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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun
    #23535416 - 08/12/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?

Would ignorance be bliss?


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535479 - 08/12/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

lsd is the province of the gods
and I'm immigrating


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23535542 - 08/12/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I find knowledge in a sea of ignorance is bliss. At first it was terrifying for me and caused my anxiety to peak but now I'm just really thankful that I'm as aware as I consider myself to be of the things going on around me and the world.
I don't mean finding knowledge as in spending hours upon hours searching alternative news sources for what you can find about the "Illuminati", but rather just education on life in general, which is something that most of the population has seem to have lost.

It's unfortunate of the things going on, but I believe they're happening for a reason and I'm doing my best to contribute what I can to LIFE. I'd rather that man had not gotten this knowledge by contributing so much time and effort to war in the first place, but it is what it is and it's out there. Making myself paranoid over nuclear weapons when I could get hit by a car today just seems a little silly.

We're all dying in one way or another, I think what matters is what you do in that time, not trying to live forever and focus on so much negativity. Being a light in a world of darkness is all that can really be asked in these times and requires enough courage in itself and requires building yourself up mentally, not bringing yourself down with fear.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23535809 - 08/12/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?





I think most of us can relate to Lame Deer’s feeling even if we don’t believe in many Gods,
or believe in the idea that ‘things’ can be meant,
or the idea that what is meant by these powerful forces or the universe can be violated;
(problematical theology).

As regards the probability of nuclear mishaps, there have already been lots, some immense and still ongoing. Not only Fukushima and Chernobyl.

The size of the full list may shock some:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/14/nuclear-power-plant-accidents-list-rank

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=list+of+nuclear+mishaps&t=h_&ia=web

There are also the problems of nuclear waste disposal, and aging arsenals, North Korea, Iran, continued hostility between Pakistan and India both nuclear powers, all add up to a scary mix. 
Because of this there is nuclear clock:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nuclear+clock+countdown&t=h_&ia=web

But wait there’s more …

There are also issues of security (as when Russia broke up), & black markets & terrorism.

But wait there’s still more, some satellites are powered with dangerous radioactive fuels,
and with China which is becoming more militarily aggressive in the seas, also moving into space technology, and the US having a secret military space vehicle, the weaponization of space with especially dangerous items is unfortunately a possibility. The US did after all use spent uranium in bullets in Iraq. Once such stuff is more often in rockets and orbiting, the potential for more mishaps will escalate further.

Unfortunately one is reminded of thinking about closing the barn door after the horse...


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23535851 - 08/12/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I would also add that with staged radiation-implosion, there is no theoretical limit to the yield of a weapon.  If you can believe it.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535987 - 08/12/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes it's amazing, but of course it's not weapon size that is mainly the source of of all the dangers.

https://www.quora.com/Do-thermonuclear-weapons-have-a-yield-limit

"There are very few targets big enough to not be effectively destroyed by a one megaton weapon. For example here's the effect on London*:
As the explosive yield gets bigger, a higher and higher percentage of its energy dissipates in the air above ground zero, blasting a portion of the atmosphere out into space, so a hundred megaton bomb doesn't cause ten times as much damage as a one megaton bomb, because it blasts the same portion of atmosphere into space, just at a higher velocity"

also found this

"George Gonzalez, Four semesters of Physics! Passed all of them!
1.7k Views
Your basic H-bomb can be scaled up to any size, but it's not an efficient thing to do if you want to maximize damage.  The blast radius only goes up as the cube root of the megatons, which implies that to double the blast area, you have to go from like 1 to 4 megatons.     If you instead made two bombs, you only need two 1 megaton bombs.   Half the material."
- - - -
also interestingly cigarette smoking is a contributor to radiation exposure

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/graphic-science-radiation-exposure/

How many millisieverts are you getting?

Smoking one pack of cigarettes per day for a year: 0.36
Fukushima emergency workers per hour: 1.0

--------------------------------
Cancer risk in relation to radioactivity in tobacco.


http://www.acsa.net/HealthAlert/RadioBacco.html

Leaf tobacco contains minute amounts of lead 210 (210Pb) and polonium
210 (210Po) both of which are radioactive carcinogens and both of
which can be found in smoke from burning tobacco. Tobacco smoke also
contains carcinogens that are nonradioactive.

People who inhale tobacco smoke are exposed to higher concentrations of
radioactivity than nonsmokers. Deposits of 210Pb and alpha
particle-emitting 210Po form in the lungs of smokers, generating
localized radiation doses for greater than the radiation exposures humans
experience from natural sources. This radiation exposure, delivered 'to'
sensitive tissues for long periods of time, may induce cancer both alone
and synergistically with nonradioactive carcinogens.

This article explores the relationship between the radioactive and
nonradioactive carcinogens in leaf tobacco and tobacco smoke and the risk
of cancer in those who inhale tobacco smoke.

Almost all externally-induced cancer in humans is reported to be caused by
cigarette smoking, alcohol and some foods.[1] In the 1960s it was reported
that leaf tobacco and tobacco smoke contained radioactivity,[2-6] and it
was noted that people who inhale tobacco smoke retain smoke-borne
radioisotopes in their lungs.[2,4,6]


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23535991 - 08/12/16 08:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lame shaman? Layman?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23536044 - 08/12/16 08:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That's very interesting, laughingdog.  Yes, it's my understanding that most of the strategic weapons in the U.S. stockpile are not more than 10 megatons equivalent TNT.  Of course, there are very many that are much smaller than this.

And naturally, Obama signed off on a major upgrade and expansion of the arsenal, to occur over the next few years to the tune of over a trillion dollars.  I suppose this was largely a response to the Russians doing the same, although I cannot say.

Kinda the wrong direction, if you ask me.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23536263 - 08/12/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
...
And naturally, Obama signed off on a major upgrade and expansion of the arsenal, to occur over the next few years to the tune of over a trillion dollars.  I suppose this was largely a response to the Russians doing the same, although I cannot say.

Kinda the wrong direction, if you ask me.




yes the wrong direction also in terms of the ripple effects on society.
Think of all the jobs, and the mindsets people will develop working as part of such an enterprise. What do the thousands of workers tell their kids they do for a living? And what beliefs must they form to justify their behavior to themselves? Aside from the issues of handling so much radioactive material. I really can't imagine in detail the ripple effects on society as them seem truly nightmarish.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: laughingdog]
    #23536303 - 08/12/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Very interesting point.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23538601 - 08/13/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sad to say Fukushima is the disaster, along with many others.  Now, if you are speaking of thermonuclear war, then that's a different thing.  Still the major meltdown of what six nuclear plants ongoing for as long as we can imagine, is being completely or for the most part not reported.

It's not good, as they say. 



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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23538870 - 08/13/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nuclear disaster?  SIX reactors including a MOX one exploded on 3/11/11 and melted into the Pacific Ocean, which is dying every day.



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Invisibleiiilil
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #23539431 - 08/14/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 





You can rewind this all the way back to the moment that man was made aware. Every new 'discovery' is only a echoing of this event. Awareness is problematic due to the limits of understanding one can maintain. As such, one will always be unaware of the full scope of consequences of what they make manifest. Furthermore, even with the best intent, man will never fully understand their 'hearts'. So, fault upon fault compound with time with further along manifestations from man.

Thus, one gains comfort coming to know and understand : It's going to be what its going to be. From this framing, one can also perceive why a 'certain awareness' would be the province of one who is 'all knowing' and not the province of man who will never be as such.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
How comfortable are you with man's knowledge? 




The wheels were set in motion long ago. It's going to play out how its going to play out.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?





Although man can destroy itself many times over with what it currently has, there are many (yet to be discovered) capabilities of man that would make thermo-nuclear weaponry seem like child's play. The concern should not be about the knowledge or capability. The concern should be about the manifestation of destruction. You can't prevent the expansion of knowledge/understanding. So, it's more a question of what man decides to do with it as it expands.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Would ignorance be bliss?




That ship sailed some time ago...


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952







A very good read :


The simple solution of course would be to not go to war and fight each other.
Alas, man's heart made manifest....
As for what man fashions for tools of war... Well, so long as it is in man's heart to fight, it's going to be whatever are the best tools that existing knowledge can fashion.

Robert Oppenheimer really went to town on himself during and after-the-fact... However, if it weren't him and other scientist who made the tools, someone else in some other time would have and it would have been used just the same... Furthermore, it is said that nukes actually aloud man to live on and thrive. After a few were dropped, people really had to grow up !
Now proliferated, it's quite clear that no one wars with a country who has them.

So now... if someone is dumb enough to mess with someone who has them over what? Greed and power.. And along the clear progression that that point, people have their collective heads up their asses concerned with way less important things...

Then, I guess its going to be what its going to be right? Just like all the other tragic wars of a time's past .. That no one 'apparently' saw coming or could stop ...


Same as its always been.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: iiilil]
    #23539846 - 08/14/16 04:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the root problem is a heroic warrior ego mindset which deeply sees its main enemy is very nature itself which 'he' regards as feminine and chaotic, and so presumes that his idea of 'order' must be imposed over not only the natural world, but also other species, and human nature!

