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Fiscal
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How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water?
#23537690 - 08/13/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello everybody! You see all these people that just pasteurize coir putting it in a bucket and adding boiling water, then when it cools down it's pasteurized. So how reliable is this method Vs. pressure cooking in jars (sterilize) or pasteurize it in jars with a meat thermometer keeping the right temperature for an hour? Does coco really have the beneficial bacteria that would get killed in the sterilization? Thank you and regards.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Fiscal] 1
#23537695 - 08/13/16 11:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very unreliable because it's not pasteurization. But you're in luck since you SHOULD sterilise coir. And the bucket TEK is just fine for sterilizing coir
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oontribe


Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23537893 - 08/13/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9289857/an/0/page/0]
Never had a problem with this tek...and you can replace the coffee with vermiculite. You can also add a tbs of gypsum.
Edited by oontribe (08/13/16 12:48 PM)
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Inocuole
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: oontribe]
#23537911 - 08/13/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If coir had beneficial bacteria the bucket tek would have been crucified on the spot. I really suggest staying the fuck away from coffee though..
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: oontribe]
#23537915 - 08/13/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think the bucket get's you to sterilization, in fact last time I had done one I actually threw in the temp probe to see and it sat in the mid one fifties for the whole hour, I can see partial sterilization if it goes over that too long, but not sterilized.
Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/13/16 12:56 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn] 1
#23537919 - 08/13/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I use an insulated bucket the temperature is above 170F still after an hour. It's above 150 easily over two.
Also I pre heat the bucket with boiling water.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23537943 - 08/13/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wouldn't count that as sterilization, though it doesnt really matter with the coir. I did a run a while back ago with grow bags like Lipa's fuel pellet tek, I just loaded each bag with the ingredients for a tub and dumped the boiling water into the bags, sealed them up and let them sit in totes for an hour, that time core temps went up into the 170's for an hour, that's the hottest I have gotten coir with boiling water, though I have never used an insulated bucket, I use a big tote and usually do a run of about 30 lb.'s of sub in it.
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Inocuole
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23537948 - 08/13/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If it's more than pasteurization temps, and it's coir, you may as well call it sterilization. I throw boiling water in mine, throw it in the oven, and turn it to 200 for 2 hours.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Inocuole]
#23537954 - 08/13/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: If it's more than pasteurization temps, and it's coir, you may as well call it sterilization. I throw boiling water in mine, throw it in the oven, and turn it to 200 for 2 hours.
I have been meaning to try this, what are using, turkey trays? And do you cover it with anything?
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Inocuole
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23537957 - 08/13/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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An oven bag for turkeys/hams. It's closed so I don't lose moisture in the oven, since that would be a huge problem otherwise.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Inocuole]
#23537969 - 08/13/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: An oven bag for turkeys/hams. It's closed so I don't lose moisture in the oven, since that would be a huge problem otherwise.
This seems to be where it's at as far as labor and efficiency goes. I need to give that a go.
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tombosley8
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23537984 - 08/13/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--------------------
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23537989 - 08/13/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rooster Cogburn said: I wouldn't count that as sterilization, though it doesnt really matter with the coir. I did a run a while back ago with grow bags like Lipa's fuel pellet tek, I just loaded each bag with the ingredients for a tub and dumped the boiling water into the bags, sealed them up and let them sit in totes for an hour, that time core temps went up into the 170's for an hour, that's the hottest I have gotten coir with boiling water, though I have never used an insulated bucket, I use a big tote and usually do a run of about 30 lb.'s of sub in it.
Sterilization is 170F for 10 minutes whether you personally like to call it that or not
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23538043 - 08/13/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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As innocule said, it's coir, you might as well call it sterilization, I agree, but if we are arguing over semantics Take Lipa's fuel pellet tek, same concept as the bucket tek except for un supplemented sawdust, this also gives random temps usually over 170, I have had great success with that tek until I started sneaking in wheat bran or other supplements, 170's is just not sterilization, now I supplement sawdust at 20-40 % but it HAS to be sterilized at 15psi for 2 or more hours or they will inevitably fail. Coco does fine with whatever the fuck you do to it really, but try throwing in some supplements and then partially sterilize it.
