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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: qman]
    #23556592 - 08/19/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I guess not.




So you're too embarrassed to answer the question.




Thats rich, considering im the one who proposed the question.




Let's assume I know what communism means, who makes sure that the people who are in charge of equality behave ethically?




:lol:

It would depend on how the society is structured. Communism exists in the absence of the state, so its hard for us to imagine. Marx said capitalism will transition to socialism which will transition to communism. And whatever you think of communism, Marx has been spot on about the decline of capitalism. 

I think the impending jobless economy will force us to figure out that structure sooner rather than later.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23556602 - 08/19/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
communism failed and the answer from those who agree with centralized economics is that it hasnt been tried and none of us know what it is.




communism has never been seriously attempted on a large scale.

What Stalin and Mao did was co opt a term to make their authoritarian dictatorships more acceptable to the public. Hitler did the same with socialism. Hillary is doing the same with liberals.

To use Stalin as a refutation of communism is like me saying democratic republics are refuted because of the DPRK.



its always going to go authoritarian because millions cant govern or own things like that. communism is cute in theory, but the real world on a large scale doesnt work like that. That is too much authority in one place




The cornerstone of communism is decentralized authority, from the refutation of the existence of the state, to worker owned businesses controlling the economy.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23556603 - 08/19/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

anomie will take care of capitalism.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23556616 - 08/19/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you are so bacward its painful

the state is a product of society, society is not the product of a state
capitalism is he self structuring of society, communism asumes the state structures society

yu also need the culteral precepts and people capable of making a coherent society

communiam is based on the idea of the prolitariot rising up and siezing the means of production, which wont ever happen outside a revolution. revolutions dont turn out well. we were fortunate ours did., as it coyld have turned out like the French Revolution


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23556628 - 08/19/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I never said society was a product of the state.

Otherwise communism would be impossible.


Wtf are you talking about


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23556662 - 08/19/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

communism asumes the state structures society




no, communism is stateless, by definition.

think about that.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23556818 - 08/19/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
communism failed and the answer from those who agree with centralized economics is that it hasnt been tried and none of us know what it is.




communism has never been seriously attempted on a large scale.

What Stalin and Mao did was co opt a term to make their authoritarian dictatorships more acceptable to the public. Hitler did the same with socialism. Hillary is doing the same with liberals.

To use Stalin as a refutation of communism is like me saying democratic republics are refuted because of the DPRK.





After saying something as intelligently vacant as this you should be banned from all future debating..

Ever heard of the CCCP or the USSR?  You know, the UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS.

Tell me again how that is not communism.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #23556877 - 08/19/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
communism failed and the answer from those who agree with centralized economics is that it hasnt been tried and none of us know what it is.




communism has never been seriously attempted on a large scale.

What Stalin and Mao did was co opt a term to make their authoritarian dictatorships more acceptable to the public. Hitler did the same with socialism. Hillary is doing the same with liberals.

To use Stalin as a refutation of communism is like me saying democratic republics are refuted because of the DPRK.





After saying something as intelligently vacant as this you should be banned from all future debating..

Ever heard of the CCCP or the USSR?  You know, the UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS.

Tell me again how that is not communism.




He already did in the quote you posted, Mr. Fittingname.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #23557058 - 08/19/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
communism failed and the answer from those who agree with centralized economics is that it hasnt been tried and none of us know what it is.




communism has never been seriously attempted on a large scale.

What Stalin and Mao did was co opt a term to make their authoritarian dictatorships more acceptable to the public. Hitler did the same with socialism. Hillary is doing the same with liberals.

To use Stalin as a refutation of communism is like me saying democratic republics are refuted because of the DPRK.





After saying something as intelligently vacant as this you should be banned from all future debating..

Ever heard of the CCCP or the USSR?  You know, the UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS.

Tell me again how that is not communism.



:rofl: Debating this topic is fucking hilarious,

> Explains why so called historical communisms were nothing but authoritarian top down wealth/power/ego schemes and communism has never existed nor even been attempted to be implemented

> Somebody writes USSR

> Repeat


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: twighead]
    #23557091 - 08/19/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

they can't help it, you can't blame em. They've been raised from a young age to think this way, and vice versa of course


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: Ezuma]
    #23557105 - 08/19/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ay I was raised to think the same things as well :lol:

Just takes a wee bit of effort to actually see things as they were/are not how we were told they are.


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: twighead]
    #23557117 - 08/19/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Theres not much excuse for ignorance anymore with so much information at your fingertips.

Especially when you're sitting at a terminal.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: propensity]
    #23557445 - 08/19/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

what is the mechanism in which the 'peoplel conroll the resoures?
without a cetalized authority it cant work

you are talking about anarchism, a lack of a state. communism is the opposte of that.


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Offlineanthiawe
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23559119 - 08/20/16 04:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

anyone read Marx? he himself didn't really define communism or describe what it would look like, he focused more on the problems of capitalism, which he was the first to define and articulate. He claimed that the force of capitalism would turn into communism through revolution because of the increased inequalities and disparities for the working classes. He believed that urban workers would begin a revolution and go towards communism in which all would be redistributed and shared. Mao changed it a bit saying the force of change would come from rural areas. socialists feel that more equality can be achieved through regulating capitalism. their problem is that they see culture as something that they can change as they see fit and change with their policy to suit state control...a good example is Tanzania and Julius Nyerere who tried to settle nomadic peoples in the country by creating new villages in which the settlements of course would have to pay tax and farm for the state. I can say that Socialism doesn't work in non western states because it runs on western ideas which do not coincide with non western lifestyle, the nomads as an example - pastoralists in Ethiopia and Somalia have seen similar issues under socialism. As for western states and socialism, I think Europe is a good example of what can be achieved through regulated capitalism, like Finlands education system. A conundrum that will still exists though is that these social benefits are often maintained financially through extraction of resources from poor countries and keeping them as producers of primary commodities for export and as cheap labour so the capital can be extracted and brought home (to finland, US, Canada, or wherever).