If it is understood that the myths these people go by are Luciferian; that they really believe 'Lucifer' is a god, but more so meaning worshiping themselve as gods, and their acquiring occult knowledge and technological power over all others, and the natural world, and that they see nuclear power as good because they believe 'matter' is dark and needs their 'light':

Quote:

Seeking the Light

Alice Bailey's enthusiasm for the Light went as far as to welcome the detonations of the atomic bombs in August 1945 as a great spiritual event. The Tibetan DK [an 'ascended master' she claimed to 'channel'] and Alice Bailey wrote in "The Externalisation of the Hierarchy" (see note 33) on 9 August 1945, the very day that Nagasaki was bombed, that a new era would now be ushered in by the scientists of the world and that one hidden purpose of the World War had been to facilitate this release of "cosmic energy". "The Lords of Liberation had directed an inflow of extra-planetary energy" and thanks to successful invocations from Bailey's followers they had been able to help the scientists to finish the bomb. Bailey and DK go on to say that the Japanese, whose nervous system is of the 4th root-race, were due to be destroyed "... .and the consequent release of their imprisoned souls is a necessary happening; it is the justification of the use of the atomic bomb upon the Japanese population." (see note 33a). Alice Bailey enthused that the atomic bomb meant that an aspect of matter was released thus "freeing some of the soul force within the atom" and she claims that this was a great initiation for matter and brought the work of the World Saviour into the world of substance. It also makes space-flight more possible as space-probes today are nuclear power fuelled!

Sir George Trevelyan believed that Christ took over the etheric body of Earth and defeated death itself and is present in every nuclear centre. He hoped therefore that if the button was to be pressed it would signal a vast light filling the Heavens announcing the presence of Christ and would not be a nuclear holocaust. Atomic energy will bring about a New World Order, prophesied DK, and this has come only too true as nuclear power has led to an ever more authoritarian police and military state. The New World Order is controlled by the USA, the world's policeman.

Bailey and her followers promote a World Government as "those who are to walk into the Light" need it, and it will facilitate the emergence of the Masters and the Hierarchy on Earth. The Lucis Trust is on the roster of the Economic and Social Council of the UN. which is seen by Bailey's followers as a World Government in the making. When the UN was formed in 1945 it was entirely controlled by the nuclear nations and Bailey wrote that nothing must defy the Forces of Light working through the UN, an implied threat to socialist and Third World countries. Monica Sjoo




SO, if one is understanding of the insane myths the Nazis believed which fueled their energy drive and purpose, so it continues with these insane beliefs! It is THAT we need to understand and expose. They use all forms of propaganda to try and manipulate us to accept their insanity as being 'normal':



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: zzripz]
    #23542215 - 08/14/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

does zzrips think that the world can be sustainable with constrained energy resources? this population size?


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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23546901 - 08/16/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

clarification: the sun is not a thermonuclear device.  it is a plasma discharge.  two very different phenomena.  nuclear power, splitting atoms, is an abomination of mans design.  there are no thermonuclear reactions in nature.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547001 - 08/16/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So you object to an old Indian chief calling nuclear weaponry "the fire of the sun"?

Moreover, there is fusion taking place inside of stars.  Right?


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master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547011 - 08/16/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

fusion doesnt exist.

since nuclear weapony is a modern development, the chief cannot be 'old'.  he told it like he saw it, it is a popular myth.  his tack is correct.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547018 - 08/16/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
fusion doesnt exist.




I'm gonna hafta come out and just say: What the fuck are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power


Quote:

since nuclear weapony is a modern development, the chief cannot be 'old'.  he told it like he saw it, it is a popular myth.  his tack is correct.




Quit being a putz.  Nuclear weaponry was first used in 1945.  Lame Deer's book came out in 1972.  He was old at the time.  What is your point?


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master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547035 - 08/16/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

if you mean he has seen many moons, that might be correct.  if you say old as in long ago, you are showing your age bias.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547044 - 08/16/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Whatever's clever man.


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master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547047 - 08/16/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

fusion doesnt exist.  read your link carefully.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547080 - 08/16/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Frankly I see little need.


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master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547127 - 08/16/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ah, a no it all.  i suppose if fusion research was responsible for my livelyhood i also would believe in it.  plasma induced state changes are not the fusion you seek.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547158 - 08/16/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't mean to come off as a know-it-all, I was only referring to the fact that I am not interested in your referring me to the link.  I don't feel the need to revise my concept of fusion, or entertain your assertion that it is fictitious.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23547167 - 08/16/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i'd ask for a proof of the theory of no-fusion but....


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master of fire

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23547189 - 08/16/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

theories are not reality.  perhaps you could link to proof of an actual fusion reaction?  not research but an actual fusion reactor.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547219 - 08/16/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineIjuzWWa4N
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23547226 - 08/16/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Its interesting to think not more than 50 years from now almost everyone involved in the current control of nuclear power will have shifted hands to a new generation.  I wonder what the parents of the super elite tell their kids when they're explaining to them the authority they have over the next generation of the planet.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: IjuzWWa4N]
    #23547251 - 08/16/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

to be clear: not interested in parlor tricks that simply waste energy.  a chicken can do the same with less input to create calcium.  the fire of alchemy.  show us your sustained plasma reaction.


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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23616961 - 09/06/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Looking at men like Kristian Birkeland, Hannes Alfven, Nikola Tesla, Eric Dollard, Ralph Jeurgens, Donlad Scott, Anthony Peratt, Halton Arp, and several others there is very strong and clear experimental evidence that the sun is made of electrically active plasma and that any nuclear powered activity is happening on the surface of the sun and not in its core.



One of the major problems physics has faced for the last 100+ years is that Newton was incomplete in his exploration of gravity. He mathematically concluded it was based on mass and was an action at a distance that required no medium to propagate the force.  However, in his philosophical treatises on the his work he also explained that he had no real idea what gravity was or its source. It might be a pulling force, or a pushing force, and that it was probably electrical and magnetic in origin.  Michael Faraday continued this work, but was largely ignored when he explained that the universe was full of filaments and there was no action at a distance without a medium.  Maxwell outpaced most minds with his extensive analysis in electromagnetism, so much so that eventually Oliver Heaviside and Steinmetz each wrote extended works on making Maxwell more usable for engineering purposes.  What are generally called Maxwell's equations today are really Heaviside's equations. 

Krisitan Birkleand discovered the Aurora Borealis were created by electrical disturbances in the ionosphere.  Through experiments he was able to prove that the energy was coming from the sun. He was also able to prove that powerful current s flow through space, they are now called Birkeland Currents in his honor. 

A nasty bit of history that led to the bad physics of Einstein being accepted was the take over of electrical research by the US Navy starting in 1913.  Tesla was working with Steinmetz and many other men to create a free energy transmission system that used faster than light longitudinal waves.  These waves transmitted primarily the through he earth at π/2*c or 1.57 times the speed of light.  Yet Tesla was also able to measure cosmic rays at 50 times the speed of light. Tesla was a big supporter of Aether theory, but the aether was almost impossible to detect, that is until Irving Langmuir invented the probe that was named after him.  The Langmuir probe is able to enter an electrically charged environment and not become saturated with the charge thus allowing readings to be taken. The Aether is very similar to Plasma, which can be shown to make up 99.999% of the universe.  By 1919, however, The US Navy had taken over Tesla's,, Alexanderson's, and Marconi's radio Antenna and electrical transmission systems and faster than light experimentation stopped and was was buried. JP Morgan refused to fund Tesla and his free energy and the world has suffered since.  If Yu want to understand more look up Telluric Currents in the earth.

With Einstein, he followed the same model as the Greeks and the late Victorian to early 20th century mathematicians.  When their experiments could not explain what they were observing they began to abandon empirical science and began practicing thought experiments that led to inventive mathematics which did not accurately describe the universe, only the concepts that existed in the imaginations of the men playing with math and theories.  That is where the bad science of entropy, Big Bang, black holes, relativity, nuclear sun, and neutron stars, and dark matter, and so much more
Came from.  Inventive mathematics and thought experiments.  Below is a short introductory documentary that examines just how bad modern astrophysics is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL35A32C6E877FEAC3&v=zy0KBzipGK4

The sun was declared to be nuclear by Sir Arthur Eddington to put an e d to the debate on whether the sun was internally or externally powered.  Nuclear Technology was new in his day, so he created thought experiments and formulated a theory of a nuclear powered sun that had no empricsl evidence to prove it during his day and still has no evidence for it today. Krisitan Birkeland and others studying electrically charged plasma were describing the sun as electrical in nature. Using his power in society and politics Eddington would not allow questions to be asked of his theory.

His support of the theories of relativity and Big Bang had a similar tone and the world was quickly washed over with inventive mathematics.  As an example, Ron Hatch wrote the software that allows the GPS systems to work. He first tried using relativistic equations and they failed, they don't work. He instead had to use customized versions od the Lorentz transformations to allow GPS to work. Any reference to GPS proving relativity is a misrepresentation of the facts. GPS only proves the Lorentz Transforms, and has no bearing on relativity.  So much of the science supported by Neil DeGrasse Tyson and major media is just wrong.  It's a modern mythology and it is not science. 

