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OfflineKenetic
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Structured info on mushroom cultivation?
    #23538588 - 08/13/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

As the title suggests, I am looking for a source of structured info regarding mushroom cultivation, specifically genetics and sterile culture work.  This site has tons of useful info but I have to search to find it and there are may be things I'm missing. 

My main concern is agar and proper sterile technique, what to look for specifically on a dish and how to isolate and test my cultures.  I've always cloned with rye grain and had mixed results, and now I've decided to do it the right way despite my previous inhibitions.  I already have all the stuff I need except a source of info.

Here's a good example:  I have a few (unclean) spore prints from my last grow and I'm unclear on how to isolate them from contams and still save a decent amount of genetic diversity to cherry-pick a clone.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23538593 - 08/13/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/13/16 05:57 PM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23538600 - 08/13/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Also The mushroom cultivator and Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms are great books for quick resources on standard procedures.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23538621 - 08/13/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wow that's excellent!  Thanks!


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23538624 - 08/13/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
This site has tons of useful info but I have to search to find it and there are may be things I'm missing.




Hi bro, you have pretty much answered your question for yourself I'm afraid.
Unfortunately, there is no one link with all the teks with the most up to date information in them at the front page of the shroomery, as awesome as that would be, it does not exist, and researching is a challenge that you must become good at and used to doing if you are going to get anywhere.

The only way you are going to get the most supreme information is to do a shit load of research AND more importantly, to learn the science behind everything, this way you will know what the best information out there is.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23538645 - 08/13/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm looking for a book reference or something more structured than a forum.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23538652 - 08/13/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Also The mushroom cultivator and Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms are great books for quick resources on standard procedures.




Like this.  However, who wrote these?


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23538661 - 08/13/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Paul Staments

But beware of outdated or incorrect information.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23538754 - 08/13/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Some outdated stuff as far as temperature ranges for incubating and what not, but unless it's stuff about coir, monotubs, and DIY builds it's all in those books.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23538766 - 08/13/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet.  Just found some pdf files of those books and it's great.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23538793 - 08/13/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: Awesome, that's where I first read them!


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23539364 - 08/13/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There's no monotubs in TMC... It's from the 1980s. It's like as old as it gets on info. Only time you should honestly be reading it is if you already have a solid understanding of cubensis. Then you can ignore the shit that's obviously not true, and look at the good info. Like the contaminations area.

If you want places with everything in one spot here's a few AMAZING links

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19140341#19140341

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14217681

Enjoy.


--------------------
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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23539524 - 08/14/16 01:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That's what I said, unless it's monotubs, coir and new DIY builds, TMC and GGMM has it all. What's untrue in GGMM and TMC? I have seen RR talk about the agar incubation temps, but I can't think of anything else, and to tell the truth Im not even sure if the agar thing is true or not.
GGMM is a cornerstone if you go into gourmet cultivation.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23539544 - 08/14/16 01:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Only time you should honestly be reading it is if you already have a solid understanding of cubensis. Then you can ignore the shit that's obviously not true, and look at the good info.




This could honestly be said for anything.

It's great to have a solid understanding of something, then going back and reading everything and realizing what information is legit and what information is garbage.

But where does this solid understanding come from?
It honestly comes from actually wanting to know badly enough.
A lot of reading up to date teks and searching.
Reading a lot of posts from master cultivators and learning why you need to do what, the actual science behind everything.

After a while of doing that, you should have a knack for it, I think it's ridiculous how scattered everything is, and I'm working on doing my part to keep solid information in circulation, I am honestly working on writing out a great wall of text for an updated PF TEK right now, among a few other things.
And the PF TEK will not be released until all the pictures to go with it are sorted.

EM666's PF TEK just does not cut it anymore, people with concrete understanding should be making more pictorial teks if they want to notice a real difference to be honest.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23539648 - 08/14/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

@Rooster sorry I misread lol! My bad.

@Hashed True. Tho the search function here is straight up amazing. I've never had to ask a question here. It takes like tops 2 minutes to find my answers. Actually if you look at my previous posts in cult, it's a lot of links that I had to utsf to even find in the first place.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Step 1: Use The Search Function (UTSF)
   

Lots of people complain the search function sucks, and gives outdated info. Try clicking the 2 pics above this!




From my how to shroomery like a pro link in my sig :lol:

I agree there's some parts of EM666s pf tek I don't like. Same with SBJs mono tek, there's lots of room for improvement. Always changing and improving, this place is. :yoda:


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23539675 - 08/14/16 02:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I agree there's some parts of EM666s pf tek I don't like. Same with SBJs mono tek, there's lots of room for improvement. Always changing and improving, this place is. :yoda:




Indeed.

