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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun
    #23535416 - 08/12/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?

Would ignorance be bliss?


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535479 - 08/12/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

lsd is the province of the gods
and I'm immigrating


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23535542 - 08/12/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I find knowledge in a sea of ignorance is bliss. At first it was terrifying for me and caused my anxiety to peak but now I'm just really thankful that I'm as aware as I consider myself to be of the things going on around me and the world.
I don't mean finding knowledge as in spending hours upon hours searching alternative news sources for what you can find about the "Illuminati", but rather just education on life in general, which is something that most of the population has seem to have lost.

It's unfortunate of the things going on, but I believe they're happening for a reason and I'm doing my best to contribute what I can to LIFE. I'd rather that man had not gotten this knowledge by contributing so much time and effort to war in the first place, but it is what it is and it's out there. Making myself paranoid over nuclear weapons when I could get hit by a car today just seems a little silly.

We're all dying in one way or another, I think what matters is what you do in that time, not trying to live forever and focus on so much negativity. Being a light in a world of darkness is all that can really be asked in these times and requires enough courage in itself and requires building yourself up mentally, not bringing yourself down with fear.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23535809 - 08/12/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?





I think most of us can relate to Lame Deer’s feeling even if we don’t believe in many Gods,
or believe in the idea that ‘things’ can be meant,
or the idea that what is meant by these powerful forces or the universe can be violated;
(problematical theology).

As regards the probability of nuclear mishaps, there have already been lots, some immense and still ongoing. Not only Fukushima and Chernobyl.

The size of the full list may shock some:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/14/nuclear-power-plant-accidents-list-rank

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=list+of+nuclear+mishaps&t=h_&ia=web

There are also the problems of nuclear waste disposal, and aging arsenals, North Korea, Iran, continued hostility between Pakistan and India both nuclear powers, all add up to a scary mix. 
Because of this there is nuclear clock:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nuclear+clock+countdown&t=h_&ia=web

But wait there’s more …

There are also issues of security (as when Russia broke up), & black markets & terrorism.

But wait there’s still more, some satellites are powered with dangerous radioactive fuels,
and with China which is becoming more militarily aggressive in the seas, also moving into space technology, and the US having a secret military space vehicle, the weaponization of space with especially dangerous items is unfortunately a possibility. The US did after all use spent uranium in bullets in Iraq. Once such stuff is more often in rockets and orbiting, the potential for more mishaps will escalate further.

Unfortunately one is reminded of thinking about closing the barn door after the horse...

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23535851 - 08/12/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would also add that with staged radiation-implosion, there is no theoretical limit to the yield of a weapon.  If you can believe it.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535987 - 08/12/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes it's amazing, but of course it's not weapon size that is mainly the source of of all the dangers.

https://www.quora.com/Do-thermonuclear-weapons-have-a-yield-limit

"There are very few targets big enough to not be effectively destroyed by a one megaton weapon. For example here's the effect on London*:
As the explosive yield gets bigger, a higher and higher percentage of its energy dissipates in the air above ground zero, blasting a portion of the atmosphere out into space, so a hundred megaton bomb doesn't cause ten times as much damage as a one megaton bomb, because it blasts the same portion of atmosphere into space, just at a higher velocity"

also found this

"George Gonzalez, Four semesters of Physics! Passed all of them!
1.7k Views
Your basic H-bomb can be scaled up to any size, but it's not an efficient thing to do if you want to maximize damage.  The blast radius only goes up as the cube root of the megatons, which implies that to double the blast area, you have to go from like 1 to 4 megatons.     If you instead made two bombs, you only need two 1 megaton bombs.   Half the material."
- - - -
also interestingly cigarette smoking is a contributor to radiation exposure

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/graphic-science-radiation-exposure/

How many millisieverts are you getting?

Smoking one pack of cigarettes per day for a year: 0.36
Fukushima emergency workers per hour: 1.0

--------------------------------
Cancer risk in relation to radioactivity in tobacco.


http://www.acsa.net/HealthAlert/RadioBacco.html

Leaf tobacco contains minute amounts of lead 210 (210Pb) and polonium
210 (210Po) both of which are radioactive carcinogens and both of
which can be found in smoke from burning tobacco. Tobacco smoke also
contains carcinogens that are nonradioactive.

