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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: 'Tree' is actually an indeterminate object. At the root level, the micro-hairs cannot be separated from the soil from which it feeds. And even if you could, to remove a tree from its environment is to kill it.
it is like the word "hand". There is no such thing except as a convenient descriptor. A hand removed from the body is not a hand (without nerves and tendons, it performs no functions) - and attached to the body, is not a separate entity that can specifically demarcated.
Actually the question was 'what is a tree made of?' 'not what is a tree?'
perhaps it's odd to point this out?; and perhaps he meant something other that what he posted?
but actually no definition was requested.
In terms of what a tree is your point about connectedness seems valid, but fails to distinguish between a tree and a hand.
- - - - -
SHUZAN held up his staff and waved it before his monks.
"If you call this a staff," he said, "you deny its eternal life. If you do not call this a staff, you deny its present fact. Tell me just what do you propose to call it?"
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Zen Master Seung Sahn held up his staff in front of old Shifu Miao Zhang, and said "Then, Miao Zhang, what are this staff, this sound and your mind? Are they the same or different? If you say "same," I will hit you thirty times. If you say "different," I will also hit you thirty times. Why?" Miao Zhang lifted his cane slowly and pointed it at Seung Sahn's face, and then he said "Don't know! Same or different, nobody can hit the sound of our minds."
- - - -
Zen Master Shuzan held out his short staff in front of his Daoist friend, Shifu Miao Zhang, and said "If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality and are clinging. If you do not call it a short staff, then you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?" Miao Zhang smiled, dropped and pointed to his cane, and said "Yesterday it was a wooden walking stick that helped without speaking. Tomorrow it may become firewood, crackling in the flames."
Edited by laughingdog (08/18/16 01:35 AM)
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Maybe there is no separation between a tree and your hand, only perception separates them.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: what is a tree made of? [Re: nuentoter]
#23552299 - 08/18/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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can you pick apples off your hand?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: what is a tree made of? [Re: nuentoter]
#23553331 - 08/18/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuentoter said: Maybe there is no separation between a tree and your hand, only perception separates them.
did you miss this, from the post above?:
Zen Master Shuzan held out his short staff in front of his Daoist friend, Shifu Miao Zhang, and said "If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality and are clinging. If you do not call it a short staff, then you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?"
this issue was clarified hundreds of years ago
the response is even included above
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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I read it
The response is useless btw, koans are designed to be paradoxical and made to bring questions not answers.
They are generally used to show the inadequacy of the logical path of thinking
Simply to do the same using my words, create question.
I do not believe the intention of a koan is to clarify anything, but rather purposely muddy it up
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: what is a tree made of? [Re: nuentoter]
#23561996 - 08/21/16 01:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuentoter said: I read it
The response is useless btw, koans are designed to be paradoxical and made to bring questions not answers.
They are generally used to show the inadequacy of the logical path of thinking
Simply to do the same using my words, create question.
I do not believe the intention of a koan is to clarify anything, but rather purposely muddy it up
apparently you think they all function the same way, and are at the same level, oh well ...
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theGODSmademedoit

Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 516
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madr of carbon..
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nothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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a tree, like every thing, is made of sun.
it yearns, as we all do, to reconnect with the source energy.
-------------------- i like you...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Start small first. See if you can merge with a steel smelter.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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"People look at a tree and think it comes out of the ground, that plants grow out of the ground, " he says, but "if you ask, where does the substance [of the tree] come from? You find out ... trees come out of the air!" Richard Feynman
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: what is a tree made of? [Re: zzripz]
#23569517 - 08/23/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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air + water. elixir of life.
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psillyboy
Florida man



Registered: 09/26/14
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Loc: In the 60's
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: What is a plant's favorite beer?
Root Beer of course.
-------------------- "True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country - K. Vonnegut “The real truth, that dare not speak itself, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one.” ― Terence McKenna "LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have never taken it." - Timothy Leary
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: what is a tree made of? [Re: psillyboy]
#23570230 - 08/23/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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5 letters
a t r e e
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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For those with poor public speaking skills in an open hall: a tree um
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