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Inocuole
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23538047 - 08/13/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fuck supplements. No offense, you know, just fuck em.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Inocuole]
#23538063 - 08/13/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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There's different kinds of sterilized. 170F 10m is past disinfection past sanitization past pasteurization. But its insufficient for grains and supplemented sawdust sure.
Every beverage industry from beer and wine to milk and water. They all sterilize hoses, transfer lines, fillers with 170F water. Hotter damages seals or stresses joints from expansion and contraction. Some industry uses a chemical sanitizer after sterilization because the federal government is as retarded as can be. HACCP might be good on paper but the people enforcing it don't know dick shit
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23538128 - 08/13/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Fuck supplements. No offense, you know, just fuck em.
Yeah it's retarded to use supplements in coir, I was just making an example about sterilization, now for gourmets, supplements boost BE like day and night.
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: There's different kinds of sterilized. 170F 10m is past disinfection past sanitization past pasteurization. But its insufficient for grains and supplemented sawdust sure.
Every beverage industry from beer and wine to milk and water. They all sterilize hoses, transfer lines, fillers with 170F water. Hotter damages seals or stresses joints from expansion and contraction. Some industry uses a chemical sanitizer after sterilization because the federal government is as retarded as can be. HACCP might be good on paper but the people enforcing it don't know dick shit
Yeah, your talking about sanitizing, completely different than sterile. I used to brew beer too, and you sanitize everything with both hot water and chemicals, sanitizing does not remove all micro organisms like sterilizing, hence why we flame scalpels and not wipe them off with sanitary napkins.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23538135 - 08/13/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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No its not sanitation its sterilization. I work at a 60k BBL brewery and do brewery QA
Sanitizing is when you dip your fittings in 170F water less than 10 minutes. Or spray them with Peroxyacetic or iodophor
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23538145 - 08/13/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where's the carb on this thing how do you smoke it
To be more truthful 170f for 10m is technically on surgically clean non porous surfaces. So if you take your fittings or pipe and they have crud caked on you could push 212F water and not sterilize
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23538170 - 08/13/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: No its not sanitation its sterilization. I work at a 60k BBL brewery and do brewery QA
Sanitizing is when you dip your fittings in 170F water less than 10 minutes. Or spray them with Peroxyacetic or iodophor
No it's not sterilization, its sanitizing. I just got done building an atmospheric steamer like gr0wers, and if I was able to sterilize my sub in that thing for an hour at 170, that would be awesome, but it takes at least 12 hours(24 total) at WAY higher temps than 170, if substrate could be sterilized that quickly it would be a game changer for both hobby and commercial cultivation, but it doesn't work that way. You are confused by the coir, coir works always pretty much whatever you do to it. By the way who told you that 170 for over an hour is sterilization, it is common knowledge that is called partial sterilization, you would never get away with that with poo or supplements, in fact it is considered worse than under pasteurized when dealing with nutritious sub?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23538865 - 08/13/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Substrate is a lot different than stainless steel that's already cleaned. I'm not confused. It is sterilization at 170F for 10m. Substrate is a different animal. For the same reasons we can't sterilise whole grain on even 100C steam in less than 8 hours.
Coir just should be above 170F for at least 10m. You want to sterilize it. You're killing all vegetative bacteria and molds(spores and vegitative(that you may have introduced). Spores may survive. Sterilization is a wide range of things depending on process needs.
You can sterilise coir at 170F for 10m (core temperature has to hit that) because there's extremely little endogenous contamination.
Sterilization time has everything to do with CFU load prior to sterilization hence 170F for 10M would never achieve sterilization for horse or cow poo, and especially not for grain
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Kenetic
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Fiscal]
#23538885 - 08/13/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fiscal said: Hello everybody! You see all these people that just pasteurize coir putting it in a bucket and adding boiling water, then when it cools down it's pasteurized. So how reliable is this method Vs. pressure cooking in jars (sterilize) or pasteurize it in jars with a meat thermometer keeping the right temperature for an hour? Does coco really have the beneficial bacteria that would get killed in the sterilization? Thank you and regards.
I personally think the bucket tek worked great when I had a small pressure cooker and couldn't practically use the jar method, but I would prefer the jar method now because I can fit all my sub in one pot. It's one less variable to consider.