The SAFIRE project is finding success at creating an electrical sun.

Standard model astrophysics is a failing paradigm, a dying mythology...


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23617533 - 09/06/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we all look forward to your write-up in Physical Review Letters.  The way you write, I think you can make it in.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23617976 - 09/06/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It has very little to do with me, as much as you would like it to it seems.  There are already several open challenges from leading scientists against the Big Bang, the corrupt peer review system, and standard model physics as a whole.

As an example of scientists turning on the current model of scientific reporting and analysis,

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/05/scientific-regress,


And it was also an issue in 1950 , http://www.compilerpress.ca/Competitiveness/Anno/Anno%20Polanyi%20Scientific%20Beliefs%20Ethics%201950.htm?from=timeline&isappinstalled=0

A scientific research paper by Anthony Peratt during his time as a researcher at Los Alamos Laboratories that discusses the evidence for an abundance of plasma in the universe and the electromagnetic forces created by electrified plasma and the evidence that and data that provides for Galaxy formation without dark matter.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1996Ap%26SS.244...89P&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf

We are in a mini dark ages of science. Not unlike Galileo vs the geocentric view of the universe.
http://philpapers.org/archive/HOLTDO-13.pdf

Donald Scott's "The Electric Sky" offers a much deeper look into the last 100 years of scientific development and where experimental science and the speculative mathematics of standard model physics diverged.

Eric Dollard gives us the history of electrical engineering up to the death of Steinmetz, including Tesla and many others and their discovery and use of super-luminal power and radio transmission systems. 


Worry not, I don't expect anyone to actually take the time to read any of these articles or watch the videos, I assume they will remain firmly bigoted in their mainstream dogmatism about science and not pay any attention to information that challenges their cherished world view, regardless of how many qualified minds have written books and papers in challenge of it.  I expect them to be petty and apathetic about the message like DividedQuantum and thrust limp character assignations my way, or try to eventually silence me as a heretic or blasphemer by labeling me as a pseudoscience advocate or a conspiracy theorist, when the real pseudoscience is the ad hoc mathematics and patchwork theories of standard model physics.  Doesn't bother me much, I'm just providing a few links to the information for people with even a modicum of active curiosity to be able to investigate.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618014 - 09/06/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I appreciate your insight.  As if it mattered (pun intended), I am not especially keen on Standard Model physics myself.  I didn't mean disrespect by the above post.  I just wonder why, if there is science behind many of the things you set forth, it's taken so long to become adopted by the scientific community.  They may have an agenda, and act politically, but if there's overwhelming evidence they would be forced to acknowledge it.  Are there experimental gaps?  I don't get it.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23618324 - 09/06/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well, to be honest and more polite, this is what I have discovered. 

First, people like their beliefs.  If you dig into the history of science since the Greeks, or even back to Babylon and Egypt, there is a recurring pattern that emerges, a telescoping pattern of scientific discovery and regress.  Here is a video by Dewey B Larson, creator of the Reciprocal System of Theory which closely follows concepts of Sympathetic Vibratory Physics. 


Sumerians and Egyptians had some good science and even a budding version of Calculus, which was based on inductive reasoning and empirical study and data collection. This lasted for a few thousand years.  Then the Greeks took over and being a very philosophical group, used deductive reasoning, as in looking at a situation and imagining what the causes might be, created geocentrism, or the earth is the center of the universe.  When observation didn't match their theory, they had to invent a mathematics *to solve the inconsitencies between theory and observations.  These inventive corrections were centered around epicycles. 

The purpose of an epicycle is to enable planetary orbits to be circular, even when the observed orbits were not.  Geocentrism is based on a few main principles,
The earth is the center of the universe,
All the heavenly bodies were perfect unblemished spheres,
All heavenly bodies had perfectly circular orbits around the earth.

Well, it didn't take long for that fall apart, so the epicycle was invented, being a smaller circle with its center on the larger circle of the orbit to allow for small wobble of the planet while on its perfectly circular orbit.  If that didn't work, a second epicycle was added to the first, and so on.  As Larson points out, the math was good, the theory was bad.

For 1400 years this lasted, until Kepler and Copernicus and Galileo challenged the concept of geocentrism by supporting heliocentrism, or the sun is the center of the universe.  Galileo was imprisoned for his use of a telescope and reporting on what he had OBSERVED, that the heavenly bodies were not perfect unblemished spheres, that the earth was not the center of the universe, and that the orbits were not circular.  He tried to show powerful people, and they looked, and they saw he was right, and Galileo was told that on his life he had better not challenge the church or their popular view of science, because it will go badly for him to embarrass the ruling class and the ideas they preach to the world...

Issac Newton came along and with Leibniz created modern calculus and the beginning of modern physics.  However, these men had very little experience with electricity, even though Newton was sure one day gravity would be discovered to be electromagnetic in source, all he had to work with was his ideas of mass and density and force and temperature and inertia etc.. all based on the work of kepler and others and his observations of the actions of bodies in limited experiments on earth.  Newton and Leibniz were very much men of their time, very deep into the power of the church, and they believed that mathematics when properly applied was the infallible language of god.  so much so that Leibniz invented what might be the first binary mathematics, stating that the simple representations of 0 and 1 were the ultimate expression of God's mind and how the universe worked.  Yet, math is only language and it can be used to create anything, whether it is a part of the observable universe or not.

Newton was very protective of his political power and insisted that his physics and math was a universal law, since it was so important to go down in history as the man who solved the secrets of the universe.  Breaking free of the church in small measures and making tools to be used to improve the world, a rebirth of Greek thought that flooded the European minds, and more were part of this age. 

And it worked for a little while, he had his detractors almost immediately and they grew as time went by.  Experimental discoveries that on earth gravity had different measurements in different areas and different conditions, inertia was not the same everywhere, and other problems.  But one of the biggest issues with Newtonian Dynamics came from tests of thermodynamics and heated gases.  This led to the idea of Entropy. 

Then Faraday and Maxwell and Tesla and a man named John Keely which almost no ones knows (sympathetic vibratory physics) and many others over the next couple hundred years were discovering the powers of electricity.  Faraday and his contemporaries proposed the Aether, Maxwell extended the electromagnetic ideas and experiments and wrote so much that no one ever wanted to touch it, and Tesla discovered that their are 3 kinds of primary electrical waves, Trasnverse (or sine wave transmissions that are limited to speed of light propagation), longitudinal waves which are scalar and are easily measured at pi/2 * c where c is the speed of light (1.57 times the speed of light) and Tesla detected longitudinal waves that traveled as fast as 50 times the speed of light in space.  and finally impulse waves, induction and capacitance absorbed from the aether essentially.  This section has lots of information in it which is covered by Eric Dollard in the above post is a link to his long talk.

but, as for Newtonian Dynamics, all this research was showing there were problems in physics, which created problems for all manner of people who believed with unyielding dogmatism in the universal truth of Newton and his work.  But, it was still falling apart during various experiments and observations in big ways.  One of the biggest, and possibly the event that led directly into the birth of information theory and the overuse and abuse of Statistics and Probability in science, especially phsysics, was entoropy and particle movement in a heated gas, math became the norm, not data collection and experimentation. 

This event was centered around the study of super heated gases and the observations of the movements of particles as they followed the currents of heat convection.  This was at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century.  In truth, entropy is just heat dissipation, it has nothing to do with order and chaos.  It was a measurement of heat dissipation in a closed system of super heated gas.  When the gas cooled there was no longer a way to determine what the particles inside the gas were doing, as the convection currents seemed to disappear except on the surface of the gas, the center was unknown.  At this time, Maxwell had fully developed eletromagnetic theories of matter movement and distribution that would have helped, Lorentz force equations would have helped, the work of Kristian Birkeland and electrified gasses and heated gases would have helped, and John Keely and his work on Sympathetic Vibratory Physics would have helped.  However, these men required moving away from Newton, and that was unacceptable because Newton had defined the Universal Law of Physics, and any deviation from a Universal Law by nature was not allowed...  (hopefully you can see the Hubris in that mode of thought).  Now entropy and random movement and unpredictability are born, enter weird science like quantum mathematics and it speculative investigations into space, most of which are just dead wrong as far as connecting to physical reality.  Like Epicycles, the math might work, but the concepts don't match reality.

What happened next was the mathematicians got involved in the problem of Entropy and trying to discover what was happening in the gas, what wast that randomness.  Claude Shannon of Bell Labs helped create information theory by creating the equations for Entropy (order and chaos, noise and patterns), which took science down a rabbit hole it has never recovered from.  Yes, his math produced limited results, it was not in fact the truth of the physical situation, it was a mathematical filtering of noisy data to produce information that agreed with preconceived notions of researchers, Newton was not allowed to be wrong... contrary to the growing evidence from electrical studies.  This all came to a head in stages.

