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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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They say life isn't fair
#23542293 - 08/14/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I must admit that I'm a sucker for fair dealings. When unfairness and injustice are at play, I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up. They say life isn't fair. Well, it's only unfair because we've decided to make it that way. There's not some phantom force in the world robbing it of fairness. It's man's treatment of his fellow man that is the sole culprit. Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.
Any thoughts?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Under the C
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Is every man and woman born equally healthy and attractive and into an equally wealthy family in an equally beautiful land?
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Is all that stuff what life is about?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Under the C
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: cez]
#23542325 - 08/14/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Now you are shifting topics.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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I don't think so. Why do you think that stuff you responded to op with should be the measure of fairness?
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Last seen: 14 hours, 2 minutes
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Considering the natural world, I believe fairness is a fantasy of the human mind.
When a fly is caught in a spider's web, where is the fairness?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: cez]
#23542358 - 08/14/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: I don't think so. Why do you think that stuff you responded to op with should be the measure of fairness?
How does fairness suddenly equal meaning?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23542374 - 08/14/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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a fantasy of the human mind... close, but I think primateologists find apes also have such a 'concept'. I have read of experiments showing this. It makes sense, that it's 'wired in', in terms of how society (in the case of certain social animals) attempts to shape its members behavior for the greater good; thus if parents have 2 kids they may teach them accordingly.
But in terms of some sort of 'divine right' or 'cosmic justice', I agree there is no evidence of such. As both you & OC already pointed out the evidence is for the contrary position.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Is every man and woman born equally healthy and attractive and into an equally wealthy family in an equally beautiful land?
I wasn't talking about chance. I was referring to the tendency that when something goes awry, when someone says, "Well, life isn't fair," it's disingenuous because much of the unfairness in the world springs from willful human behavior.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23542388 - 08/14/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Considering the natural world, I believe fairness is a fantasy of the human mind.
When a fly is caught in a spider's web, where is the fairness?
I think it's perfectly fair. Sometimes, it's the fly's day to feast parasitically and reproduce; sometimes it's the fly's day to die. What's unfair about that? Human machinations are quite different.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Now you have shifted from it's only unfair because of humans to now it's mostly unfair due to humans.
Any other corrections or will the target keep moving with each new post?
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
cez said: I don't think so. Why do you think that stuff you responded to op with should be the measure of fairness?
How does fairness suddenly equal meaning?
By your response of equal health/land/wealth as criteria of fairness.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: cez]
#23542412 - 08/14/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Now you have shifted from it's only unfair because of humans to now it's mostly unfair due to humans.
Any other corrections or will the target keep moving with each new post?
I did say sole culprit, and in the context of my point, it was correct. I wasn't addressing what you consider unfair. I don't think of that as unfairness.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I must admit that I'm a sucker for fair dealings. When unfairness and injustice are at play, I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up. They say life isn't fair. Well, it's only unfair because we've decided to make it that way. There's not some phantom force in the world robbing it of fairness. It's man's treatment of his fellow man that is the sole culprit. Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.
Any thoughts?
"I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up." is that fair? or are you being mean to yourself?
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: laughingdog]
#23542432 - 08/14/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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lots of pissiness on the board tonite the universe must be having it's period
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: laughingdog]
#23542438 - 08/14/16 10:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say it was a possibly or possibly not rational response, and not look at it in the light of fair/unfair. But that's me.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: laughingdog] 1
#23542442 - 08/14/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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In the animal kingdom, thieves, cheaters, killers, and connivers abound.
For example, the common cuckoo is a brood parasite. It lays its eggs in the nests of other birds. The hen cuckoo flies into to the host's nest, pushes one egg out of the nest, lays an egg, and flies off.
That would be grounds for a murder sentence if the bird was human.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
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Last seen: 14 hours, 2 minutes
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: laughingdog]
#23542447 - 08/14/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: lots of pissiness on the board tonite the universe must be having it's period
that's not fair 
... give me a maxi-pad please
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#23542450 - 08/14/16 10:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Hippocampus



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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: quinn]
#23542885 - 08/15/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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imo morality is based solely on human interests. People tend to believe fairness should be an enforced morality to some degree in a society where viciousness is traded for the benefits of working together toward common and personal ends.
some things just can't be fair all the time. So part of living is learning to accept those things that are out of our control. That's why people say life isn't fair. However I believe that that fact should never be an excuse to not try to be fair in my personal judgement, and support fairness in society.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I must admit that I'm a sucker for fair dealings. When unfairness and injustice are at play, I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up. They say life isn't fair. Well, it's only unfair because we've decided to make it that way. There's not some phantom force in the world robbing it of fairness. It's man's treatment of his fellow man that is the sole culprit. Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.
