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Gloogloos
Stranger

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 63
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Closed circuit Dehydrator idea
#23546508 - 08/16/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey guys, so I live in an awesome ground floor apartment that is hot as hell and humid as shit and theres no AC or anything, so drying is a bit of a bitch because it can take forever without the use of heat, and using heat makes the apartment absolutely unbearable.
SO I had an idea for a closed circuit dehydrator, meaning it recycles the air. Basically the idea is to push air around the mushrooms, or whatever you are drying (peppers and shit), and then push it through a bunch of silica beads and then back over the mushrooms and then repeat. The beads are color changing when they reach capacity, and once they do you simply bake them in the oven to dry them out and toss them back in there and go at it again.
here is horrifying depiction of that idea

I did some research on the beads, they can absorb up to 40% of their weight in water, 1 gallon is approx 7.7 pounds, meaning one gallon can absorb 3 pounds of water, as mushrooms are roughly 90% water that means 1 gallon could dry out approx 150 grams of mushrooms. I havent decided on dimensions for this thing yet because I have to find a fan first but I would be using at least 2 gallons in there, so it could dry quite a bit before having to be dried.
Here are the beads I plan to use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I5Y9H6A?psc=1
My top concerns are thus:
The beads will take up so much space that the airflow will be extremely limited, this can be resolved by using a more powerful fan, or even placing the beads in a container that is meshed on the top and bottom and using a fan powerful enough to agitate and move the beads, so that they are in motion and therefore being less restrictive.
It will simply take too long, the beads wont absorb water at a rate fast enough to dehydrate practically. From what I can tell they work pretty fast, especially in large volumes so I this will just have to be tested.
The beads wont fully dehydrate the mushrooms. The beads operate best in high level humidity, as the mushrooms get drier and drier I worry that the beads will become so inefficient that the mushrooms wont ever fully dry. Again this will just have to be tested.
Anyone ever try anything like this, I remember years ago reading that some people would fill up buckets with silica beads and then space a screen a few inches above it and simply place the mushrooms in there, seal it and wait. If that works I would imagine moving the air and constantly putting it contact with both the mushrooms and the desiccant would be effective. Furthermore considering that it is a closed system this would work in virtually any climate and humidity level, and it would not add moisture or odor to the air. Some people also sun dry these things instead of baking or even put them in little greenhouses or sun ovens.
Unless someone tells me that this is definitely a horrible idea im going to go for it and give it a shot. Ill make a little building log for it and run some tests and see if its worth the effort.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546511 - 08/16/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do food dehydrators really make that much heat?
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mrmazdarx9
Pffffttt


Registered: 05/15/16
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: ComebackKid]
#23546524 - 08/16/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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A gallon of beads is a Hella lot of beads based on my gallon bottle I have here Just get a dehydrator put it near a window or door if you live in an oven, I know the feeling mines in the back room gets real hot after 12+ hours sometimes days as I stagger my cakes not on purpose just happens meaning one flush is ready before while my next one is a day or so behind
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Gloogloos
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Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: ComebackKid]
#23546531 - 08/16/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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For a large volume you would need either very large food deydrators or a bunch of cheap ones, from what I understand heat drying isnt too great of an idea, especially if you overload the dehydrators, the bottom will often get well over 100 degrees. I used to use dehydrators but the cheap ones will just ruin stuff if you arent careful, and the good ones really don't hold much in terms of volume.
And while it may be a matter of a drop in a bucket, heat and fresh air promote faster degradation of the active compounds. The beauty of this design is that it dries at ambient temperatures, the fan might elevate the temperature a little bit but it would be negligible.
Furthermore, compared to driers that move air at least, you prevent spores from getting all over your space. Once had a fan drying some mushies and the wall in front of it turned a shade more purple from it.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546547 - 08/16/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Heat from dehydrators dosen't degrade actives, ppl deep fry cubes. What does is the moisture in the mushrooms aiding in the oxidation of actives. You want to dry them cracker dry as fast as possible as high as the dehydrator will go. Heat and moving air is the best option. We go over this at least once a week.
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 211
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: NDStepp84]
#23546559 - 08/16/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
NDStepp84 said: ...We go over this at least once a week.
Probably closer to like once a day.
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Gloogloos
Stranger