People who inhale tobacco smoke are exposed to higher concentrations of
radioactivity than nonsmokers. Deposits of 210Pb and alpha
particle-emitting 210Po form in the lungs of smokers, generating
localized radiation doses for greater than the radiation exposures humans
experience from natural sources. This radiation exposure, delivered 'to'
sensitive tissues for long periods of time, may induce cancer both alone
and synergistically with nonradioactive carcinogens.

This article explores the relationship between the radioactive and
nonradioactive carcinogens in leaf tobacco and tobacco smoke and the risk
of cancer in those who inhale tobacco smoke.

Almost all externally-induced cancer in humans is reported to be caused by
cigarette smoking, alcohol and some foods.[1] In the 1960s it was reported
that leaf tobacco and tobacco smoke contained radioactivity,[2-6] and it
was noted that people who inhale tobacco smoke retain smoke-borne
radioisotopes in their lungs.[2,4,6]

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535991 - 08/12/16 08:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lame shaman? Layman?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23536044 - 08/12/16 08:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's very interesting, laughingdog.  Yes, it's my understanding that most of the strategic weapons in the U.S. stockpile are not more than 10 megatons equivalent TNT.  Of course, there are very many that are much smaller than this.

And naturally, Obama signed off on a major upgrade and expansion of the arsenal, to occur over the next few years to the tune of over a trillion dollars.  I suppose this was largely a response to the Russians doing the same, although I cannot say.

Kinda the wrong direction, if you ask me.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23536263 - 08/12/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
...
And naturally, Obama signed off on a major upgrade and expansion of the arsenal, to occur over the next few years to the tune of over a trillion dollars.  I suppose this was largely a response to the Russians doing the same, although I cannot say.

Kinda the wrong direction, if you ask me.




yes the wrong direction also in terms of the ripple effects on society.
Think of all the jobs, and the mindsets people will develop working as part of such an enterprise. What do the thousands of workers tell their kids they do for a living? And what beliefs must they form to justify their behavior to themselves? Aside from the issues of handling so much radioactive material. I really can't imagine in detail the ripple effects on society as them seem truly nightmarish.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23536303 - 08/12/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Very interesting point.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23538601 - 08/13/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Sad to say Fukushima is the disaster, along with many others.  Now, if you are speaking of thermonuclear war, then that's a different thing.  Still the major meltdown of what six nuclear plants ongoing for as long as we can imagine, is being completely or for the most part not reported.

It's not good, as they say. 



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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23538870 - 08/13/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Nuclear disaster?  SIX reactors including a MOX one exploded on 3/11/11 and melted into the Pacific Ocean, which is dying every day.



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Invisibleiiilil
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #23539431 - 08/14/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 





You can rewind this all the way back to the moment that man was made aware. Every new 'discovery' is only a echoing of this event. Awareness is problematic due to the limits of understanding one can maintain. As such, one will always be unaware of the full scope of consequences of what they make manifest. Furthermore, even with the best intent, man will never fully understand their 'hearts'. So, fault upon fault compound with time with further along manifestations from man.

Thus, one gains comfort coming to know and understand : It's going to be what its going to be. From this framing, one can also perceive why a 'certain awareness' would be the province of one who is 'all knowing' and not the province of man who will never be as such.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
How comfortable are you with man's knowledge? 




The wheels were set in motion long ago. It's going to play out how its going to play out.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?





Although man can destroy itself many times over with what it currently has, there are many (yet to be discovered) capabilities of man that would make thermo-nuclear weaponry seem like child's play. The concern should not be about the knowledge or capability. The concern should be about the manifestation of destruction. You can't prevent the expansion of knowledge/understanding. So, it's more a question of what man decides to do with it as it expands.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Would ignorance be bliss?




That ship sailed some time ago...


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952







A very good read :


The simple solution of course would be to not go to war and fight each other.
Alas, man's heart made manifest....
As for what man fashions for tools of war... Well, so long as it is in man's heart to fight, it's going to be whatever are the best tools that existing knowledge can fashion.

Robert Oppenheimer really went to town on himself during and after-the-fact... However, if it weren't him and other scientist who made the tools, someone else in some other time would have and it would have been used just the same... Furthermore, it is said that nukes actually aloud man to live on and thrive. After a few were dropped, people really had to grow up !
Now proliferated, it's quite clear that no one wars with a country who has them.

So now... if someone is dumb enough to mess with someone who has them over what? Greed and power.. And along the clear progression that that point, people have their collective heads up their asses concerned with way less important things...