In 1913 in the USA, the US Navy became involved in the creation of RCA (Radio corporation of America).  Part of the reason this happened is that Nikolai Tesla owned all the patents for Radio transmission and several patents on power generation and transmission.  Bell Labs, GE, and several other groups wanted a way to get around Tesla and create technology that could be used for profit, as opposed to Tesla who wanted to give it all away for free.  Tesla had the help of Steinmetz and others, but when Tesla's primary financial backers died on the Titanic, he was left with JP Morgan who didn't like the idea of free energy and Morgan and his banking and Industrialist buddies set the Navy on Tesla and other people who had been investigating his technology, namely faster than light transmissions of radio and electricity, and some other things.  The men also working with Tesla's tech were Marconi, and Alexanderson and maybe a couple of others who are not so famous, all had their research either seized or destroyed during the creation of RCA which gave all power of research into Electricity and eventually physics into the hands of the US Navy.  WWI became a perfect platform for fascistic destruction of research and control of information.  By 1919, most of the world had forgotten about Tesla and his free energy and they were recovering from the war and beginning to buy up the technology put forward by Morgan and his money men, oil and coal and all the nasty stuff we have to deal with today.  One of the primary enemies of Tesla was Edison who used all manner of tricks and theft and lies to create much of his industry, even though there was good experiment in there as well.  The world of money and industrialization had turned on Tesla and electrical engineers and experimental physicists so that a few powerful men could control the knowledge and technology.

However, the battle continued.  During all of this and continuing today, the Royal Academy of Science in London defended Newton and any other person who supported their standardized ideas, crushing any research that went against their certified laws of the universe.  Newton was a big deal in the Royal Academy, he was very proud to be a member and used that post to dogmatize science much like the church had before him. 

In the 20's came the push between an externally powered sun, meaning electrical in nature as theorized by Kristian Birkeland and other plasma researchers with their experimental physics, and an internally powered sun which was supported by people who had a Mechanistic view of the physics of the universe.  One of the biggest supporters was Sir Arthur Eddington.  Before Eddington's time, Lord Kelvin in 1900 declared that all of physics had been discovered and now it was only in the details (we have heard that again in this generation...), then nuclear power discovered by Curie took the stage, and that blew the doors off the minds of the scientific elite.  But, it also gave Eddington fuel for his imagination.  He worked out some thought experiments in which nuclear power could be the internal engine for the sun.  He, like Newton before him, used his political power and association with the Royal Academy of Sciences to make his declaration (which had zero empirical evidence) into a physical law and it began to be taught as such.  Observation and experiment continued to be a problem, and so in not so many words he openly stated that it did not matter what evidence was brought against his theory, and even if his theory was shown to be full of errors, it was the correct theory and the only theory that could be used and he would certify that with his political power and the backing of the state science academy.  That fucked everything up.

Now Eddington was a force to be dealt with.  A real muppet in a monkey suit. 
About the same time George Lemaitre was a catholic priest who had gone to MIT and learned some Newtonian dynamics.  He was very keen on the idea of combining Newton with Genesis and the big bang was born.  Again, no empirical evidence, just inventive imagination.  Einstein had done the same with his relativity theory.  Einstein is under fire currently as a plagiarist.  The research into his career shows that while a patent clerk he had access to all the scientific papers of the 100+ years before he published his 1905 paper and had used their content without understanding it fully and without giving proper reference and citation to the papers he stole his ideas from.  There is also evidence that he had other people during his career flush out the mathematics of relativity, and he used it in his work without giving proper credit.  But, that aside, Einstein also openly stated that Empirical science had failed to prove his theories correct, so there must be a problem with experiments and that only inventive THOUGHT EXPERIMENTS (not real experiments) could be used to determine the nature of the universe.  this led to more inventive mathematics. 

Now, by this point, information theory and inventive mathematics was already growing and it was becoming very popular to use math to prove things.  There was the Principa Mathematica which tried to prove the completeness of mathematical theory, and Kurt Godel broke that system with his incompleteness theorem.  Math was still being treated as the infallible language of God.

Other issues with science were that Newtonian dynamics accounted for the rotation of the galaxies and the formation of solar systems and super clusters and more.  Yet it failed to predict what was observed.  This is part of why Einstein invented relativity.  However, several experiments as far back as the 1920's have falsified relativity, yet it still persists because the scientific establishment will not let it go, it is the law of their science.  It is mathematically unsound and experimentally falsified many times over.

When Einstein produced his first theory of relativity, it was still not known that the Milky Way was a Galaxy in a universe of Galaxies.  It was thought that all the stars in the sky were part of the one and only galaxy and that was the universe.  Well, observation blew that out of the water and other observations forced Einstein to create his second theory of relativity which didn't agree with his fist (1 special, 2 general).  Einstein was made into a folk hero, and modern science god even though 111 years of effort have been exerted into fighting the Royal Academy of Science and their choices of who to support when it came to science.  Usually science that only supports the corporate agenda of making money comes out of the Royal Academy, very troubling. 

Dark Matter was invented when there was not enough gravitational masses in the observational sky to account for the motion of the universe. Dark energy and Dark light were also adhoc inventions when observation broke the theories.

To put the issue into perspective, electromagnetics in plasma in space is up to 10^39 times more powerful than gravity.  That is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times more powerful than gravity which is a meaningless force on a universal scale.  This is created by electricity in plasma in space.  We can detect the electricity and the electromagnetism, yet standard model physics ignores it to sustain their dogmatic deductive inventive mathematics that gravity is the king of the universe, even though observation and experiment prove them wrong.  It has been stated multiple times that scientists know electricity exists in space, and so do massive electromagnetic sources, yet they have effect on space.  That is the position of standard model physics, when all observations and experiments from electrical engineers and plasma physicists show the opposite to be true.

we are back again to Galileo vs the State.... 

There is a lot more I can get into, but between your dislike of my poor writing style, my niece is getting of the bus soon, and I don't have time to proofread this so I do ask for forgiveness for its incompleteness and brevity, but there is enough information here to get started. 

names to look into,

Hannes Alfven (Nobel Prize for his work with Plasma Physics and electricity in space)  His work is largely ignored, even though it has been very powerful in predicting space.

Halton Arp.

Ralph Jeurgens

Anthony Peratt  (He showed through experiment and super computer modeling of the data that there is no need for Dark Matter in the universe).

Stephen Crothers (he has written a number of papers showing that black holes don't exist)

Donald Scott

Dale Pond

John Keely

and must too many other names to list.

quick edit to get rid of some minor errors in grammar and add some little details. 


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor] * 2
    #23618543 - 09/06/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

With all due respect, I read your entire post, and it sounds a little like conspiracy-theoryism applied to physics.  I know some about a good bit of what is in your post, and a lot about one part, and there are some inaccuracies.  I don't have the energy to go into details, but I assure anyone else reading these posts that the previous posts by egoproctor should be taken with a large grain of salt.  I imagine it would be just as difficult to prove the validity of your alt-hypotheses as to disprove the accepted, experiment-backed, peer-reviewed ones.


tl;dr  I have absolutely no agenda, have knowledge of many of the ideas in the previous post, and there are some flat historical inaccuracies, which makes me wonder about the alt-science.


And I very seriously doubt this is because I am brainwashed!


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23618593 - 09/06/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It is not that inaccurate.  It is just not reported in mainstream sources.

It is really a case of adhoc inventive mathematics that created the Cold dark matter model and big bang science.  Relativity is the same, it is just inventive mathematics. 

Misuse of statistics and probability theory have become so rampant in science that entire fields of study are unusable.  Take for instance that errors in the Statistical models for MRI machines have left over 40,000 studies suspect of margins of error up to 70% or more.

Modern journals and the peer review system have gotten to the point where the content of the article is not always even read, just the abstract and the conclusion.  If the reviewers like the people who are publishing the paper, and they agree with the abstract and the conclusion, they publish the paper without even investigating the claims made inside.  There is almost no repeat of the experiments, there is no checking of the mathematics in many of these publications.  Hundreds of studies in all branches of science cannot be repeated, and when they are investigated they are found to be based on faulty premises. 

it is an endemic problem across all of science, and it really started with physics.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618624 - 09/06/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well if the physics is good, why has it laid dormant all this time?  You can't keep legitimate science out of the academy for that long.  Tesla did his experiments a hundred plus years ago.  If there's a superluminal way to transmit energy, it would have come out by now, no doubt.  Academic science is a far cry from the Inquisition, man.

And your history about Tesla -- over half of it is wrong.  I studied Tesla intensely at one point (for my job), and even he couldn't get any of his own engineering to work at times.  He couldn't reproduce his own experiments!  George Westinghouse bankrolled him, he lost that, and Morgan thereafter financed him very generously until he couldn't get his generator at Wardenclyffe to work.  Tesla did some good work, but did a lot more crackpot nonsense that he couldn't get to work.  He was an engineer, anyway, and that's enough about Tesla.

I just don't buy that all of this can be kept secret from everyone.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618668 - 09/06/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

and, again, you did exactly what I said you would do.  You attacked my character and claimed I was spouting conspiracy theory, using your laziness as an excuse to escape dealing the content. 

we can get into specifics if you want to bring them up.  We can dig up Hannes Alfven and his work with Plasma Physics that won him a Nobel Prize and created a competing cosmology to the standard model.