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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546565 - 08/16/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Be that as it may that's not the point, the point is to dry large volumes without adding heat or moisture to the immediate environment. Food dehydrators are great for small amounts, sure, but if you are running like 4 dehydrators for hours you are going to feel it.
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 211
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546574 - 08/16/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Get a commercial dehydrator and quit messing with little nescos. Do you have a exhaust in your bathroom? Maybe run your dehydrator in there with the exhaust running.
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Gloogloos
Stranger

Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546594 - 08/16/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Been awhile since I shopped dehydrators but last I checked those commercial ones run quite a penny. looking at some right now and they're awfully expensive considering their volume, granted I have only been looking for a few minutes. The way I see it you are still better off building your own, even with heat you could use the exact same design as mine just remove the duct and desiccant and add a simple heater to inlet or move the fan to very bottom, elevate and put an air heating element after the fan. You could probably even do it without a fan or just a very weak one.
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36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: Gloogloos]
#23546631 - 08/16/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Get a regular dehydrator and stick it in a bedroom. Close the door to that room and open the window.
Don't make shit harder than it has to be.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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mrmazdarx9
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Registered: 05/15/16
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: 36fuckin5]
#23547076 - 08/16/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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People on here produce large volumes and dry with dehydrators how much are you talking about You can get a massive one for about £100 brand new here don't know about where you are though
-------------------- COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge COCA GROWERS UNITE
Click here for UK trades
need some supplies in the UK check Here or PM me UK OTD uk members chat UK supplies and trade OTD place to chat shit Right Here If you use "SWIM" you should DROWN
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Piezo
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Registered: 06/17/15
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23547682 - 08/16/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've previously used calcium chlorure in closed enclosure with fans, but it gets really messy. Silica beads are nice as they are clean and can be easily regenerated. But, compared to CaCl, not as efficient in term of mass and volume.
I plan to build a closed circuit dehydrator based on a Peltier module. It's a solid state electric heat-pump : one face gets hot, the other cold.

Humidity condense on the cold side. To avoid freezing I need to find a balance between surface area (eg. by using an aluminium heat-sink on the cold side), airflow (PC fans circulating air in the enclosure) and electrical power (maybe a PWM regulator, with a big passive LP filter in order to avoid destroying the junctions with piezo-vibrations). A PID controller could be a nice addition, but I think the cold side temperature could reach a steady state if the system is well balanced.
The hot side needs to be cooled with heatsink and fan. I need to choose between rejecting the heat outside or reheating the circulating air after dehumidification. The former would cool the circulating air and act like a fridge : less oxidation, but also slower dehydration. The latter would progressively heat the circulating air (the electrical power is consumed to transfer entropy but is in majority converted to a net heat production). It could be manageable if the enclosure is thin and have a lot of surface area. I could regulate the air temperature by mixing air from the outside, but I like the idea of having a sealed enclosure for using inert gas or oxygen traps.
I think peltier modules can be really usefull for people who are both cultivators and electronic hobbyists. For example, we could build custom solutions to control temperature in our (small) cultivation spaces.
I'm currently running tests to find the simplest solution for a dehydrator. (ie. only air speed tuning, without using tons of temp sensors and PID controllers...) I'll keep you updated !
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: 36fuckin5]
#23547738 - 08/16/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Get a regular dehydrator and stick it in a bedroom. Close the door to that room and open the window.
Don't make shit harder than it has to be.
there's always a few threads like this one a week. some people just want to do everything the most backwards way possible
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omgwtfstfu
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: bodhisatta]
#23548084 - 08/16/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I also suffered from a hot ass house this summer and fruits that needed to dried. I just ran it at overnight in a room that I did not sleep in.
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Gloogloos
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Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: Closed circuit Dehydrator idea [Re: omgwtfstfu]
#23559364 - 08/20/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I live in a studio apartment so the only room I can close off is the bathroom, so thats what im doing, but there is no window in the bathroom, just an extremely weak ventilation fan. In the future im just going to build a rectangular tower with a door and just put screens in it, a fan and heating element in the bottom and ducting on top so you can direct the waste air wherever you would like.
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