But you got to admit, this website is not exactly an easy puzzle to crack.
I believe that a lot more organization needs to go into this website, otherwise noobs galore will continue to flood the threads.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23539687 - 08/14/16 02:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)



Also there's CMS going on right now. Lots of effort to get rid of outdated info, and throw it into the archives. Lots of bs I'm too tired to get into, but this sites a work in progress with lots of debate on how to deal with the clutter.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23539720 - 08/14/16 02:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not going to lie, the shroomery is quite chaotic, unless shit gets completely organized, it will honestly remain as such.
If I was an administrator, god damn, this place would be getting an extreme makeover...

But the shroomery hands down contains the best information there is, if you dig deep enough and have enough passion to research and learn the science behind everything, that is.
It's simple as that, but it's really not simple, it comes from countless hours of research.

I'm doing my part, well, working on it... :rolleyes:
And I can definitely see myself releasing a fuck tonne of updated teks in the future, no doubt about that.

I'm not all complaining, it's a beautiful WIP and the most awesome resource there is, I would not be shit without the shroomery and it's knowledgeable users, it's all on the users to release up to date teks to really make a difference and make it better.

I for one, am in the process of working on a gigantic wall of text for the the pf tek right now, and once all the pictures are up, that is going to be "PF TEK 2017" done and dusted, there are literally NO start to finish pf teks that have the most updated supreme knowledge in them, I feel I got this one, so remember this conversation after I release it, Mad Season. :lol:


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23539803 - 08/14/16 03:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hashed said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
I agree there's some parts of EM666s pf tek I don't like. Same with SBJs mono tek, there's lots of room for improvement. Always changing and improving, this place is. :yoda:




Indeed.

But you got to admit, this website is not exactly an easy puzzle to crack.
I believe that a lot more organization needs to go into this website, otherwise noobs galore will continue to flood the threads.




The very first place I landed years ago starting my cultivation journey was this forum board.....hard to crack? The people who get good at this hobby are the people who produce fruit


--------------------
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AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE

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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23539902 - 08/14/16 06:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I meant that learning the science behind everything and getting to know the best information is a hard one to crack, take your LC manual for example, how much information did you have to go through to make that tek?

Not anyone can just write a LC manual, takes learning the science behind everything and supreme knowledge and wisdom handed down to you from great teachers to write a tek like that, not to mention you can always put your twist on things, this is where learning the science behind everything comes into play. :wink:


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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23539976 - 08/14/16 07:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

While there is a lot of old/bad info on these boards, it's actually not that hard a puzzle IMO. I learned nearly everything I needed to grow at a reasonably high level just by reading here, that was before I had an account yet, before a lot of the great writeups like Franks or SBJs were even written. It's not perfect but we are getting better all the time.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23540032 - 08/14/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Granted some are wittier researchers than others, researching the science behind everything and weeding out bad information comes naturally so some people, like yourself, I suppose. :shrug:

I know that it sure as hell did not exactly come naturally to me, my journey was a giant challenge to say the least, it was an acquired skill for me. :crazy:

So it depends from what skill and knowledge level point of view you look at it, I suppose, put yourself in a noobs shoes, a dumb noobs shoes...
Not a sharp noobs shoes...

Yes, we are getting better all the time, thanks to all the users who have a full set of up to date knowledge, like yourself.

I'm probably not really one to talk, because personally I was just force-fed myself early on, but once I got the hang of it, I began to pick everything up myself, learn everything else myself, I realized, wait a minute, UTFSE!!!

Simply the drive to learn the science behind everything so I am able to decipher the best methods, along with the posts and teks of the sites greatest cultivators, such as yourself, gives me a solid set of knowledge that I get to prove myself with.

That's is why I owe the shroomery big time and am in the process of paying it forward, writing out a few great walls of texts in my own time, to be made into pictorials ASAP.

I have great things planned for the future, and along with producing my own variety and documenting on the process in the near future, it has prompted me to want to release some awesome up to date content that will no doubt get the thumbs up from the masters, because essentially, it's just the greatest knowledge there is, regurgitated.

It's just that no one has made an up to date update for certain teks yet, so I'll analyse the structure of the website and see what I can do about it, if it needs a tek I'll make one, why not.


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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23540058 - 08/14/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not even sure what is actually missing? There are decent writeups for most methods. Maybe LC could use a refresher but by the time a person is ready to start messing with it they shouldn't even need a tek.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23540254 - 08/14/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for all the posts.

I've been able to find everything I need except more specific info on agar work, which I have so far avoided.  I even bought RR's videos and the parts on agar, cloning and isolation barely cover the surface.  I really like the link to Stro's tek.  This is pretty much the stuff I'm looking for.  It' very in-depth and breaks down what a sector is, for example. 

The search engine is allright but I have to spell everything perfectly or I get zero results; I usually just use google as it's more intuitive and allows more room for error.  I've searched for agar teks a lot and I've never come across Stro's tek, which I have found extremely useful and informative.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #23540329 - 08/14/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Start looking in people's sig for compilation teks. Also the search engine works great, I suspect you don't know how to use it properly. For instance I typed "how agar" which is a total of 7 letters, one space, and grammatically incorrect. I have placed the 4th result for you below.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21176491

That writeup contains a link to many writeups on agar and methods. Was the 4th result.