We can look up Halton Arp and his observational and now further confirmed evidence that red shift is intrinsic in stars and galaxies in space and it is a determining factor in judging the age, content, and energy levels of quasars and galaxies, not their Doppler motion away from the earth.  He also observed and it has been confirmed that Quasars are born from the center of galaxies and follow the galactic jets, which are Birkeland currents, and eventually become smaller child galaxies in the arms of larger galaxies.  The Quasars even have physical links of nearly equally red shifted gas that connects them to the center of their parent galaxies.

We can look at Peratt and his work on Galaxy formation based on evidence from experiments in plasma laboratories.  He provides more than enough evidence that dark matter is not needed to explain the motions of structures in space.

Ralph Jeurgens and Donald Scott have created a very workable model of an electric sun which is being tested by the SAFIRE project as we speak.  So far the project has made very powerful and positive strides toward creating a sustainable plasma discharge that has all the most important features of the sun.

We can look at Kristian Birkeland and his work with filaments in electrified gas and his discovery of the source of The Aurora, that was denied by science for over 60 years until satellites were launched into space and confirmed his findings. 

We can look at Pierre Marie Robaitaille and his work with radiation and his showing that the background radiation claims of big bang model are wrong, that most of the radiation is coming  from the earth's oceans and that there is no evidence for a big bang using the data from background microwave radiation.

we can look at Ron Hatch, the mathematician and programmer who set up the GPS system.  He tried to use relativistic equations, and they didn't work.  So he had to instead modify the Lorentz transforms and apply some other mathematical tools in order to get the GPS systems to work.  He points out that proponents of GPS and relativity rely on the Lorentz transforms to support the rest of relativity theory, but it doens't, it only confirms that the Lorentz transforms worked, not that relativity is meaningful. 

We can keep digging and keep digging, and the deeper we dig the more standard model physics will be shown to be wrong and the more standard model physics will be shown to be science by committee vote, inventive adhoc mathematics, and press release.  It is not empirically defensible and that is the contention from Plasma Physics and Electric Universe theory.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618698 - 09/06/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://plasmauniverse.info/

a great site to dig into these topics as presented by Anthony Peratt.  He is one of the leading minds in Plasma Physics.  He was sponsored for years by the Department of Energy to do research into alternate forms of energy and high energy plasma research.

Look up Eric Dollard.  He has been able to recreate many of Tesla's experiments and codified them mathematically and they are readily reproducible.  He explains many of the issues Tesla had and that many other people had in recreating his work.

Some very important ideas on science..
Quotes on science

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.  - Max Planck

New scientific ideas never spring from a communal body, however organized, but rather from the head of an individually inspired researcher who struggles with his problems in lonely thought and unites all his thought on one single point which is his whole world for the moment.”  - Max Plank

History shows clearly that the advances of science have always been frustrated by the tyrannical influences of certain preconceived notions which were turned into unassailable dogmas. For that reason alone, every serious scientist should periodically make a profound reexamination of his basic principles.
—Louis de Broglie New Perspectives in Physics Basic Books, New York, 1962


These are not new issues with science.  Science is a dogmatic belief system like all other human endeavors.  Science is not self correcting in a fast way.  The peer review system makes sure that the most popular ideas they have put forth do not get challenged, even with amazing amounts of evidence.

A book called the death of science investigates this pattern of human activity.  http://philpapers.org/archive/HOLTDO-13.pdf

People fool themselves into a state of certainty, and in that certainty no evidence can alter their world view.  It is a major problem in science and it has always been a major problem.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618755 - 09/06/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You can look up Electric Universe Theory 
or Thunderbolts Project on Facebook and interact with thousands of people, including practicing scientists, that can give you all the information you want on the topic in much more detail than I am capable of at the moment.

Or there is the web page, https://amicrowavedplanet.com/ has some good info.

These ideas are not secret, they just are not popular.  There is a difference. It isn't some dark conspiracy as much as it is normal profiteering.

Look at Bayer and how they sold millions dollars of AIDS infected drugs to countries outside the USA in the 80's purely to make a profit.  They knew it was wrong, and yet the did it anyway, because there was so much money involved.  http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/08/05/bayer-sells-aids-infected-drug-banned-in-us-in-europe-asia.aspx

Physics is in the same boat.  Heads of Lockheed Martin and Ratheon and many other major weapons manufacturers have gotten behind Plasma cosmology and EU physics, but as many scientists and advocates of these new paradigms point out, it is a matter of economics.  Billions of dollars a year are raised and earned in support of standard model physics.  Countless careers are hinging on the continued support of these ideas, textbook writers, tenured professors, research labs like LIGO and groups that build super expensive dark matter detectors that detect nothing need these ideas to remain in place to keep their jobs and the money flowing in.  Grants are based on how fast they can be completed, what they will find, and whether or not they support the established paradigm.  It is all about keeping the money flow constant, regardless of if the science is good at this point.  That is a huge factor in why science hasn't changed, even though the research is publicly available and has been published in many of the most prestigious journals over the last 50 years and has been the center of several Nobel Prizes.  Ego and Greed, Hubris and Pride, not evil conspiracy.  That is what it breaks down to.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618793 - 09/06/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I appreciate the info, but you don't need to lecture me.  And I am not certain of anything.  I took issue with your history of Tesla, which I still feel is in error as I have studied him very intensively.  But that is neither here nor there.  As I said in a previous post, I also take issue with the standard model.  I'm not trying to say you're automatically full of shit.  As a matter of fact, I subscribe to Bohmian mechanics, which is far from mainstream.  Therefore, while I disagree with some of the things you've said, you're preaching to the choir a bit.  I do intend to look into some of the content you've provided, so I thank you for that.

And I have no doubt that institutional science is as corrupt as everything else.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618794 - 09/06/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

you are doing good work, brother, but waste not on a no it all.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23618954 - 09/06/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It is all good man.  I just started a job at Longhorn washing dishes 30+ hours a week near a major mall.  I am the only dishwasher with very little help catching the dishes out the other side of the belt fed machine.  I work friday night, satruday and sunday lunch and night, no break, and my hands are so fucked up I can barely type much less play guitar and my entire body is in pain. 

my knuckles feel arthritic, and my skin is raw and smooth and burning.  So, I am a bit out of sorts.

On Telsa, yes he did do some weird shit.  He got much of his ideas from John Keely.  Not everything worked, but people like Westinghouse and Edison also bankrolled him to complete their projects, not his own.  By the time he was ready to work on his own projects he was destitute and homeless, with a bit of work to his name, but Marconi created transverse radio to get around the Tesla patents. 

I think there is a lot of confusing info about Tesla, and you are probably right, he was an amazing guy, but he wasn't the end all be all.  He was the pinnacle of a movement, and human.  He was not the creator of much of anything directly, just an implementor and an experimentalist.  Edison and Westinghouse had far more failures to their names per product than I think Tesla did, and if not for Tesla their work would have not seen the light of day.


Other interesting cats are Daniel Winter and Phi based phase conjugate physics.  he is cracked a bit. but his work was the basis for groups like HearthMath Institute.  amazing shit he has. 

And Dale Pond, if you can get around the theosophical stuff, amazing work.


Dewey B Larson had some amazing work.  Not all correct, but in 2002 a new group started and continued his work correcting some of his issues.

Charles W Lucas has some really cool stuff on the electrodynamic forces of the universe.  he is able to show that there are no neutrons in atoms.

Pari Spolter has some interesting work on the Sun.

it is just not publishable in the mainstream corporatized journals.


and a really cool lady, Eileen Day McKusick, Tuning the Human Biofield, has empirical evidence proving a bioplaska energyfield around the body.  She has also determined the placement of memories as standing waves in the energy field as testable and repeatable patterns around the body based on age and type of memory.  It is really amazing work. 

enjoy, and thanks for putting up with me.  Now for more lotion on my hands, and its not to find a happy ending.


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Edited by egoproctor (09/06/16 04:58 PM)


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23619142 - 09/06/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
you are doing good work, brother, but waste not on a no it all.





Good thing it is not a private conversation but a public forum for debate and discussion.  there is always room to learn, and sometimes breaking discussions against walls of belief reveals cracks in the defenses of the dogma and opens perspective on concepts from the messenger.

I kept meaning to post this also, Rupert Sheldrake and his talk on his book the Science Delusion, in American called Science Set Free. 
great talk that directly deals with this conversation.

As Andrew Holster points out in his work the Death of Science, there has not been a major discovery in Science since the 60's, all that has been done is technological advancements of existing scientific knowledge. 

It is difficult to explain some of these concepts in short layman terms, and I am not a full master of the mathematics behind the concepts either, so I start with a philosophical perspective, which is where science really began and where its foundation should remain.

My current read is Making Sense by Peter Moddel, an investigation in the nature of consciousness.  It is interesting to compare his work to Hofstadter's GEB, Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow, Howard Bloom's The Lucifer Principle, Andrew Smart's Beyond Zero and One, The Master Algorithm, King Warrior Magician Lover, and Campbell and many others.  Following these concepts of human thought into how science has evolved reveals a way to investigate the patterns of group and individual thought.

Perhaps one day I will have a chance to find cohesion in the concepts and produce something of benefit, but until then, just spread the seeds of curiosity to break down the edifices of calcified dogmatism that prevent the evolution and growth of the human mind and spirit. 

