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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Yep there is the ODs prevented by standard purity and dose, but also the reduction in blood borne illnesses from addicts not sharing needles and having a safe clean environment with nurses doing the shots, which also cuts out absesses and collapsed veins and stuff from bad injection technique.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546026 - 08/16/16 05:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: If Heroin was legal, it would not be nearly as harmful overall. No question about that, places like switzerland have tried legal heroin clinics for addicts and its been proven to work for harm reduction.
I would still feel its a bit "evil" to be that dependent on something (If I was the addict) but the harm is massively reduced.
Thats true. And supposedly Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: If Heroin was legal, it would not be nearly as harmful overall.
I suspect standardization of purity would put an end to a lot of OD's. Seems to me that the varying purity is what kills a lot of people.
@both you two
Ya I agree. But it wouldn't be the same level of "evil" i think. I mean back in the day, being on drugs was not something that defined your entire persona. similar to being anti-depressants I guess. Like ya I guess anti-depressants do fuck a lot of people up. And they sure as hell are ridden with health issues and side effects. But its not stigmatized. And its not like a peson's entire life/personal identity is associated with that drug if that makes sense. Drugs have been legal for most of human history. And IMO at least from my experience as an Amp addict, it basically is just more likely to effect the user. My entire sleep/dosing/eating/exercise sched was carefully noted daily to make sure I wouldn't exercise after my amp dose. I would be able to eat and sleep properly etc.
I could have def been happier but compared to lives of addicts on the streets its a walk in the park. I was depressed and anxiety ridden. But I got A's and B's in school. And the key factor to me that separated my life from say a cocaine user on the streets is the regulated purity, responsible dosing sched, and keeping other aspects of my life in check. only 1-2 friends knew I was basically wired 24/7. The responsible drug use in other words was not healthy or positive in its effect on my life. Period. Not slightly. But it WAS functional and way better that the life of most stim addicts
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Glameow

Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 179
Loc: Ireland
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546037 - 08/16/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: If Heroin was legal, it would not be nearly as harmful overall. No question about that, places like switzerland have tried legal heroin clinics for addicts and its been proven to work for harm reduction.
I would still feel its a bit "evil" to be that dependent on something (If I was the addict) but the harm is massively reduced.
Is it evil to be dependant on insulin? Food? Cannabis (to function without anxiety)? Pain killers when in severe pain?
Humans are dependant on alot...that doesn't make those things inherently evil.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Glameow] 2
#23546055 - 08/16/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree. But its the addicts themselves, opiate addicts, who describe it that way. I simply take the word of the people who know what they are talking about. Meth users say the same.
Virtually every meth user I have met and most online describe meth as evil, satan, the devil, demonic.
They really see it that way. Not just a few, LOTS of meth users say that.
I am not going to argue with them. They see it as evil.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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LeningradCowboy
Yes, my name is you?



Registered: 08/01/15
Posts: 1,962
Loc: Siperia underground
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546124 - 08/16/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Moonshoe I agree with you on that subject....I consider Meth molecule with evil spirit....As I consider Lsd as a message/medicine from God/cosmos/all filled with Love.
And Yes I has a history of meth abuse.
-------------------- From tundra with love!
FREE HAMHEAD 2020!
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Their well being, aids, OD's, arent the harm, the harm is what they do to other people my friend just robbed his grandma's house again
meth, crack, heroin, fuck them and those addicted
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546251 - 08/16/16 08:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: I agree. But its the addicts themselves, opiate addicts, who describe it that way. I simply take the word of the people who know what they are talking about. Meth users say the same.
Virtually every meth user I have met and most online describe meth as evil, satan, the devil, demonic.
They really see it that way. Not just a few, LOTS of meth users say that.
I am not going to argue with them. They see it as evil.
Well just something to think about. I mean "I tried meth and it was not that fun *shrug*" is not a worthwhile story. These kinds of stories don't spread. They aren't entertaining. I am not gonna say ignore anecdotes, but take them with a pinch of salt. You hear the same thing from people about DMT. Someone told me that their friend's friend went insane and ate someone else's face off. Or on LSD, if you trip three times you are legally insane (done acid 10+ times. Not insane). Or if you try heavy opiates once you are garunteed to be addicted (done opium 20+ times). With each one of these "one heard" stories, there is usually some level of truth in it. Sometimes those stories are complete bullshit though. and as such, its best to go for lab cotnrolled studies, logic and evidence etc. to ground your worldviews
that being said, in my eyes (based primarily on science and secondarily on anecdote): meth, alc, crack, coke, xanax, heroin is the order from greatest to least of the big ones. With those I think you are sort of playing with fire
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Glameow

Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 179
Loc: Ireland
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe] 1
#23546369 - 08/16/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: I agree. But its the addicts themselves, opiate addicts, who describe it that way. I simply take the word of the people who know what they are talking about. Meth users say the same.
Virtually every meth user I have met and most online describe meth as evil, satan, the devil, demonic.
They really see it that way. Not just a few, LOTS of meth users say that.
I am not going to argue with them. They see it as evil.
My husband is an ex heroin and crack addict. The drugs are not "evil" to him, it's how they're used.
The drugs did not cause the addiction. They caused dependency. .but addiction is caused by something else..like wanting to escape life. The drugs themselves cannot be evil. And addicts blaming it..is just more of the same old propaganda of blaming the substance to further prohibition. .rather than blaming prohibition and lack or regulation and education for the harms. Also lack of any real help.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: topdog82] 1
#23546393 - 08/16/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you think that the meth addicts calling it evil is anything like the nonsense urban legends and lies about paychedelics you are dangerously naieve
The stories about meth are very, very real
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (08/16/16 09:35 AM)
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GoodStrong
Happy to Be Here



Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 527
Loc: Boston, MA
Last seen: 11 days, 10 hours
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546403 - 08/16/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Treat your body as if it is shared. View your life as if every little thing you has an effect on another person. That way every time you boot up, you'll have a voice in the back of your head from one of your loved ones who doesn't abuse drugs. Try to fuse your mind with the positive aspects of life and kick your habit if you view it as negative.
-------------------- It will always be your time to shine!
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Deathbystarfish
Agnostic shaman



Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 83
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: Thanks for that price guesstimate death by star fish. I was immediately wondering how much that much dope would cost.
Are there a fair bit of users that clean thier stuff up or is it all junkie score and shoot?
Most people draw through a small piece of cotton to try and get ot as pure as possible in the needle.
I have to say I'm actually happy I can talk about my experiences and not have any triggers from remembering baddtimes. A few months ago. The last time I really talked about the stuff led me to have some weird daydreams it was so vivid that I could feel the rush. I would come out of the daydream and want to get high
-------------------- Free spore ring earth Cover the planet in free spores. Get some spore prints and give some. Its not hard Lil shop of spores They got it all. One of the oldest sites The undelusionist Controlling misunderstood situations in the way we perceive reality in early childhood development which lead to psychological errors in judgement whenever those situation rise again later in life.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546412 - 08/16/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Meth literally burns out the dopamine receptors in your brain over time and reduces the overall pleasure you get out of anything else
That's just one reason why it's so hard for people to just stop doing it, it also has a massive compulsive draw to many of those who are addicted to it.. Meaning that if it's in the vicinity they might find themselves doing it even though they don't really want to.. in some circles people are actually forced into doing it and if they don't they're considered a narc
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Moonshoe]
#23546457 - 08/16/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: If you think that the meth addicts calling it evil is anything like the nonsense urban legends and lies about paychedelics you are dangerously naieve
The stories about meth are very, very real
naw I think we are talking past each other. Being addicted to a substance that makes it so you cant eat or sleep or fuck properly sounds horrible. I am just saying that you should base your worldviews on science first and foremost. THEN anecdotes. ALWAYS take anecdotes with a pinch of salt. ESPECIALLY with drugs. In the case of the meth, the anecdotes and science match up to create a grim picture. For DMT, what I was "told" or "Heard" from friends versus actually doing it were completely different. NOT saying you should just ignore anecdotes. but science should take precedence
A buddy of mine was roomies with a serious meth addict and it just sounds like bad news. REALLY bad news. In addition to the science showing ridiculous neurotoxicty etc.
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Perception7
Psilocin Technician



Registered: 01/10/16
Posts: 403
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: topdog82] 1
#23546549 - 08/16/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The drugs themselves are not inherently evil or immoral or unethical - it is what we do with them as humans that makes the combination of the human body/mind and the substance evil. One could even say that the substance often times is a precursor to evil. Haven't you heard the expression, "it takes two to tango"? Humanity, for the most part, cannot handle the drugs interaction, intoxication, etc.. without being drawn back to its powerful effects again and again.
All of our genetics are different and unique and there are some that can use heroin and not become addicted and never have cravings after use, this is rare of course, and shouldn't be expected if you are considering trying it. My opinion is that its safe to say you should never try it, and you should stay as far away from the substance as possible. Just as there are plants and other animals/bugs/reptiles that can kill us with their potent venoms, the venom is not by itself evil.. it is just something we should stay away from.
Its quite simple really.
Edited by Perception7 (08/16/16 01:36 PM)
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Sheekle
FREE BURKE



Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Perception7]
#23546793 - 08/16/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good job modestmouse, you really riled up the scientificer than though hippies with this thread
-------------------- "Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods "I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago "you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard "The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist "Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft "or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Sheekle]
#23547156 - 08/16/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been clean off heroin for coming up on 45 days. I could put it down until I started banging it. After I started banging it I was like "finally I'm comfortable and nothing is missing... I wanna feel like this forever." Very quickly my life went down hill and was a certified slime ball dope fiend. Glad that shit is behind me though.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Perception7]
#23548018 - 08/16/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Perception7 said: The drugs themselves are not inherently evil or immoral or unethical - it is what we do with them as humans that makes the combination of the human body/mind and the substance evil. One could even say that the substance often times is a precursor to evil. Haven't you heard the expression, "it takes two to tango"? Humanity, for the most part, cannot handle the drugs interaction, intoxication, etc.. without being drawn back to its powerful effects again and again.
All of our genetics are different and unique and there are some that can use heroin and not become addicted and never have cravings after use, this is rare of course, and shouldn't be expected if you are considering trying it. My opinion is that its safe to say you should never try it, and you should stay as far away from the substance as possible. Just as there are plants and other animals/bugs/reptiles that can kill us with their potent venoms, the venom is not by itself evil.. it is just something we should stay away from.
Its quite simple really.
i agree 100%
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: ModestMouse] 2
#23548857 - 08/17/16 03:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Drugs aren't evil. Heroin or one of it's cousins is really fucking useful if you are in excruciating pain. You probably shouldn't be using it recreationally. Hardly anyone can responsibly. Blame the human.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: PSA don't fucking do heroin [Re: Shroomism]
#23551213 - 08/17/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Of course an inanimate object can't posess any anthropomorphized tendencies, but heroin addiction is one of the most soul stealing insidious things known to man. I lived it man, it's hell. Shot dope for 2 years got on suboxone then shot dope for 4 more years till I got clean a month ago.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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I'm not saying it's not bad when abused... but it takes two to tango brotha.
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