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thesupersoap33
curious george



Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Chemistry vs. Magic
#23543912 - 08/15/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was talking to someone last night and it got into the organic chemistry of stuff. I just felt like it took all of the fun out of everything. Of course, I'm probably delusional, believing that mushrooms can aid my depression and heal emotional wounds and all that. when it was explained to me, these are just chemical compounds playing in my brain. I guess I'm hoping for some sort of awakening or shift in perception of myself, which I need very badly, like I'm constantly trying to keep a sinking ship afloat from the outside... blah blah blah.
Guess I'm looking for other perspectives. Are these just chemicals? are they illegal because they help people or are they illegal because they have no apparent use? or are they illegal because they alter consciousness?
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Mushroom Forest
peice of substrate



Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 87
Loc: SE USA
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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I prefer the natural but 'to each his own' as they say.
Mushrooms expand the mind.
Big brother doesn't want you to think for yourself, or worse.. Question their authority.
-------------------- Everything I say is fictional and for entertainment purposes only.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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"Just" chemicals...does it matter? Your brain is "just" chemical and electrical reactions...but your conscious experience is obviously very real anyway.
Tripping can no doubt heal and enlighten a person. The underlying mechanisms are not the experience. Feel for yourself.
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yeah



Registered: 02/08/09
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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A change in paradigm and healing of the self is absolutely possible.
You have to give yourself though to expect anything profound and relevant in return otherwise you'll remain at the 'tricks of the mind' / God is a mushroom level of mentality, misunderstanding precursor and effect.
People in segregation (in prison for instance) are finding the effect without the precursor and that's attainable for anyone. Awareness of Christ is receivership of the self and in turn, all. The mushroom is just an opportunity to enter the spiritual slipstream, but as mentioned, without repenting, the visit will often be futile yielding only abstract insignificance.
Radiating and donating heart freely will yield the Kingdom in which you'll feel what you are, what you are giving, what everyone else is (you) and the substance of abode which will ring familiar instantaneously as the love you've always known, the place you've always known and the place and condition to which you'll wish to return. With your heart you encapsulate all and all encapsulates you, returning the same love you donate onehundredfold. It is the absolute which owns and governs all. It is all persons, known and unknown, all planets seen and unseen. It is the entire universe and its boundaries beyond and all rules and science therein. It is you. It is us.
The mushroom does form new life. It's the symbol of a penis for a reason.
It takes two to tango to create life in this dual existance, so be sure not to exclude the giving of yourself. What you give is in direct in direct proportion to what you will receive.
Don't focus on quantity of mushroom, nor what you want to get.
To attain higher consciousness the focus is always on what you will give.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/15/16 03:44 PM)
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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chemistry and magic combine to form epigenetics
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
thesupersoap33 said: I was talking to someone last night and it got into the organic chemistry of stuff. I just felt like it took all of the fun out of everything. Of course, I'm probably delusional, believing that mushrooms can aid my depression and heal emotional wounds and all that. when it was explained to me, these are just chemical compounds playing in my brain. I guess I'm hoping for some sort of awakening or shift in perception of myself, which I need very badly, like I'm constantly trying to keep a sinking ship afloat from the outside... blah blah blah.
Guess I'm looking for other perspectives. Are these just chemicals? are they illegal because they help people or are they illegal because they have no apparent use? or are they illegal because they alter consciousness?
What he was doing is called reductionism, "nothing buttery" (nothing but this or that). It's a dishonest attempt to manipulate those who are not familiar with the multi-dimensional aspects of ANY given experience. I recommend looking into Ken Wilber's "AQAL" methodology which means "All Quadrants All Levels" if you want to better understand my meaning. BTW, taking psychedelics does not automatically cure depression. Many depressions are a direct result of old traumatic events that are trapped in the timelessness of the unconscious. I treat them AND resolve them all the time using hypnotherapy. But for psychedelics to work, they first have to bring traumatic events out of unconsciousness and into consciousness, and secondly they have to be treated therapeutically once they become conscious. Even if one is trained in the use of such techniques, one still requires a therapist to work with during the psychedelic state, and since psychedelic therapy is illegal, those of us who are seasoned psychotherapists are not going to risk our career and our freedom. Besides, an 8 hour trip, for example, at my hourly rate would amount to $1200 for such a session, and my rate is reasonable compared to many others.
This AQAL diagram, if understood correctly, destroys the ridiculous uni-dimensional claims of reductio of a single cause. Moreover, while every state of consciousness has biochemical, bioelectrical, neurophysiological correlates, correlation ≠ causality. Consciousness remains The Mystery and lived experience is greater than the multi-dimensional sum of its parts.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Quote:
thesupersoap33 said: I was talking to someone last night and it got into the organic chemistry of stuff. I just felt like it took all of the fun out of everything. Of course, I'm probably delusional, believing that mushrooms can aid my depression and heal emotional wounds and all that. when it was explained to me, these are just chemical compounds playing in my brain. I guess I'm hoping for some sort of awakening or shift in perception of myself, which I need very badly, like I'm constantly trying to keep a sinking ship afloat from the outside... blah blah blah.
Guess I'm looking for other perspectives. Are these just chemicals? are they illegal because they help people or are they illegal because they have no apparent use? or are they illegal because they alter consciousness?
BIG question which demands you study the origins of the myth that says we are merely electro-chemical machines. It properly begins with this stiff, Wilhelm Wundt and his so-called 'experimental psychology'.  Previous to him this mechanization of life had already been pushed via the likes of Rene Descartes who was the crazy one who said 'i think therefore i am' and from there thunk that all animals were machines and when he and his disciples tortured them their screams of pain and terror were noises from a machine. This truly evil sht tops the insanity charts for me
So, those two are part of a linear group of prominent 'thinkers' who added to the mechanistic myth, and we must seriously ask who this myth suits and how their ideas came to such prominence. Obviously in the inhuman Industrial Revolution they needed workers who would be 'willing' cogs in their factories, and to do this they must push myth which de=grades them' Organized had already set this degradation by guilting everyone born as being a sinner, and nature being 'fallen'. So we can see how the mechanistic paradigm had its foundation in religious degradation!
AND as you see this myth continues with people redusing psychedelic experience to being 'just chemicals'. So study all of this to undermine their evil death cult.
Edited by zzripz (08/16/16 07:50 AM)
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
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Re: Chemistry vs. Magic [Re: zzripz]
#23546336 - 08/16/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Take a larger dose induce ego death
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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thesupersoap33
curious george



Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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"Take a larger dose induce ego death"
will be doing this as soon as they come in.
Yeah. It just made me feel like a hopeful, stupid idiot. A agree with AP (above poster) that my depression is from old trauma. It's the result of a lot of repressed stuff.
I saw this video on what they have been doing in cattle/pig/chicken butcheries as of late and was disgusted. It triggered everything in me. The anger, the helplessness, the WHY. Does it make anyone else sick. Killing sentient beings. I mean, I couldn't even process it, but I know that I've felt like that. Trapped and abandoned and helpless, and pretty much on the block so to speak. That shit is horrible.
And that stuff about the industrial revolution... so wrong. So many people and so many beliefs on here though. We are just chemicals vs. we are more than chemicals. Wish I could just decide lol.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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if the fck-ers could they would bottle the 'chemicals of love' and sell it at a profit! making sure to patent it of course
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Quote:
thesupersoap33 said: We are just chemicals vs. we are more than chemicals. Wish I could just decide lol.
It's only a matter of your point of view...Markos is right on. These are two sides of the same coin.
It is a good habit to be able to let philosophical questions sit open and unresolved in your mind. There is not always a right answer.
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Buckthorn
Stranger

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 4,560
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Chemistry is sealed by hexagons like sigils of a wizard
Mushrooms are more natural and instinctive than magic unless you're buying them from a merchant
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
Sleepwalker said:
Quote:
thesupersoap33 said: We are just chemicals vs. we are more than chemicals. Wish I could just decide lol.
It's only a matter of your point of view...Markos is right on. These are two sides of the same coin.
It is a good habit to be able to let philosophical questions sit open and unresolved in your mind. There is not always a right answer.
This is the methodology of the ancient Greek school of Skeptics. OP needs to understand Phenomenology wherein one [brackets] experiences, performs a Phenomenological Epoché on a given phenomenon whereby it is experienced without reducing it to one perspective alone (this is why Pablo Picasso's art was so weird - he attempted to fuse multiple perspectives onto a sculpture or a painting). Wilber's model has one look at a given phenomenon along axes and levels which fleshes out any given phenomenon about as completely as one is able. Reducing a complex phenomenon to a lesser dimension is what Victor Frankl's 'Dimensional Ontology' is about - how one can utterly misunderstand as in diagrams of solids which when projected from 3-D to 2-D yields contradictory and false conclusions. Clearly, a cylinder is not a composite of a rectangle and a circle, and neither is the stream of consciousness a molecular configuration! 

-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Peyote Road
Stranger

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Experience is the only thing anyone can verify as being real and experience isn't "just" anything, except just experience.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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To me, experience is a matter of faith. We have to have faith that our experiences, as we perceive them, have anything to do with anything. In the end we really have no idea, and are guessing. It is reasonable to do so, one hopes.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Both magic and chemistry have causes and effects...the underlying mystery is obviuosly..the ability to distinguish between magical(supernatural)..and totally natural..or otherwise biochemically..or otherwise biochemistry..or otherwise chemistry..which came from Alchemy for a reason..the alchemists were very open minded in the knowledge...of mind over matter...and Creative Miraculousness...which in a shove in a nutshell..is worth far more than the greater barter that is an effect of something inside or outside ones own body or mind..we are stuck like a jail cell inside our minds forever...we have to be who we are forever..but knowing what were made of..and who or what we are going to be interacting with is a sublime work of art..and a tangent on the Great work so to speak..which is really evident in philosophy..of Marxism..which is the Greater good for the Greater whole..and even Nietzschean effects of iracandescence..which is the radiating light..into and out of the cosmic motion of time..or an essence that is always here in eternity..and is always here as an abominable..abyss..which is the absolute anyways...and the occult can be solved..just by knowing the absolutes in things..and that it self would take away with greater part..than an atrophying of the way to which we would all survive anyways..on and on..is the tangent..growing larger..or otherwise Netzach in Kabbalah..which is the Seventh Sephiroth..indeed each of us is made of terms..coming up in Hod(8th) a little more to the Broomery..is the God given guild of tangental beauty..which is Tiferert..which is the simple claim that left by itself..it would be pure..its only our foolish actions that could have cause suffering or disgrace...for the world..is made of bounty..and bounty is absolute!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
Peyote Road said: Experience is the only thing anyone can verify as being real and experience isn't "just" anything, except just experience.
Quite true, but this tautological statement will have to be reported to the Department of Redundancy Department.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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