their spirit glows as they just be the essence of who they truly are.





How is this reconciled with
Quote:


I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.





Why should it reconcile with the Bible? :wink:

For the sake of answering the question though, Isaiah is an Old Testament prophet.  The Old Testament 'God' was a demiurgic miscomprehension, hence the birth of Jesus Christ and the New Testament which technically, in parts, serves as a corrective revision, which aims ultimately to shift mankinds paradigm to recognise the true, pure, perfect and good God.

'I am the light and the way' is the noteworthy quote of the New Testament.

Gnosis of good / bad is not judgement, unless we condemn. It's knowledge inherited by heart.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/26/16 10:08 AM)


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Invisibleiiilil
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Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: knowledge of good and evil explained [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23579880 - 08/26/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Why should it reconcile with the Bible? :wink:





Lets not be coy here.. :nicesmile:

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
For the sake of answering the question though, Isaiah is an Old Testament prophet.  The Old Testament 'God' was a demiurgic miscomprehension, hence the birth of Jesus Christ and the New Testament which technically, in parts, serves as a corrective revision, which aims ultimately to shift mankinds paradigm to recognise the true, pure, perfect and good God.




So, now were picking and choosing which portions of the Bible to apply..
I see ...

It's recognized and understood that we cannot obtain pure perfection in our current frame of existence. We can strive towards it but will always fall and be with fault for we are not all knowing and are thus unable to choose consistently and be what is perfect/good. For we are not casted into a shell that is perfect/good. Furthermore, can you choose/have free-will once you become all knowing and perfect?

I was attempting to align the conversation with a deeper inquiry...

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
'I am the light and the way' is the noteworthy quote of the New Testament.




K, lets go with this quote. The way through 'what'? As opposed to 'what other way'?
Who created that other way? What form does it take in our human reaches? When/How did we obtain awareness of multiple ways? Why is it such a struggle to choose God's way? Why is it that our existence underscores the choosing between them? Is the medium in which God's way is established a necessity? What is that medium?

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Gnosis of good / bad is not judgement, unless we condemn. It's knowledge inherited by heart.



As our knowledge of the infinite is incomplete, our awareness of good/bad is faulty as are our manifestations. I know its a hard thing for you to understand, but there are people who do great bad in the world who honestly believe what they're doing is good. The heart/mind are funny things in this way...

You maintain that god is the light and the way.. When you don't maintain full knowledge of that way, you will travel towards it in error at times... that is known as bad/evil. As such, the very premise of the context that we find ourselves in is questionable.

The world would be in chaos if there was a suspension of judgement/condemnation for those who run amok in society. Sure, we could put our fingers in our ears, close our eyes, and say everything is going to be ok but the world would quite quickly turn to ruin if we did. Also, some live with the luxury of not having to judge/condemn while others do it in order to ensure are more harmonious society.

Furthermore, as I recall, there was judgement even in heaven for those who didn't follow the word. There was also condemnation. Human beings were condemned and judged for an act committed by Adam/Eve... An awareness of good/evil.

While 'a way and a light' was made for their redemption and reconciliation. It is held that you will ultimately be judged by that which is perfect and good based on how you navigated an imperfect context known as life.

I'd appreciate if you're going to reference from biblical works that you don't selectively pick and choose portions of the bible believe/not believe in and/or child-ify quite serious passages...

There is judgement. There is condemnation.
There is the subjective free-will'd existence that each human being lives out.
The context is imperfect which is why there is good/bad: The perfect/good way and then every other act/thought/manifestation outside of it.

We obtained awareness of good/bad with incomplete knowledge. Thus, we manifest good/bad imperfectly. We are judged ultimately by the way/the light/the word as is written in the bible that you keep referencing 'selectively'. You either take it all on or nothing at all IMO.

We could all just come up w/ our cozy beliefs that make us feel good/help us sleep at night .. but then again, didn't all of the crazy people you reference above do the same thing? and what of this ultimate truth you speak of if everyone just makes up their own version/decides what pieces they do/don't want to subscribe to...

As one who 'sees' more deeply understands : thus are the very seeds of 'evil'.
Furthermore, what is in every man's heart is clearly not the same. One only need take a look around to figure that out.

There are deeper things to be addressed... Some just fashion a more comfortable life by selectively ignoring those things.

Ignorance might be bliss on earth but it seems it is suggested that god isn't nor is the infinite beyond earth. Ultimately, it is suggested that there will be a judgement and it would seem that testifying that one had their fingers in their ears and their eyes shut won't be an excuse.


1 Corinthians 13,8:13
"8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."


Edited by iiilil (08/26/16 12:57 PM)


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