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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: nothing exists]
    #23546803 - 08/16/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
our physical reality is measured on the smallest scales as electric charge.  everything is made of electric charge.  atoms are electric charges separated by Nothing. electricity itself does not exist physically.  electric charges are a shadow of their source energy. the spark of life interacts on the Nothing to create reality. in the strictest terms, there is only Nothing.

Nothing exists




correct.


Edited by akira_akuma (08/16/16 12:59 PM)


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23546831 - 08/16/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Neil Tyson has taken acid when he was younger. :lol:



I recall watching an interview of his in which he talked about it briefly. Forgive me but I'll try to dig it up later when it's not 4:50am and I'm not half asleep.

He's a brilliant man, I had the privilege of seeing him talk in Sydney a year or so ago, too.

Will check back into thread later. Posting now so I don't miss it because I've enjoyed most of what I've read.


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Offlinezzripz
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Posts: 8,292
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: nothing exists]
    #23548927 - 08/17/16 03:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
our physical reality is measured on the smallest scales as electric charge.  everything is made of electric charge.  atoms are electric charges separated by Nothing. electricity itself does not exist physically.  electric charges are a shadow of their source energy. the spark of life interacts on the Nothing to create reality. in the strictest terms, there is only Nothing.

Nothing exists




how did you come to that understanding?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: zzripz]
    #23550515 - 08/17/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

it's a reasonable projection that he has taken for his name, which doesn't make it right but not 100% wrong either.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: Into The Woods]
    #23551518 - 08/17/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
Neil Tyson has taken acid when he was younger. :lol:
[/image]






so? many have taken a trip with varying results. so i got a fact wrong, big deal.

i know he’s smart, i said i enjoy him too in the same post.(go back a page if you don't believe me). I was quite specific.

the point was about a view (1) that regards intelligence as the supreme accomplishment of man. and (2)
regards some superior intelligence as possibly the answer to all our problems.

the point was made that spiritual teachers all point out that the ’sacred’ is immanent, but we miss it because we don’t value it.

the market place gives money priority and scientists give knowledge and intelligence priority.

Jesus said to:
'first seek the kingdom of heaven within'
'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s'
etc
Buddha certainly put compassion before the pursuit of knowledge and cleverness for it’s own sake. And the heart sutra and buddhist teachings all point out that ‘enlightenment’ or whatever you want to call it is not an attainment, but is already an ever present truth, that we have ignored for so long, we have forgotten we’re ignoring it and are therefore suffering.
Other teachers same message,
Ramana Maharshi same message
Nisgradata Maharaj same message


I said nothing new here.

I used the sacredness of a flower as an example.
Apparently that was problematic, also.

but I said nothing new here.

2 different folks made these posts:

“I found it amusing how he speculated that higher intelligences may exist that already have surveyed earth and view us as we would to chimps and have concluded there is no intelligent life on earth.”

“I would be shocked if that hasn't happened. “

I simply pointed out that the above spiritual teachings, would indicate that if on the contrary a spiritually advanced being looked down on us they would not laugh and dismiss us anymore than we dismiss our ignorant children, on the contrary such a being would teach us. And that is exactly what all the above mentioned teachers did after awakening. And they all teach that the way to awaken is not through, money, intelligence, or power, or 'fixing' the external world. And they all teach it’s ok to help ‘fix the world’, but pointless if one doesn’t awaken first.

But don’t take my word for it, they all left teachings and writings that are readily available.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23552340 - 08/18/16 06:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The spiritually advanced sure didn't have much insight into the future or what harm their teachings would cause by fundamentalists.  The most bloody of wars have been fought over religions incepted by these holy mens' alleged "spiritual awareness."  For every 1 being who approximated anything of experiencing the ecstatic moment from such teachings, perhaps 10,000 or more have died from it? That's not statistical information, that's a guess, much like you did with Tyson.  I mean, if you're going to have such esoteric information, maybe you should keep it a secret rather than mainstream it.  From my PoV, it's only done more harm than good.  Higher intelligence could be indicative of such spiritual advancement, and maybe they'd know best and just stay the fuck out of it.