Then, I guess its going to be what its going to be right? Just like all the other tragic wars of a time's past .. That no one 'apparently' saw coming or could stop ...


Same as its always been.

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: iiilil]
    #23539846 - 08/14/16 04:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

the root problem is a heroic warrior ego mindset which deeply sees its main enemy is very nature itself which 'he' regards as feminine and chaotic, and so presumes that his idea of 'order' must be imposed over not only the natural world, but also other species, and human nature!

If it is understood that the myths these people go by are Luciferian; that they really believe 'Lucifer' is a god, but more so meaning worshiping themselve as gods, and their acquiring occult knowledge and technological power over all others, and the natural world, and that they see nuclear power as good because they believe 'matter' is dark and needs their 'light':

Quote:

Seeking the Light

Alice Bailey's enthusiasm for the Light went as far as to welcome the detonations of the atomic bombs in August 1945 as a great spiritual event. The Tibetan DK [an 'ascended master' she claimed to 'channel'] and Alice Bailey wrote in "The Externalisation of the Hierarchy" (see note 33) on 9 August 1945, the very day that Nagasaki was bombed, that a new era would now be ushered in by the scientists of the world and that one hidden purpose of the World War had been to facilitate this release of "cosmic energy". "The Lords of Liberation had directed an inflow of extra-planetary energy" and thanks to successful invocations from Bailey's followers they had been able to help the scientists to finish the bomb. Bailey and DK go on to say that the Japanese, whose nervous system is of the 4th root-race, were due to be destroyed "... .and the consequent release of their imprisoned souls is a necessary happening; it is the justification of the use of the atomic bomb upon the Japanese population." (see note 33a). Alice Bailey enthused that the atomic bomb meant that an aspect of matter was released thus "freeing some of the soul force within the atom" and she claims that this was a great initiation for matter and brought the work of the World Saviour into the world of substance. It also makes space-flight more possible as space-probes today are nuclear power fuelled!

Sir George Trevelyan believed that Christ took over the etheric body of Earth and defeated death itself and is present in every nuclear centre. He hoped therefore that if the button was to be pressed it would signal a vast light filling the Heavens announcing the presence of Christ and would not be a nuclear holocaust. Atomic energy will bring about a New World Order, prophesied DK, and this has come only too true as nuclear power has led to an ever more authoritarian police and military state. The New World Order is controlled by the USA, the world's policeman.

Bailey and her followers promote a World Government as "those who are to walk into the Light" need it, and it will facilitate the emergence of the Masters and the Hierarchy on Earth. The Lucis Trust is on the roster of the Economic and Social Council of the UN. which is seen by Bailey's followers as a World Government in the making. When the UN was formed in 1945 it was entirely controlled by the nuclear nations and Bailey wrote that nothing must defy the Forces of Light working through the UN, an implied threat to socialist and Third World countries. Monica Sjoo




SO, if one is understanding of the insane myths the Nazis believed which fueled their energy drive and purpose, so it continues with these insane beliefs! It is THAT we need to understand and expose. They use all forms of propaganda to try and manipulate us to accept their insanity as being 'normal':


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: zzripz]
    #23542215 - 08/14/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

does zzrips think that the world can be sustainable with constrained energy resources? this population size?

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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23546901 - 08/16/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

clarification: the sun is not a thermonuclear device.  it is a plasma discharge.  two very different phenomena.  nuclear power, splitting atoms, is an abomination of mans design.  there are no thermonuclear reactions in nature.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547001 - 08/16/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So you object to an old Indian chief calling nuclear weaponry "the fire of the sun"?

Moreover, there is fusion taking place inside of stars.  Right?


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547011 - 08/16/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

fusion doesnt exist.

since nuclear weapony is a modern development, the chief cannot be 'old'.  he told it like he saw it, it is a popular myth.  his tack is correct.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547018 - 08/16/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
fusion doesnt exist.




I'm gonna hafta come out and just say: What the fuck are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power


Quote:

since nuclear weapony is a modern development, the chief cannot be 'old'.  he told it like he saw it, it is a popular myth.  his tack is correct.




Quit being a putz.  Nuclear weaponry was first used in 1945.  Lame Deer's book came out in 1972.  He was old at the time.  What is your point?


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547035 - 08/16/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

if you mean he has seen many moons, that might be correct.  if you say old as in long ago, you are showing your age bias.


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