Be well man,

I appreciate the support. 

A new video discussing the electricity of life from a friend of mine.  Always cool stuff developing on the horizon and under our noses.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23619246 - 09/06/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'll check that out. :thumbup:


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23619782 - 09/06/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Is electricity a form of fire?


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23620045 - 09/06/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

A couple of years ago I read Richard Rhodes Dark Sun: The Making of the H-Bomb and I enjoyed it. I usually don't read history, but I've always been somewhat obsessed by thermonuclear war. When the Lindon, NJ oil refinery blew up in 1971 and I was in front of my parents' house (drunk and yelling at night to get down before the shockwave hit, I ran inside to tell my parents to get on the floor. I was convinced by the nighttime flash like lightning and the image of lapping flames reflected off low clouds, that NYC had been nuked. Fortunately I was wrong, as NY TV was still being broadcast, and suddenly it was pre-empted by the news flash. I suppose it was a childhood of nuclear cover-up exercises, and Civil Defense drills. Plus, I had written the Atomic Energy Commission and they'd sent me a booklet of nuclear/thermonuclear tests in B&W. I once had a 2X3' poster of the Nagasaki mushroom cloud. Recently we started watching Manhattan, the TV series. Last night one of the scientists on the project came out with some "Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms..." Three of the scientists took them. But the names Psilocybe/Psilocybin/Psilocin were not created until the 1960s by Albert Hofmann. In 1943 the beloved carpophore was Stropharia cubensis (if it was known at all). Anyway, mushrooms and mushroom clouds seem somehow related. I ordered Rhodes' earlier book The Making of the Atomic Bomb because he is a clear writer and I enjoyed his other work. One of my best childhood friend's father worked on the Manhattan Project as an engineer, so I've always had a fear-fascination with the whole Cold war terror and technology. :shrug:

                                                                                                                     
Nuclear Mushroom                  Fist Fulla Mushrooms          Thermonuclear Mushroom


   


Many years ago I had a dream, a nightmare actually, wherein I witnessed a thermonuclear explosion and these words boomed in the dream. It is an archetypal theme that your Native American related about the Fire of the Sun, and the myth of Prometheus having stolen fire which was the possession of the gods in order to help humankind. Prometheus received a dismemberment death as punisment for his theft as you might know, chained to a rock on a mountaintop where an eagle sent by Zeus devoured his liver (the soul or live-r) by day, which would grow back by night, only to be devoured again in endless days of agony. Chiron the Centaur agreed to die for Prometheus to be released but not before Heracles killed the eagle with an arrow. I used this crude drawing as the frontispiece of a dream journal begun on Halloween 1989.



Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/06/16 10:17 PM)


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #23620420 - 09/06/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

electricity as we observe it in lightning is arc mode plasma, exactly like the arc welders and other devices that create standing electrical discharges.  Fire can be a glow mode plasma, and electricity can cause that as well, it is a lower charge density in the gas that creates a sustained glow, like a fluorescent light bulb or the photosphere of the sun.  But, there is also dark mode plasma, like what can be use to generate X-rays and radio frequencies emitted by electrically charged vacuum tubes that don't create visible light, but do create electromagnetic emissions.

Electricity as a phenomena is the result of the interaction between an electromagnetic field and an electrostatic force.  Or Electromotive force and dielectric force.  When the strength of these fields or forces is varied with each other over time it creates an electrical phenomena.  but magnetics alone is not electricity, and the dielectric (or electrostatic) is not electricity.  Only together do they create a flow of charge.  There are better explanations I am sure.  Yet I have not seen a single coherent and complete understanding published about what electricity actually is, only its effects. 

This might help, A history of the theory of Electricity.  It is a long explanation of the theories of electricity when it was being most heavily researched freely.

Here is an explanation of plasma and its relation to fire and a bit about electricity and ionization. https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/10/25/essential-guide-to-the-eu-chapter-3/

https://www.plasma-universe.com/Fire_(flame)

but in general, Fire is an oxidizing chemical reaction that produces heat and light, converting matter into another form in the process. 


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Edited by egoproctor (09/07/16 12:27 AM)


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23621228 - 09/07/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yes Mark, both of those Rhodes books are outstanding.  I confess my interest in nuclear weapons issues and technology as well.  I've been a bit obsessed since grade school.

Synchronistically, I just watched Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie a month or so ago.  It contains full color, hi-def footage of the major tests, from Trinity all the way through the test ban.  Really fascinating, I'm sure you'd like it.

There is no more consequential issue than this.  As long as these weapons exist, we are under a sword of Damocles.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621290 - 09/07/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yes Mark, both of those Rhodes books are outstanding.  I confess my interest in nuclear weapons issues and technology as well.  I've been a bit obsessed since grade school.

Synchronistically, I just watched Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie a month or so ago.  It contains full color, hi-def footage of the major tests, from Trinity all the way through the test ban.  Really fascinating, I'm sure you'd like it.

There is no more consequential issue than this.  As long as these weapons exist, we are under a sword of Damocles.





Just saw this. Thanks for the recommendation.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/donald-trump-super-pac-ad-nuclear


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23621331 - 09/07/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well he's certainly been stupidly careless and ignorant in his remarks.

This election cycle has been fucking surreal.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621653 - 09/07/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am aware that most people may find this hard to even consider, but nuclear weapons are no longer the greatest threat, and really were always more of a second rate weapon, when compared to the technology that John Keely developed and some reports and more recent tests confirm that Tesla and his contemporaries developed.

John Keely's focus was on sympathetic vibratory physics, discovering the resonant frequencies of practically every kind of solid and building technology that would turn it into dust, and then turn the dust into atoms, and he claimed the atoms in aether. 

http://magneticuniverse.com/discussion/34/universal-laws-never-before-revealed-keelys-secrets

Here is a book that discusses his life and career.  He developed anti-gravity technology and a lot more in the 1870's - 1890's before he finally died.  His work was unlike anything done by other people, although there are a couple of Russians from the same time period that had similar results.  Dale Pond has been able to recreate some of his technology.

Below is a YouTube link to Judy Wood, some of you may know about her.  It is a presentation of her evidence for directed energy weapons being used to take down the world trade center towers.  People may laugh, but her examination of the evidence is very compelling and overwhelmingly in support of the idea.



Further reading and digging I found this article about how the US Navy took over the technology of Marconi and destroyed or absorbed much of the work of other researchers, such as Tesla and Alexanderson and a few others just before and during WWI, and then continued to exert control over what was permissible for public experimentation and research. 
https://borderlandsciences.org/journal/vol/54-5/v54-1/Dollard_on_Bolinas_Wireless_Station.html

It is quite possible that the technological findings of Keely and Tesla and others were developed privately by the military and weapons manufacturing firms.  Nuclear weapons are dangerous, but they are nothing compared to direcdted energy weapons that can essentially atomize specific targets like the twin towers and leave the rest of the city largely untouched. 

Pancaking, Airplane Fuel, and thermite and other explanations just don't make sense when the full range of evidence is examined.  If you have not watched Judy Wood's talk, then it is going to be difficult to examine her points through skeptical retorts who also don't always watch the video or read the books, they just react based on their belief that these technologies do not exist.

I don't not know if it is correct that directed energy weapons were used, but I am fairly confident that the basic foundational technologies for such weapons has been around for over 130 years.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23621783 - 09/07/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)



Dale Pond from 94 talking about John Keely and Sympathetic Vibratory Physics, Radionics and Vibration Theory

http://svpwiki.com/SVPwiki+Home+Page ; Dale Pond's web page with nearly 40 years of research into the work of John Keely and others, focused on vibration theory.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621858 - 09/07/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?

Would ignorance be bliss?


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952







excerpted from Sir Basil Harts's "Strategy. Second Revised Edition"

Quote:

Preface:
The Hydrogen bomb is not the answer to the Western peoples' dream of full and final insurance of their security.  It is not a "cure-all" for the dangers that beset them.  While it has increased their striking power it has sharpened their anxiety and deepened their sense of insecurity.  The atomic bomb in 1945 looked to the responsible statesmen of the West an easy ans simple way on assuring a swift and complete victory--and subsequent world peace.  Their thought,Sir Winston Churchill says, was that "to bring the war to an end, to give peace to the world, to lay healing hands upon its tortured peoples by a manifestation of overwhelming power at the cost of a few explosions, seemed after all our toils and perils, a miracle of deliverance."  But the anxious state of the peoples of the free world today is a manifestation that the directing minds failed to think through the problem--of attaining peace through such a victory.
    They did not look beyond the immediate strategic aim of "winning the war" and were content to assume that military victory wouyld assure peace--an assumption contrary to the general experience of history.  The outcome has been the latest of many lessons that pure military strategy needs to be guided by the longer and wider view from the plane of grand strategy".
    In the circumstance of World War II, the pursuit of triumph was foredoomed to turn into tragedy, and futility.  A complete overthrow of Germany's power of resistance was bound to clear the way for Soviet Russia's domination of the Eurasian continent, and for a vast extension of Communist power in ll directions.  It was equally natural that the striking demonstration of atomic weapons with which the war closed should be followed by Russia's development of similar weapons.           
    No peace ever brought so little security and, after eight nerve-wracking years, the production of thermo-nuclear weapons has deepened the "victorious" peoples' sense of insecurity.  But that is not the only effect.
    The H-bomb, even in its trial explosions, has done more than anything else to make it plain that "total war" as a method, and "victory" as a war aim are out of date concepts.
    That has come to be recognized by the cheif exponents of strategic bombing.  Marshall of the R.A.F Sir John Slessor recently declared his belief that "total war as we have known it in the past forty years is a thing of the past...a world war in this day and age would be general suicide and the end of civilisation as we know it."  Marshal of the R.A.F Lord Tedder earlier emphasized the same point as "an accurate, cold statement of the actual possibilities," and said: "A contest using the atomic weapon would be no duel, but rather mutual suicide."
    Less logically he added: "That is scarcelyy a prospect to encourage aggression."  Less logically because a cold-blooded aggressor may cou t on his opponents ntural reluctance to commit suicide in response to a threat that is not clearly fatal.
    Would any responsible Government, when it came to that point, decide to use the H-bomb as an answer to indirect agression, or agression of a local and limited kind?  Would any responsible government take the lead in what the air cheifs themselves warn us would be "suicide"?  So it may be assumed that the H-bomb, would not be used against any menace less certainly and immediately fatal then itself.   
    The trust which statesmen place in such a weapon as a deterrent to aggression would seem to rest on an illusion.  The threat ton use it might likely be taken less seriously in the Kremlin than inn countries on the near side of the Iron Curtain whose peoples are perilously close to Russia and her strategic bombing forces.  The atomic threat, if exploited for their protection, may only suffice to weaken their resolution in resistance.  It's "back-blast" has already been very damaging.
    The H-bomb is more handicap than help to the policy of "containment".  To the extent that it reduces the likelyhood of all-out war, it increases the possiblities of "limited war" pursued by indirect and widespread local aggression.   
  The aggresoor can exploit a choice of techniques, differing in pattern but all designed to make headway while causing hesitancy--about employing counteraction with H-bombs or A-bombs.  For the "containment" of the menace we now become more dependant on "conventional weapons".  That conclusion, however, does not mean that we must fall back on conventional methods.  It should be an incentive to the development of newer ones.
    We have moved into a new era of strategy that is very different to what was assumed by the advocates of air-atomic power--the "revolutionaries" of the past era.  The strategy now being developed by our opponents is inspired by the dual idea of evading and hamstringing superior air power.  Ironically, rthe further we have developed the "massive" effect of the bombing weapon, the more we have helped  the progress of this new guerilla-type strategy.
    Our own strategy should be based on a clear grasp of this concept, and our military policy needs reorientation.  There is scope, and we might effectively develop it, for a counter strategy of corresponding kind.  Here one may remark, in parenthesis, that to wipe out cities with H-bombs would be to destroy our potential "fifth column" assets.
    The common assumption that atomic poewer has cancelled out strategy is ill-founded and misleading.  By carrying destructiveness to a "suicidal" extreme, atomic power is stimulating and accelerating a reversion to the indirect methods that are the essence of strategy--since they endow warfare with intelligent properties that raise it above the brute application of force.  Signs of such a reversion to the "indirect approach" had already become manifest in World War II where strategy played a greater part han in World War I--although grand strategy was missing.  Now the atomic deterrent to direct action on familiar lines is tending to foster a deeper strategic subtlety on the part of aggressors.  It thus becomes all the more important that this development should be matched by a similar understanding of strategical power on our side... 




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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23621992 - 09/07/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Would any responsible Government, when it came to that point, decide to use the H-bomb as an answer to indirect agression, or agression of a local and limited kind?  Would any responsible government take the lead in what the air cheifs themselves warn us would be "suicide"?




Israel would do it if the wrong cards were on the table.  Their military rallying-cry is "Masada shall never fall again."


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23622199 - 09/07/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There is conspiracy theory, and then there's facticity. I am genuinely worried about the facticity of CBR (Chemical, Biological, Radiological) warfare. "Red Mercury," Nazi anti-gravity Bell, exotic matter, Tesla's 'secret' death-ray, whatever. I am also unsettled by 9/11 - by the firefighters who disclosed they saw molten steel at ground and below ground level, days after the event. Jet fuel is kerosene which burns at around 1500° F. while steel melts at close to 5000°F. Of course there are those people who say the jets were holograms, based on the way they entered the buildings, like cartoon characters running through doors leaving the outline of their bodies. I have to draw the line somewhere or I will myself be experiencing a folie à plusieurs ("madness of many").


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622206 - 09/07/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ah, but the hypothetical has played out, and is playing out.  indirect aggression or aggression of a local and limited kind, like dispersed and semi random rocket attacks and other attacks against the public at large with small arms or explosives.  These things happen, and yet the missiles don't fly.  its because attacking terrorists (or guerrillas, or freedom fighters, depending on where you stand) with nuclear weapons would be like swatting flies with a sledgehammer.  It is:

1) Not particularly effective
2) A huge waste of energy
3) Even more likely to result in the destruction of things one would rather leave intact than the destruction of one's target


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23622527 - 09/07/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't mean terrorists, ballsalsa.  I mean that, if there were ever a situation in which a major strategic attack were imminent, Israel might pull the trigger.  I don't think the U.S. or Russia would, but I think Israel is capable of it.  Given history.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622537 - 09/07/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If they thought that their existence as a nation was in immediate jeopardy, probably. though i imagine that some attempt at a conventional decision would be made first if possible.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23622541 - 09/07/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


If they thought that their existence as a nation was in immediate jeopardy, probably. though i imagine that some attempt at a conventional decision would be made first if possible.




Absolutely.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622800 - 09/07/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've got no clue if we will be able to go another 50 years. But I highly doubt that some weapon
is going to be the end of total war. If you look back before major wars, we had convinced ourselves
"war is extinct, it can't happen nowadays."

Humanity will see total nuclear war at some point.

Has anyone seen the "dial-a-nuke" that is in development?
We are now developing new, smaller nuclear weapons that we will be tempted to actually use in combat.

It is my opinion that we have only begun to realize the usefulness of nuclear power.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23622862 - 09/07/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
I've got no clue if we will be able to go another 50 years. But I highly doubt that some weapon
is going to be the end of total war. If you look back before major wars, we had convinced ourselves
"war is extinct, it can't happen nowadays."

Humanity will see total nuclear war at some point.

Has anyone seen the "dial-a-nuke" that is in development?
We are now developing new, smaller nuclear weapons that we will be tempted to actually use in combat.

It is my opinion that we have only begun to realize the usefulness of nuclear power.




Well, it would be tough for the species to survive a hundred-year nuclear winter.

Yeah, the dial-a-nukes have been around for a while, actually.  What morbid logic behind those.

Nuclear power is extremely useful, safe and clean.  It is one of the best ways to generate clean energy.  Many nations use it, including ours.  What we have to watch for, clearly, is out-of-control proliferation of fissile materials that could be made into weapons, and nuclear proliferation in general.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622893 - 09/07/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure i understand the logic of a nuke of less than 1 kiloton.  We have conventional chemical explosives in our arsenal that are comparable, so what would be the advantage?


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23622911 - 09/07/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I'm not sure i understand the logic of a nuke of less than 1 kiloton.  We have conventional chemical explosives in our arsenal that are comparable, so what would be the advantage?




The only one I know of is that it makes battlefield deployment easier.  They can actually fire it in artillery.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622942 - 09/07/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ok, i can see why that would be cool for a military without total air superiority.  Still seems like an expensive weapon that relies on the enemy sitting in concentrated positions or on the target being a stationary one like a town or building.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23622958 - 09/07/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Don't ask me, man.  There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Army way.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622977 - 09/07/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

thats what i mean though.  there are tons of military boondoggles.  vehicles and weapons that will never be used, and were only produced in the first place because of political or financial motives(which are often one and the same).
Maybe dial-a-nukes are just corporate welfare for the military industrial complex?
thats all i was getting at


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23623026 - 09/07/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, yes, I think you're right.  The military-industrial establishment has been known to spend without frugality, as you say.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23623374 - 09/07/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Well, it would be tough for the species to survive a hundred-year nuclear winter.


I don't think a "nuclear winter" is a favored theory anymore. They estimate we wouldn't kick up as
much particulate matter as we originally thought and that it staying suspended and blotting out the sun for a period
of years isn't the probable case. Not that I'm at all in favor of giving it the ol' college try

As many nukes as we have got, I don't think we face an existential threat. I would imagine
most of Latin America, Africa, and even parts of Asia would escape being fired upon with nuclear weapons.

So, fingers crossed, I don't think nuclear war poses quite the existential threat to life, or even to
our species, that we believed back during the Cold War


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23623417 - 09/07/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I hope to Christ you're right.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23623487 - 09/07/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Both you and I are deader than disco though, no dancing around that haha, heh...