I learned on here that coco has beneficial bacteria and sterilization is bad, killing this bacteria and allowing the strongest colonizer to take over, but I've also learned that bacteria of any kind doesn't thrive in dry conditions and either dies or creates endospores. Does the beneficial bacteria live or produce endospores in dry coir? I don't know.
With all of that said, the logic behind proper pasteurization makes sense. If you have the means to do it, then why leave open another variable?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Kenetic]
#23539001 - 08/13/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Coir performs better sterilised that's why. And there's absolutely no point in pasteurization of it since there is no beneficial thermophiles
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Kenetic]
#23539132 - 08/13/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said:
Quote:
Fiscal said: Hello everybody! You see all these people that just pasteurize coir putting it in a bucket and adding boiling water, then when it cools down it's pasteurized. So how reliable is this method Vs. pressure cooking in jars (sterilize) or pasteurize it in jars with a meat thermometer keeping the right temperature for an hour? Does coco really have the beneficial bacteria that would get killed in the sterilization? Thank you and regards.
I personally think the bucket tek worked great when I had a small pressure cooker and couldn't practically use the jar method, but I would prefer the jar method now because I can fit all my sub in one pot. It's one less variable to consider.
I learned on here that coco has beneficial bacteria and sterilization is bad, killing this bacteria and allowing the strongest colonizer to take over, but I've also learned that bacteria of any kind doesn't thrive in dry conditions and either dies or creates endospores. Does the beneficial bacteria live or produce endospores in dry coir? I don't know.
With all of that said, the logic behind proper pasteurization makes sense. If you have the means to do it, then why leave open another variable?
This is where I am on this subject, variable, I originally moved to pasteurizing from the bucket when I was having a contam outbreak and couldnt place it anywhere else, I was a new grower though and now Im sure I had a pretty invisible bacteria, but I started pasteurizing and never looked back. I personally do it in large spawn/growbags, I do 3 at a time in my AA941, I just hydrate and mix the ingredients, load enough for a tub in each bag, seal them and pack them in the AA with spacers rings between them and fire it up. I like this because I buy bags in bulk for 49 cents a piece, and I get to reuse the bags over and over, also they store well, sealed I have used them months after pasteurizing.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23539293 - 08/13/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Sterilization time has everything to do with CFU load prior to sterilization hence 170F for 10M would never achieve sterilization for horse or cow poo, and especially not for grain
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Coir performs better sterilised that's why. And there's absolutely no point in pasteurization of it since there is no beneficial thermophiles
These simple yet crucial concepts never seem to catch on. But understanding them is the difference between having fun with this hobby and banging your head against a wall.
Everyone loves to blame the bucket. But it's all bout clean spawn.
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d0urd3n
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23539571 - 08/14/16 01:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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60k BBL per year bodh? That's a lot of beer.
Curious, do you use starsan for anything in this hobby?
That was some great info, anyways.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Everyone loves to blame the bucket. But it's all bout clean spawn.
Unless there are random organic materials in your coir though right?
Wasn't it you who had issues a year or two back bucket teking coir and getting trich?
I mean your point still stands, for the vast majority its spawn and they want to blame bucket tek.
Did you end up finding a different coir supplier to fix this? Or was this not you, I can't really remember.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23539576 - 08/14/16 01:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I will admit you can spend better time doing something else than properly pasteurizing coco, however to insinuate someone is doing something wrong I have seen amazing grows from the big guys on here that did pasteurize their coco, and amazing grows from you guys that don't. Just as much as it shouldnt be a debate on here if the bucket tek works or not, it should't be debated if pasteurization works or not. It works every time, just like the bucket, how is that "banging your head against the wall"? And don't tell me time, cubensis are the only mushroom you are going to get away with this little of work, time, and effort.
And as far as the sterile coir goes, Pasty, you honestly believe that coir can be fully sterilized in 10 min at 170, that's not partially sterilized?
Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/14/16 01:38 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23539618 - 08/14/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rooster Cogburn said:
And as far as the sterile coir goes, Pasty, you honestly believe that coir can be fully sterilized in 10 min at 170, that's not partially sterilized?