Any thoughts?
I don't know, but of late here in the USA every time we try to act on any injustices in other areas of the world, we seem to make a bigger mess of things, and it was probably in everyone's best interest for us to stay the fuck out of it. It's part of the horror of the human predicament, as far as I see things.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: CosmicJoke] 1
#23543062 - 08/15/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Every thing alive has the same 2 rules of nature applied to it, which I believe is "fair". Everything born is given a chance to live a life. Everything living will die. That is the equality I see. This is fair. Anything beyond these 2 rules is a subjective experience blending personal choices with the choices of others that control environment that you are born into. These choices can tip the scales of fairness considerably.
Personally if you believe life itself is unfair, your probably right in a certain way, but that is not the unfairness of life itself, that is the unfairness of the choices of people. Sometimes being born into horrible situations or place seems unfair, but nature itself owes nothing, you are alive and will die, like all other things. People though......... choices.......
Babies born with terminal diseases that live days or weeks only, with no real chance and is a random generic gamble no one fault adhere to this same fairness of nature. Maybe the fairness that they die younger, foregoing a long life of physical torment. Modern medicine plays a large part as well, fighting natural process and prolonging unnatural lives that nature would have ended. Humans tipping the scales to push against nature.
My Thoughts and feelings on the subject are constantly shifting slightly as I talk and learn from other people and their experiences. Just striving for understanding.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23543271 - 08/15/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I don't know, but of late here in the USA every time we try to act on any injustices in other areas of the world, we seem to make a bigger mess of things, and it was probably in everyone's best interest for us to stay the fuck out of it. It's part of the horror of the human predicament, as far as I see things.
Really good point. Whenever we try to impose our will, we make everything worse than it was before. I think that's true at multiple levels of social interaction.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: nuentoter]
#23543281 - 08/15/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuentoter said: Every thing alive has the same 2 rules of nature applied to it, which I believe is "fair". Everything born is given a chance to live a life. Everything living will die. That is the equality I see. This is fair. Anything beyond these 2 rules is a subjective experience blending personal choices with the choices of others that control environment that you are born into. These choices can tip the scales of fairness considerably.
Personally if you believe life itself is unfair, your probably right in a certain way, but that is not the unfairness of life itself, that is the unfairness of the choices of people. Sometimes being born into horrible situations or place seems unfair, but nature itself owes nothing, you are alive and will die, like all other things. People though......... choices.......
Babies born with terminal diseases that live days or weeks only, with no real chance and is a random generic gamble no one fault adhere to this same fairness of nature. Maybe the fairness that they die younger, foregoing a long life of physical torment. Modern medicine plays a large part as well, fighting natural process and prolonging unnatural lives that nature would have ended. Humans tipping the scales to push against nature.
My Thoughts and feelings on the subject are constantly shifting slightly as I talk and learn from other people and their experiences. Just striving for understanding.
Very interesting perspective. I agree with you that many situations that are viewed as unfair by most are really just part of the game whose rules are the same for everyone.
This:
Quote:
Personally if you believe life itself is unfair, your probably right in a certain way, but that is not the unfairness of life itself, that is the unfairness of the choices of people.
is precisely my point. Unfairness is really the result of man's treatment of his fellow man, not some abstract principle.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I must admit that I'm a sucker for fair dealings. When unfairness and injustice are at play, I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up. They say life isn't fair. Well, it's only unfair because we've decided to make it that way. There's not some phantom force in the world robbing it of fairness. It's man's treatment of his fellow man that is the sole culprit. Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.
Any thoughts?
by having an ill defined topic much discussion is generated.
fairness in trade is straight forward. putting your thumb on the scales is a metaphor or icon for 'unfairness'.
Hence justice is blindfolded and holds scales.
This notion is not about feelings per se.