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23623580 - 09/07/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

yeah


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23623640 - 09/07/16 08:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We are getting to the point where bombs on landing on residential districts and hospitals.  I could see dial-a-nukes, or what Sci-fi likes to call tactical nukes, being deployed for areas of dense urban population, especially if the fallout is rather persistent and nasty.  a few Nuclear warheads that irradiate a couple of middle schools and children's hospitals, in the same way children's hospitals and schools are hit in Syria and other places.    Plus the wider EMP,

OOOOH and the Metal Gear walking battle tank scenario, a chain fed nuke launcher equipped to a small contingent of walking Mecha.  Just level an area tactically instead of a huge crater.

We are getting close, if not already there in prototype stages.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23623752 - 09/07/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I love the metal gear games, but I never understood the point of having a nuclear
mecha.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23624091 - 09/07/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Other than short range deployment of surgical targeting ability, like walking into DC and blowing up the White House.  Air Drop the Mecha into the mall or just outside of the city center and it has enough other armaments to get close enough to deploy the weapon. 

If you ever read the book Starship Troopers, they all carried mini nukes in their battle suits and used them to collapse bug caves if I remember correctly. 

If I was at war with America and I had that weaponry, I would walk the mecha into downtown NY city and nuke Times square during the New Years festivities or something similar.  Nuke the super bowl or a final four game. 

Now that they have real thermoptic camouflage and radar stealth tech for tanks in America, the Japanese are making the cloak version for people, the Mecha could be anywhere and nuke the next DNC or RNC or the Harvard Graduation ceremony.

There are uses for it.  Especially in a total war scenario.  Take out Niagra Falls generator and a couple of major sub stations in the midwest and the Hoover Damn, flood and cripple the country by cutting its power.

To be sure a nuclear powerplant or 2 could be taken out as well.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23624212 - 09/07/16 10:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

egoproctor said:
Other than short range deployment of surgical targeting ability, like walking into DC and blowing up the White House.  Air Drop the Mecha into the mall or just outside of the city center and it has enough other armaments to get close enough to deploy the weapon. 

If you ever read the book Starship Troopers, they all carried mini nukes in their battle suits and used them to collapse bug caves if I remember correctly. 

If I was at war with America and I had that weaponry, I would walk the mecha into downtown NY city and nuke Times square during the New Years festivities or something similar.  Nuke the super bowl or a final four game. 

Now that they have real thermoptic camouflage and radar stealth tech for tanks in America, the Japanese are making the cloak version for people, the Mecha could be anywhere and nuke the next DNC or RNC or the Harvard Graduation ceremony.

There are uses for it.  Especially in a total war scenario.  Take out Niagra Falls generator and a couple of major sub stations in the midwest and the Hoover Damn, flood and cripple the country by cutting its power.

To be sure a nuclear powerplant or 2 could be taken out as well.




why would you need a mini nuke, or a Mech for that matter, in order to do any of those things?


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23624386 - 09/08/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

why not.  Why do we need Nukes, or tanks, or guns that fire thousands of rounds a minute but will melt the barrel if they are not cooled before the minute is up?

Why do we need supersonic stealth bombers, why do we need to invent viruses and fungal infections and bacteria, why do we need Manchurian candidates, why do we need a CIA controlled international media paradigm that feeds the world all manner on distractions while corporations suck all the wealth and resources out of the earth and the people living on it?

Or just Because if we have it why not use it. 

Japan was ready to surrender in 1943 as long as they were able to keep their emperor.  The Japanese tried again to surrender in April of 1945 and they were denied.  The allies allowed Russia to invade and then dropped the bombs on civilian cities in order to show Russia the new toy they had, nothing to do with ending the war.  Japan would have surrendered 2 years before had the allies not asked for the emperor to step down.

The WWII atomic bombings were unnecessary and the propaganda surrounding and attempting to justify the bombs was just vile.  It was one of the most abdominal war time acts ever committed in the history of man, just fucking evil.

So repeat the process and do it because we have it as a flagrant show of force and willingness to waste resources and abuse the fuck out whoever we want.  That is the name of the modern warfare game.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23624468 - 09/08/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

why would you need a mini nuke, or a Mech for that matter, in order to do any of those things?


I suppose mininukes have the ability to fit into a smallspace, maybe even a luggage case, that would allow for a stealthy delivery.
All the fancy and expensive missile detection and protection
equipment we have developed won't help us. After the fact, it would be difficult to ascertain who was responsible even. There is no scene to investigate.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23624480 - 09/08/16 01:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

its not as easy to be so cavalier about it as we were in WWII.  Other people have that shit now for one thing.  without foolproof countermeasures against opposing nukes, one's own nukes become rather useless in a world of nuclear armed combatants. this is the reason the nuclear states are so keen to keep the rest of the world from getting nukes of their own.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23624485 - 09/08/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
. After the fact, it would be difficult to ascertain who was responsible even. There is no scene to investigate.




I would start with the very short list of militaries capable of producing and deploying a mini-nuke.  I imagine that there wouldn't be too many suspects to simply strike back at all of them with crippling and likely fatal nuclear strikes of our own(or conventional bombing campaigns for that matter)


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23624515 - 09/08/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I get it, but when it is time for serious total war the bombs will fall, whatever type and brand they happen to be. 

It is all speculation anyway, fun with mechas that don't exist.

I am more worried about directed energy weapons than I am Nukes.  Those things can be silent and violent from great distances and have pinpoint accuracy. 

If military powers ever start using those on a regular bases it is going to get really ugly.

And the thought of some group ramping up the output power on all the cell tower antenna around a country and the people will boil in their skin all across the nation. 

We already have more than enough nasty ways to kill off entire populations, nukes aren't even needed except as a big stick to carry around.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23626485 - 09/08/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)



a discussion of issues with the standard model of the sun.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23626528 - 09/08/16 05:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What secrets will we discover at the subatomic and subsubatomic(?) levels?
Are we destined to become Gods our is it forbidden?

Are these secrets related to other relativity scale phenomenon, like nuclear chemistry
and stars are?


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: Crumist]
    #23627660 - 09/09/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know what you mean by relativity scale phenomena.  Einstein's relativity is just mathematical mythology.  It has no bearing on or evidence of existence in nature. 

From an Aether physics perspective, atoms are just condensed aether.  Atoms are built around vortexes of energy, different perspectives provide different words and slightly different mechanisms, but in the end it all points to the same conclusion, all matter and energy are a byproduct of a sympathetic resonance through some medium, like the proposed aether.

Dr. Royal Raymond Rife was able to use technology derived from Tesla and John Keely and Steinmentz and JJ Thompson and many other names, who he actually depended on most I am not sure of.  But, what is certain is that he used electrically charged plasma tubes and hit them with varying types of longitudinal energy and created microscopes better than the electron microscope, he discovered how to cure cancer by resonating the cancer cells with energy from his plasma tubes, he discovered so much about medicine.  This was in the 1930's-50's

But, members of the American Medical Association attacked him constantly and eventually destroyed his laboratory and much of his research.  He was ruined in order to save the standard view of physics and medicine.  Whether that really points toward the desire to use oil and gas and coal and hydroelectric power instead of using Tesla's and his contemporaries free power is uncertain, but as more details about what this group of scientists and researchers were doing from the 1860's-1950's continues to surface it is suspicious that many of the same names, like Morgan and Rockefeller or men that can be linked to them or the Rothchilds or even other more obscure families keep popping up.

Essentially at this point, most of what we see in the medical journals is suspect.  Almost everything we see about astrophysics is mathematical mythology.  A few groups, Thunderbolts project, Plasma Universe, Magnetic Universe, Electric Universe, Sympathetic Vibratory Physics, Aether Universe proponents, cymatics, electrical geology, arc blast geology, Plasma Mythology are pushing to make other concepts known in the public view.  Some are trying to push through the peer review network hoping to get other scholars involved.

Most are using YouTube and blogs and conferences to get their message across.  Some, like Eric Dollard, only give presentations and do independent research.  Dollard only uses Ham Radio and Snail Mail to talk to people, he won't use the internet.  He even writes all his papers by hand, maybe using a typewriter at times, but since he usually ends up living out of his car keeping a typewriter is much more difficult than a pencil.  Dollard is another man with amazing potential that was attacked and shut down by groups that may have links back to the Navy and larger corporations.  He studied Tesla's work and brought most of it into reality at least briefly, explaining how it works and what we would need to do to implement it.

Daniel Winter is another man with some interesting research regarding the golden mean (phi) 1.618 or 1+- sqrt(5)/2 (which is also -0.618)  He has found that to achieve real bliss and healing the human brain wave series from Delta to Beta need to become in tune with the cascade of Shumman resonance frequencies, the brainwave frequencies falling into phase with (what winter calls Plank Length/Plank time ratio) at powers of the golden mean.  He has also tracked heart EKG's and shown how people have moments of bliss and how they connect with each other bioelectrically.

There is a lot work being done that doesn't get past the big government and big corporate and big media and big science gate keepers.

What will humanity become is going to depend on whether we can release ourselves from the dogmas that keep our minds and hearts and souls imprisoned.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23631110 - 09/09/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Omg, making a woman come..would be a true sign of the Sun..showing her Vagina so to speak..indeed it is a little game of tell and speak..or spot and tell..which in which the degrees are sacred..into out of the Quebec..letter Array!


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