Yes. You can sterilize a glass of water purely by microwaving it for a few minutes or just plain old boiling.
As TC already said (even numerous times I think), it matters exclusively on what the item being sterilized has growing on it and it's nutrient content. Take poo for example, you can't pasteurize it with the bucket tek like you would with coir because it's loaded with bacteria just lying there dormant. Coir has very minimal, if any at all, bacteria and molds growing on it and it doesn't have much nutrients so they won't even like growing on it.
Same thing with grains, we normally PC them for 2hours at 15psi and even that is not truly sterilization since bacterial endospores do still survive.
Sterilization is relative to the item being sterilized. People are also correct about others blaming the bucket tek. The bucket tek is not even for pasteurization, it's just to make the nutrients more available to the mycelium. People have grown on hydrated coir (no heat treatments) successfully, so yes, anyone who blames the bucket tek for contams is just blaming the bucket tek for no good reason. Anyone who does that should look really carefully at his sterile tek, his spawn (grain prep included) and his coir for foreign objects.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: d0urd3n]
#23539948 - 08/14/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
d0urd3n said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Everyone loves to blame the bucket. But it's all bout clean spawn.
Unless there are random organic materials in your coir though right?
Wasn't it you who had issues a year or two back bucket teking coir and getting trich?
Yes and no. It was me that had issues. The problem was the coir had some weird seeds/grains bound up in the brick. So it wasn't the bucket. No matter how I would have prepped that, it would have contamed. A perfect pasteurization could not have saved it. I have stopped using that brand and never had a problem since that I felt like blaming on the coir.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: d0urd3n]
#23540179 - 08/14/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
d0urd3n said: 60k BBL per year bodh? That's a lot of beer.
Curious, do you use starsan for anything in this hobby?
That was some great info, anyways.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Everyone loves to blame the bucket. But it's all bout clean spawn.
Unless there are random organic materials in your coir though right?
Wasn't it you who had issues a year or two back bucket teking coir and getting trich?
I mean your point still stands, for the vast majority its spawn and they want to blame bucket tek.
Did you end up finding a different coir supplier to fix this? Or was this not you, I can't really remember.
Starsan sucks I wouldn't even use it for homebrew. I vastly prefer using alpet(70% alcohol) or peroxyacetic acid(can't buy at home brew store)
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Kenetic
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23540294 - 08/14/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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So I have definitely not heard that you can sterilize coir and get away with it. If this is true, then that's great because sterilizing coir is a lot easier imo. Is this a pretty popular idea or is it relatively new?
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Kenetic]
#23540297 - 08/14/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sort of new. The only reason you hear that you can't sterilise coir is noobs blaming failure on everything but themselves their spawn and their sterile technique.
I use eco earth coir 100% of the time too. You do find bullshit in the bricks. Hasn't caused me issues yet. Remove the plastic bits and nails
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23540981 - 08/14/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would like to hear this from pasty as well, this is not speculation? You can confirm a fully sterile coir substrate in 10 min with boiling water poured on it? I don't know guys, if this was the case than don't you feel the commercial Agiricus industry would of hopped on this right away and moved to coir subs and casings? This would revolutionize that industry. And by the way, I KNOW coir works with whatever you do to it, treated or not, I just think it's wishful thinking to say this or that is the best when it comes to coir, because it always works And I don't know why it makes you guys feel better to believe it's fully sterile if it doesn't even matter
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541009 - 08/14/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well given that the definition of sterile in this hobby means no microbial activity and since coir already has no microbial activity, all you really need to do is kill the few billion bacteria and mold spores etc on the outside of the brick. Maybe it's not 10^7 sterilization but I would doubt much would be alive.
That's not really the point tho. With coir we don't give a shit if it's sterilized or not. . .won't matter either way. What we want is for it to be well cooked so it's easier for the mycelium to colonize and break down.
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Inocuole
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541037 - 08/14/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Gotta hear it from pasty, inoc can't have a year old tek in his sig where he does it and explains that it doesn't matter.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541071 - 08/14/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Well given that the definition of sterile in this hobby means no microbial activity and since coir already has no microbial activity, all you really need to do is kill the few billion bacteria and mold spores etc on the outside of the brick. Maybe it's not 10^7 sterilization but I would doubt much would be alive.