- - - - As regards this statement: "Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.' I am mystified. what does it refer to? the insanity defense? I have never heard anybody say something like: "Yes he was badly behaved, but it's ok he was only being unfair." - - - - As regards this statement: "They say life isn't fair." 'life' is ill defined, as you refer both to human actions and to what people say and 'what people say' often refers to non human factors hence all the discussion trying to sort this out. - - - - one thing seems generally accepted, and that is that: fair or not, generally neither complaining, nor resisting or denial, of the experiencing of 'what is' helps; which is not to say one doesn't deal with things.
Wondering if things are fair may at times be a subtle form of complaining. But it sure earns lawyers a lot of money, and has it's place.
Perhaps there is "a time and a place for everything", as they say.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: laughingdog]
#23543788 - 08/15/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: As regards this statement: "Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.' I am mystified. what does it refer to? the insanity defense? I have never heard anybody say something like: "Yes he was badly behaved, but it's ok he was only being unfair."
This statement was intended to refer to the pattern in which people absolve themselves or others of personal responsibility by attributing certain consequences to 'life's being unfair.'
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nuentoter
conduit



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It's more along the lines (IMO) of:
Why did you steal from me?
I did what I to do to get by, I'm sorry.
That doesn't excuse stealing from a friend.
Yeah but I've had a hard life and that's how I've survive and it's hard to shake old habits you know?
Not really, but OK, don't do that again, and you've lost some trust.
I see these types of behavioral patterns all around, copping out behavior in the guise of poor conditioning beyond their control (life was unfair) when in reality it's just poor decisions. I understand things like personal history can taint and skew someone view to where these actions and decisions are justified, but that only lasts until adolescence, then you start to learn that your norm isn't the only way things can be.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,564
Loc: Utah
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I must admit that I'm a sucker for fair dealings. When unfairness and injustice are at play, I, perhaps irrationally, get worked up. They say life isn't fair. Well, it's only unfair because we've decided to make it that way. There's not some phantom force in the world robbing it of fairness. It's man's treatment of his fellow man that is the sole culprit. Writing behavior off to unfairness is a cop out.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, pretty much.
I think it's more of a warning than it is advocating for unfairness. It's trying to say "hey, listen, the world is unfair as fuck. Be careful, and get used to it." Not "the world should be unfair."
We should all try to make the world a better place in our own ways, but despite all our efforts the world is going to be unfair as fuck, and full of assholes, and people need to be aware of that.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: They say life isn't fair [Re: nooneman]
#23544428 - 08/15/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's true.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I don't know, but of late here in the USA every time we try to act on any injustices in other areas of the world, we seem to make a bigger mess of things, and it was probably in everyone's best interest for us to stay the fuck out of it. It's part of the horror of the human predicament, as far as I see things.
Really good point. Whenever we try to impose our will, we make everything worse than it was before. I think that's true at multiple levels of social interaction.
Do you feel that's because the USA, or other nations, generally try to step in and provide help when it is not asked for? Or is it often requested before action is taken?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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life isn't fair, see, the attempts at trying to be fair by people in positions of power. it's frankly impossible for the human mind to act in a fair and justified manner, when it plainly comes down to it.
Edited by akira_akuma (08/16/16 09:21 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I don't know, but of late here in the USA every time we try to act on any injustices in other areas of the world, we seem to make a bigger mess of things, and it was probably in everyone's best interest for us to stay the fuck out of it. It's part of the horror of the human predicament, as far as I see things.
Really good point. Whenever we try to impose our will, we make everything worse than it was before. I think that's true at multiple levels of social interaction.
Do you feel that's because the USA, or other nations, generally try to step in and provide help when it is not asked for? Or is it often requested before action is taken?
No, I think it's more that the brass at the top wants to enforce it's neoliberal "globalist" agenda in geopolitically and economically strategic places. It's all about money and power.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I don't know, but of late here in the USA every time we try to act on any injustices in other areas of the world, we seem to make a bigger mess of things, and it was probably in everyone's best interest for us to stay the fuck out of it. It's part of the horror of the human predicament, as far as I see things.
Really good point. Whenever we try to impose our will, we make everything worse than it was before. I think that's true at multiple levels of social interaction.
Do you feel that's because the USA, or other nations, generally try to step in and provide help when it is not asked for? Or is it often requested before action is taken?
No, I think it's more that the brass at the top wants to enforce it's neoliberal "globalist" agenda in geopolitically and economically strategic places. It's all about money and power.
Yep.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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