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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G]
    #23539614 - 08/14/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Figured you'd say that and also figured you'd say it in that fashion.

i don't recognize that death cult as a religion. It goes against American values.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23539620 - 08/14/16 01:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Every group of people with a cause is self-interested and every group has their hand out demanding their slice of the pie, and some are louder than others because saying something loudly and often makes it true.  That's progress.  That's America.  Everyone's self-interested for the greater good.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G]
    #23539624 - 08/14/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
I just want to get rid of mosques and made a half-assed attempt to make my reasons for doing so seem altruistic.

:elmo:




Evangelical Christians are so hypocritical, they claim to be about American values, but at the same time they don't really value freedom of religion or free speech.

And then they bitch that Democrats are traitors because they think they want to do away with the 2nd amendment (which is a straw man, but that's what they think).





democrats dont want free speech either, they want government approved speech


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G]
    #23539630 - 08/14/16 01:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
all about American values but want to ban Islam. .



I see nothing contradictory about this.




It goes against the freedom of religion, the very 1st Amendment, which is the very reason Americans fought so hard to emancipate themselves from the British Empire.

Or are you not aware of your own country's history?





the first amendment, you mean the one that promises free speech, freedom of the
press and freedom of religion, the same amendment that liberals want to gut along
with the second amendment, liberals dont want hate speech, they want christianity
banned and only the state approved liberal news is appropriate


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23539631 - 08/14/16 01:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Islam would also impede on free speech in many ways. especially for women.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23539633 - 08/14/16 01:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
I just want to get rid of mosques and made a half-assed attempt to make my reasons for doing so seem altruistic.

:elmo:




Evangelical Christians are so hypocritical, they claim to be about American values, but at the same time they don't really value freedom of religion or free speech.

And then they bitch that Democrats are traitors because they think they want to do away with the 2nd amendment (which is a straw man, but that's what they think).





democrats dont want free speech either, they want government approved speech

the first amendment, you mean the one that promises free speech, freedom of the
press and freedom of religion, the same amendment that liberals want to gut along
with the second amendment, liberals dont want hate speech, they want christianity
banned and only the state approved liberal news is appropriate




No we don't, we might criticize Christianity and other religions, but none of us are actually calling for the raiding of churches and for priests to be imprisoned. At most, we argue that churches should pay for taxes, and any religious connotation and prayer should be taken out of schools and public property, which makes sense considering separation of church and state.

None of us are calling for the banning of Fox News or to make Trump's type of rhetoric illegal, we might actively criticize it and protest against it, but that is us exercising our right to free speech as well.

Nobody is trying to take your guns away either, they simply want to implement sensible restrictions that would make it more difficult for certain types of high-risk people to obtain guns. Like how does a guy on the No-Fly zone because of terrorism still have the capacity to acquire a gun? Makes no sense.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle]
    #23539635 - 08/14/16 01:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
Islam would also impede on free speech in many ways. especially for women.




No it wouldn't, just because Islam is practiced by some people doesn't mean it would supersede American constitutional law. Explain to me how on earth Islam would make free speech illegal or impede on it. That would only be the case if Sharia Law replaced the US constitution, which is an absurd notion.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23539639 - 08/14/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The no-fly list makes no sense and should be abolished.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G] * 2
    #23539640 - 08/14/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Explain to me how on earth Islam would make free speech illegal or impede on it.




I'm muslim.  You're a woman.  If you talk too much shit, I'm going to throw acid on your face.

See how that might have a bit of a "chilling effect" on speech?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23539642 - 08/14/16 02:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
Should we ban mosques? Or at least any that have a record of teaching harmful ideology and encouraging(sometimes funding and engaging in) terrorism?


I know it sounds extreme but i feel like there are too many mosques and Americans are just not ready for that. Maybe make them stand out less and don't have the half moon and star on the roof. I say this so that the places wont be so easy to recognize and target by upset Americans.

Theres plenty of humble churches in plain buildings and honestly they have great services and sense of community just like the "cathedral" kinds.

just brainstorming because i think things are going to escalate




Jesus dude.

A Muslim preacher was shot and you think mosques are the problem?





what do you believe the problem is?

think about this

dylan roof killed 9 people and a flag was the problem

an islamic radical shoots a bunch of gays in a bar and the gun was the problem

he simply applied liberal logic to this, why are you so offended by liberal logic all of a sudden?