That's not really the point tho. With coir we don't give a shit if it's sterilized or not. . .won't matter either way. What we want is for it to be well cooked so it's easier for the mycelium to colonize and break down.
Exactly, coir is fine to use however it's cooked, I just feel like some newbies might be confused about what an actual sterile substrate is when they start reading that the bucket tek "sterilizes". Which seems to be a new trend on here, when the coir first started getting hot around here it was constantly called partial sterilization, which it technically is, when did the coir start getting more sterile? The more it was typed the more sterile it got?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541183 - 08/14/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If I have a container of material with no microbial life inside it, how long does it need to be pressure cooked before it's sterilized? The answer is zero seconds.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541222 - 08/14/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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So for the record you are saying the bucket is properly sterilizing the coir? And the consensus is coir, an agricultural waste product, is completely deprived of any microbial life besides what may have fallen on the out side of the bricks? Again I dont argue coir works anyway it's cooked, this just seems like assumptions made into facts after years of people justifying and explaining why the bucket tek works.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541242 - 08/14/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm saying that when they press coir bricks under heat and huge pressure, drying them out like crazy, the relatively low amount of bacteria and spores that may have been present are gonna be dead or at least damaged. Then you bucket tek the shit and not much of anything will be left.
Now compared to manure, which is like 35% bacteria in its composition or more, it's practically inert. Manure needs proper pasteurization and has bacteria populations in place to allow that to work.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541350 - 08/14/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not just manure, basically every other substrate used in mushroom cultivation, needs to be properly pasteurized or sterilized or it will inevitably fail. And as far as these coir facilities in Sri Lanka and what not, I am not sure that these bricks are being heated up to the point you guys think. How? What is the heating process besides the pressure, it seems like third world facilities like that would be using as little energy as possible and the amount of energy heating that much waste product seems completely inefficient for a business in a third world country, especially one producing gardening supplies.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541445 - 08/14/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I am curious now. Gonna try an experiment I have been meaning to do for a while. Gonna get to the bottom of this one.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541535 - 08/14/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Well I am curious now. Gonna try an experiment I have been meaning to do for a while. Gonna get to the bottom of this one.
Awesome, I'm really just curious about it because I have done tons of things to prep coir that just wouldn't work with other substrates and have never ran into issue's I could blame on the sub, so I am open to whatever you find out is behind this whether the coir is super clean after being bricked thus easily sterilized or just really resistant towards contamination which the second is what I have always thought. What are you thinking about doing for an experiment?
Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/14/16 05:16 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541544 - 08/14/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Okay now you are not understanding why coir works. It's fine sterilized simply because molds can't germinate on it and it has no real food supply for bacteria. That is what makes it safe no matter what you do. The fact that populations are probably low is just a bonus.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541562 - 08/14/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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So what is it you are curious about then?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541588 - 08/14/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Exactly what kind of populations can be found in a brick of coir. Should be easy enough to see. Of course I can't do a specific ID but it would be interesting to see what popped up be it mold bacteria or yeast or even higher fungi.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541633 - 08/14/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wish I had a nice microscope, what I may be misunderstanding then is why with with this specific substrate when sterile is mold less likely to germinate on it as apposed to spawning to sterile sawdust which needs to be done in a sterile environment? That seems to be the mechanism that makes coir so unfuckupable, non treated or sterilized, in fact I am still betting against that coir is sterile after a bucket treatment, no way. Now from an organic gardening perspective coir is used because of it's unique properties of breeding beneficial bacteria and fungi, in fact I think you guys know Trichoderma is even added to coir.
Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/14/16 05:46 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541643 - 08/14/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have no idea why shit doesn't germinate readily on coir. All I know is that it doesn't.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23541665 - 08/14/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm with you there.
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Kenetic
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Inocuole]
#23541711 - 08/14/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Gotta hear it from pasty, inoc can't have a year old tek in his sig where he does it and explains that it doesn't matter. 
Yeah I just read that tek and it's great.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Hashed
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23541720 - 08/14/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but I'm going to leave it here.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19907089#19907089
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23542841 - 08/15/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Gotta hear it from pasty, inoc can't have a year old tek in his sig where he does it and explains that it doesn't matter. 