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TEK compendium


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23559231 - 08/20/16 06:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
what is the mechanism in which the 'peoplel conroll the resoures?
without a cetalized authority it cant work

you are talking about anarchism, a lack of a state. communism is the opposte of that.




Why dont you read the Communist Manifesto and find out?

Hell, if you dont want to read it yourself there are audiobooks on youtube. Its seriously like a 40 minute listen, its a short, concise book.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: twighead]
    #23559245 - 08/20/16 06:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
communism has never existed nor even been attempted to be implemented





WRONG


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Racist Muslims at the Olympics [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 1
    #23559319 - 08/20/16 07:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:

WRONG





Nothing communist about that, that is a patriarchy where 1 guy is the head and holds the power in all matters. Not a communist principle by any means.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Racist Muslims at the OlympicsIThe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23559333 - 08/20/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Ive lived in 9 relatively large metro areas in my life and ive never seen a single homeless child.


Thats not to say there arent any, but it lends credence to the perception that homelessness is just a lazy adult problem.




No, it means that children are very well-protected in this society, and if a child is ever homeless, it is usually quickly reported by concerned citizens and the police and CPS get involved. Homeless children are always quickly given immediate shelter and taken away from their families, whereas adults are pretty much left on their own. So if you see homeless children begging with adults, it is almost always a scam. If they were truly homeless an agency would have intervened to do something for the child the second it was reported.


Edited by Crystal G (08/20/16 09:23 AM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Racist Muslims at the OlympicsIThe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23559354 - 08/20/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
do you somehow think that children cant also be homeless?

here's an example of what I was saying, that people use their children to gain sympathy and panhandle even more cash from the retards that give it to them
http://www.cbs46.com/story/27610502/panhandlers-using-children-to-collect-money
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2830761/Outraged-shopper-captures-pregnant-woman-son-begging-money-driving-MERCEDES-BENZZ.html

and here's the other thing you apparently dont see in your sheltered life






I have no doubt that this sort of stuff happens. Like the recent case with the child who hadn't eaten in days and was caught by a police officer trying to sell his teddy bear in exchange for food. Neglect and lack of food in the house pantry because the parents don't have the funds to buy food is most definitely a real phenomenon.

But bear in mind they have also made these same news articles in my area about how "an epidemic of college students are going hungry." They estimated 2/3rds of college students at some universities are "going hungry," and by this it doesn't mean they are not eating for days. It simply means they don't have enough money to buy 1 meal sometimes, so they skip meals every now and then, or they are eating 500+ calories less than the recommended 2,000 calorie diet. It's really not as bad as the news organizations try to make it out to be.

Look at this guy that the Washington Post uses as an example:

Quote:

But he had trouble affording the $50 a week he had budgeted for food and ended up having to get two jobs to pay for it. “Almost as bad as the hunger itself is the stress that you’re going to be hungry,” said Vaughn, 22, now in his fifth year at GMU.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/more-college-students-battle-hunger-as-education-and-living-costs-rise/2014/04/09/60208db6-bb63-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html

What the hell is this guy doing, I always ate at roughly $50 a week for just myself, and I have been able to eat healthy, organic, whole foods. I would even have enough left over in the week to eat eating sashimi-grade salmon or prosciutto and expensive cheese from Whole Foods every now and then.

If this guy is truly out of money and suffering from "hunger" like this article insinuates, he would have bought some rice and beans and spent maybe $10 a week on food. Even less if he were to buy in bulk from online. I buy a 10lb bag of tricolor quinoa for $30, and bear in mind a half pound of quinoa has lasted me roughly 1 week, and that is eating it every day as my main meal, no protein or anything else except cheap vegetables like kale and tomato mixed in with the quinoa, which I did on occasions when I was short of money.

Chicken thighs are only 99 cents per pound. A bushel of kale that lasts a week costs 99 cents. A dozen eggs cost 99 cents. How is this guy not able to feed himself with a budget of close to $50 a week? He can spend $3 on all the protein he needs for the week, another $2 or $3 for grains, and another $2 or $3 for vegetables, and that's really all you need.

These are the types of students that are considered to be "going hungry," AKA people who have a hard time meeting a $50 a week grocery budget, so they might have a $1 burger from McD's instead of eating a real nutritious meal. And then they feel hungry after eating the burger because it's not enough food, so they are technically "going hungry."

In America, you are apparently considered "going hungry" if you are hungry for more than 3 hours.

And I clicked those links you posted by the way, and those instances listed are all scam artists using children to get money. They are not actually homeless, starving children. If you even read one of those articles, it says that the scam artist who was using her child drove away in a $35,000 Mercedes, and the license plate was tracked to an apartment where rent rates are $2,500 a month.


Edited by Crystal G (08/20/16 08:53 AM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Racist Muslims at the OlympicsIThe [Re: Crystal G]
    #23559437 - 08/20/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Typical progressive argument: communism hasn't worked becuase the right people haven't done it correctly, if only we could do it here in the US with democrats in charge, it would work, I tell ya! Bernie 2016!


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