Nobody said Roof shot up the church because of the confederate flag. The flag became an issue because roof was a white supremacist and the confederate flag is a symbol of white supremacy. It is also a symbol of treason against the US. If you want to fly the flag that's fine, but it is not an appropriate symbol for a state to be flying.

As for Orlando, the fact that an Islamic radical can legally buy a weapon of mass death is certainly part of the problem.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Crystal G]
    #23539643 - 08/14/16 02:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
and any religious connotation and prayer should be taken out of schools and public property, which makes sense considering separation of church and state.





Why should religion and especially prayer be removed?

and before you answer, consider that the second part of your sentence isn't accurate.

The seperation of Church and State doesn't deal with school and the practices that take place there
**************************************************************************************
Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
The intent of this clause was to limit the power of the Federal Government in regard to religion thus ensuring freedom of religion in the United States of America.





Quote:

The phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,
“ "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1]



***********************************************************************************
Quote:

Crystal G said:Nobody is trying to take your guns away either



Unless you're calling Her "nobody", this is just wrong.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Enlil]
    #23539646 - 08/14/16 02:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Explain to me how on earth Islam would make free speech illegal or impede on it.




I'm muslim.  You're a woman.  If you talk too much shit, I'm going to throw acid on your face.

See how that might have a bit of a "chilling effect" on speech?



Thank you.

I think it was a troll statement anyway.

I doubt she really overlooked such an obvious conflict of ideas.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle]
    #23539647 - 08/14/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:

Why should religion and especially prayer be removed?





Because it violates the Establishment clause:

Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion




To have prayer in a public school is to use the power of government to officially endorse religion.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Enlil]
    #23539653 - 08/14/16 02:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Only if Congress mandates it.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Enlil]
    #23539654 - 08/14/16 02:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Explain to me how on earth Islam would make free speech illegal or impede on it.




I'm muslim.  You're a woman.  If you talk too much shit, I'm going to throw acid on your face.

See how that might have a bit of a "chilling effect" on speech?




AFAIK, there has never been one case of an acid attack committed by a Muslim anywhere in the West simply because he didn't like a woman's speech. Acid attacks do happen, especially in India and the Middle East, but they tend to happen for much more personal reasons usually related to the same reasons people commit domestic violence. A rejection or divorce, for example. Colombia has twice the rate of acid attacks as Pakistan per capita, for these domestic violence reasons.

I have stated previously in other threads that I don't support Muslim refugees in large numbers coming into America for this reason, because people from these countries simply don't know the proper way to treat women and LGBT minorities. That's the simple truth. My European friends who are close to the refugee crisis have also reported the same thing. And bear in mind, many of them at first were reluctant to say anything bad about refugees, because they wanted to be hopeful and give them the benefit of the doubt.

But with the USA only agreeing to accept 100,000 refugees from all countries by the year 2017, and with the Muslim population being only 1% of the population (most of them being black American or Southeast Asian), we don't have this problem of extremists taking over the country. And therefore we have really not had much of a problem with them expressing their religion protected under law.


Edited by Crystal G (08/14/16 02:15 AM)


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle]
    #23539656 - 08/14/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

also,

Quote:

While the Establishment Clause does prohibit Congress from preferring or elevating one religion over another, still it does not prohibit the government's entry into the religious domain to make accommodations for religious observances and practices in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.




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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle]
    #23539659 - 08/14/16 02:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:Nobody is trying to take your guns away either



Unless you're calling Her "nobody", this is just wrong.




Please show me where she said that she is intending, or wants to round up everybody's guns and seize them.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle] * 1
    #23539660 - 08/14/16 02:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That argument left the building with the passage of the 14th amendment and selective incorporation.  Since at least Everson v. Board of Education (1947), the Establishment Clause has applied to all government actions at all levels of government.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Apostle]
    #23539663 - 08/14/16 02:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
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You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineApostle
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Re: Imam(muslim) killed in broad daylight [Re: Enlil]
    #23539671 - 08/14/16 02:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Is Congress responsible for prayer in schools?

from my understanding If the state or local Government wants prayer in schools it is perfectly legal.

@enlil  one second i'll read the link in a minute. it's still not its original intention according to Jefferson though

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:Nobody is trying to take your guns away either



Unless you're calling Her "nobody", this is just wrong.




Please show me where she said that she is intending, or wants to round up everybody's guns and seize them.



If she even wants to get rig of one kind of gun then she's "trying to take guns away".



As for rounding up and seizing everyones guns, i guess i could do a search for you but i don't see how it's relevant since neither of us made that claim.


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