I know right? Pasty is fucking moses where newbies are concerned. It's like RR(which would be god in their eyes) called pasty from the sky and pasty went up the mountain and returned with stone tablets explaining everything mycological. HAIL MOSES
Fuk dat, joo ain't pasty nigga, youse a liar.

the only prayer related graemlin is muslim, so that will have to do.
Quote:
Rooster Cogburn said: Not just manure, basically every other substrate used in mushroom cultivation, needs to be properly pasteurized or sterilized or it will inevitably fail. And as far as these coir facilities in Sri Lanka and what not, I am not sure that these bricks are being heated up to the point you guys think. How? What is the heating process besides the pressure, it seems like third world facilities like that would be using as little energy as possible and the amount of energy heating that much waste product seems completely inefficient for a business in a third world country, especially one producing gardening supplies.
Don't you know that compaction and high temps go hand in hand? They probably don't even heat the coir, the act of compacting a brick of coir to that density will create it's own heat. It's the same reason why foot operated bicycle air pumps get warm after using them or why aerosol cans get cold after releasing their pressure.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23544860 - 08/15/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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To tell you the truth I have only seen pictures of the devices they use, I have never seen or read any papers or documents on how much heat is produced while they are pressed, and seeing they are usually pressed into 650g blocks or 5kg I cant see them hitting sterilization temps. But I don't really know, it's just my opinion, I am totally open to being wrong. Anyways I started a series of experiments to check this out, here is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23542736
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Hashed
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23544934 - 08/15/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thank you for your experimentation.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Hashed]
#23545534 - 08/15/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said: I thank you for your experimentation.

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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23545816 - 08/16/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, seeing as how I've seen these industrial machines pound the living fuck out of pieces of metal and eventually make them glow red hot, I wouldn't bet any money that sterilization temps aren't achieved when they compress a block of coir.
It's easy to get an slight idea of the forces at work here. If we are able to get a leg operated air pump warm simply by pushing it with our feet, it's not that hard to simply imagine just how hot coir can get with tonnes of pressure compacting it. I mean, even if you just grabbed a piece of soft metal, say aluminium, and twisted it back and forth, it will end up too hot to handle with your bare hands. And that's just from KGs of pressure, not tonnes.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23545854 - 08/16/16 01:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23545872 - 08/16/16 01:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The principle of diesel engines.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23547538 - 08/16/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You guys have a great point. I found a video of a coir pith in use here, I can't tell if the coir is coming out hot or not?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23547603 - 08/16/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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He touched those fresh ones a few times. Excellent Music choice there coir press company
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23547744 - 08/16/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ha! Who ever produced that made quite few church ministry productions back in the 80's.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23547751 - 08/16/16 06:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can see some guy in rural india jamming on a cassette of music like that thinking it's some good american shit
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23547754 - 08/16/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, your on point, that was totally from a fucking cassette
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Hashed
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23547758 - 08/16/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: I can see some guy in rural india jamming on a cassette of music like that thinking it's some good american shit

Imagine chucking like 10kgs of straight golden keif into that machine.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Hashed]
#23547765 - 08/16/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said:
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: I can see some guy in rural india jamming on a cassette of music like that thinking it's some good american shit

Imagine chucking like 10kgs of straight golden keif into that machine. 
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD

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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23547772 - 08/16/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Guess who is envious today.
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Rooster Cogburn
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Hashed]
#23548351 - 08/16/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said: Guess who is envious today.

I'm a flower guy myself, but that was extremely impressive.
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Hashed
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
#23548408 - 08/16/16 10:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fucking hell, that keif video tho, they have enough keif on the ground alone to get mega blazed, I know they have shit loads, but still wastfull, imagine all the hungry Africans who could get high from the keif on the ground... 
I would rather smoke straight keif and hash than flower, get ultra blazed minus the plant material. 
Anyway, can't wait for the next update.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: Hashed]
#23548419 - 08/16/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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That much where I live is worth probably half of the national debt
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Hashed
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Re: How reliable is the method of pasteurize coir just adding boiling water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23548444 - 08/16/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: That much where I live is worth probably half of the national debt
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