The search function is not perfect but it still works well. Start reading links in veterans sigs, and if in doubt ask, people are able to shoot ya links pretty easy.

Here is another fantastic writeup on cleaning bacteria. You cam do it without antibiotics as well so don't even worry about getting those.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2894662


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23540334 - 08/14/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet, thank you.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23540342 - 08/14/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

One more thing....

How can I bookmark posts or threads?  I can't figure it out for some reason.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #23540377 - 08/14/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If videos are more your thing, Munch has an excellent series of agar work videos. I have them linked in my sig as "agar work videos".....click the pointer finger under the post....that thread will appear under your profile list


--------------------
My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M
AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE

Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm!

Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23540427 - 08/14/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

speaking of good links in signatures

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\/


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23540488 - 08/14/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
That's what I said, unless it's monotubs, coir and new DIY builds, TMC and GGMM has it all. What's untrue in GGMM and TMC? I have seen RR talk about the agar incubation temps,



Even RR admitted Stamets never recommended any incubation temperature for cubensis jars. Many fucked up and misread/misinterpreted what Stamets said, in the book he clearly warns that growing substrates will be warmer than surrounding temps, and the 84-86F figure he gives was for substrate temp. Many would say this is also too high, but incubating at 86F would result in higher substrate temps.

The only active species I see in TMC that he recommends was for growing tamp & mex sclerotia.

Quote:

To encourage sclerotia production only, incubate mycelia on rye grass seed at 75°F. in
complete darkness.




and for mex sclerotia which was referenced to Wasson & Heim.

Quote:

Heim and Wasson (1 958) considered sclerotia production in
this species to be the most efficient method for the generation of biomass. Optimum temperature for
sclerotia production was reported to be at 70-75 °F. in darkness.



Most now say to grow in light, darkness might suit people better though, as its such a stealthy thing to grow. There are videos showing dutch commercial producers growing in the dark. This is not to say its the most efficient, but many go on like TMC has things that will 100% lead to complete fuck ups. If people insist dark for sclerotia is wrong it might put people off growing at all.

People make out like there is loads of incorrect stuff but give no examples, I guess they are just repeating what they heard, like the 86F thing.


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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: blackout]
    #23540503 - 08/14/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I had a feeling that mention of TMC would bring you out :lol:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: dankington]
    #23540512 - 08/14/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:

the devils advocate of shotty info

P.s.

tyndallization is garbage even if people get it 100% right


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23541034 - 08/14/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The thing about TMC, is it was written to expose the techniques that commercial industry held close for so long. Cubensis production is written between the lines of that book, it may not say directly "this is what you do for cubensis" but there is a picture of a cube on most pages relevant to cube production.
It was actually a genius way to write that book and keep it relevant in academics, which it still is today, it is still used as a text book for university level mycology, hell you can rent it out as a text book on amazon.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23541583 - 08/14/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I'm not even sure what is actually missing? There are decent writeups for most methods. Maybe LC could use a refresher but by the time a person is ready to start messing with it they shouldn't even need a tek.




There are heaps of great write ups, and yes, everything can be found by digging around, but more often than not, never in the same place.

To be honest the tek that needs a giant refresher is the pf tek, so I'm working on that, the best pf tek out there right now is EM666's, and it's shit.

Other than that, RR and Roadkill's pf tek would be better, but there is some slight outdated info in it and it does skip on a few things, like misting, for example.

Too many noobs pick up mis-information about misting, not to mention all the other mis-information they pick up as a result of reading crap.
So they have to be shown "The Misted Cake Project".
And fanning... such a pointless practice. :facepalm:

I'm working on a giant updated pf tek encyclopedia, everything you need to know about pf tek in one place, going over all the multiple up to date techniques to go about getting it done, from spore to mushroom, steam sterilizing to pressure cooking, spore syringe to LC, and all that good shit, all in one place, noobs paradise.

Giant up to date pf tek pictorial encyclopedia type shit and it will be released ASAP and it will be the best pf tek so far hands down. :hehehe:

Mycologist217 got a solid LC tek I reckon.


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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Hashed]
    #23541597 - 08/14/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The misted cake project is linked in SBJ's the basics along with pretty much every other tek out there worth compiling. SBJ's basics is pretty damn solid.

Not sure what's outdated in RR's let's grow mushrooms section on cakes. I haven't watched it in years tho. He has some older info on his bulk sections but that's it.


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InvisibleHashed
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Re: Structured info on mushroom cultivation? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23541653 - 08/14/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I know, SBJ's basics are indeed, pretty damn solid.

To be honest, I remember skim watching it and noticing some shit is outdated, and I know for a fact he does not go over some things.

I would have to re-watch it to be certain and I cbf watching it again at this instant, I'll watch it in a few hours and report back.

But like SBJs basics, Let's grow mushrooms is pretty damn solid.

I reckon this is pretty on topic for a thread about structured info on MC, discussing the available information. :shrug:


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