It doesn't seem like you can teach a pack of baboons to play nice with one another.  Most of the time, it doesn't seem like psychedelic users on a philosophy forum can play nice with one another.  :strokebeard:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23553134 - 08/18/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
The spiritually advanced sure didn't have much insight ...  I mean, if you're going to have such esoteric information, maybe you should keep it a secret rather than mainstream it.  From my PoV, it's only done more harm than good.  Higher intelligence could be indicative of such spiritual advancement, and maybe they'd know best and just stay the fuck out of it.





Apparently the meditative traditions have helped many. Now mindfulness meditation is medically documented:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mindfulness+meditation+is+medically+documented&t=hi&ia=web

As you pointed out, that many teachings eventually get turned into organized religions, that end up doing much harm, is an unfortunate historical fact. Various religions have had varying degrees of violence and conflict associated with them. Of the more well known religions the only ones I know of that have a spotless record, in this regard, are Taoism & Jainism, and that may only be due to my ignorance of the historical record.

As far as I know both Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi (whom I mentioned) would both be classified as in the Advaita Vedanta, or ‘non dualist’, type tradition. As far as I know those who studied with them, have been peaceful; but they both gave little in the way of any sort of theology. Whether this was simply because none is necessary, or because of their intelligent understanding of how such stuff leads to attaching to concepts, and often pointless arguments as well, I do not know. It retrospect it does seem wise.
Buddha made a point of not attaching to ‘views’, but as we know, once it became a religion hundreds of years later it morphed into many forms. In China it mixed with Taoism and became chan or Zen, in tibet it mixed with the local indigenous religion, called Bön, and became very elaborate. And this happened in spite of Buddhas efforts to keep it simple.
I don’t know, if knowing this, made both Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi terse, or if that was naturally their nature.         

The same has also happened in other fields. I can think of one example at the moment, as they say: 'Freud was not a Freudian'. He was investigating and learning and revising his theories to the end, but after he died they made a movement: 'Freudian psychoanalysis'.

I too have wondered about the connection between intelligence and spirituality. In some ways it seems that what is called 'enlightenment' or 'higher states of consciousness'  in some ways seems analogous to what athletes call: 'being in the zone'. As I understand it 'being in the zone', increases both one's performance, and one's enjoyment of whatever the activity in question is, but does not raise either a person's knowledge or intelligence.

My guess is that the hype that surrounds some yogic notions such as: "the akashic field", "psychic powers", & "knowledge of previous lives", etc., has lead some to a distorted view of what awakening is actually about.

But if we look at what folks are doing that are getting the medically documented benefits of meditation, it involves none of this hyped up stuff. It is much simpler. The benefits are more modest, but real.


Edited by laughingdog (08/18/16 12:54 PM)


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23553241 - 08/18/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:




Jesus said to:
'first seek the kingdom of heaven within'
'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s'
etc
Buddha certainly put compassion before the pursuit of knowledge and cleverness for it’s own sake. And the heart sutra and buddhist teachings all point out that ‘enlightenment’ or whatever you want to call it is not an attainment, but is already an ever present truth, that we have ignored for so long, we have forgotten we’re ignoring it and are therefore suffering.
Other teachers same message,
Ramana Maharshi same message
Nisgradata Maharaj same message


available.




Jesus never said first seek the kingdom of heaven within. This is what He actually said: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Ive been seeing this a lot lately new agers and spiritualists trying to make Jesus into a Buddhist. This is not correct. When reading that verse without the "within", it totally changes the meaning. He is saying seek God first for wisdom and righteousness, not yourself.

On one occasion Jesus said, “For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), where He was speaking of himself. When you are under His lordship, and when He is in control of your life, that is the kingdom of God. It is not rules and regulations, but “righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Romans 14:17) and certainly not in the sense that we are gods.


--------------------
Easily test the dosage of your tabs at home!:lsd:
qtests.org

Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."


Edited by Aiko Aiko (08/18/16 12:59 PM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23553258 - 08/18/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If I was to identify with a religion, I'd probably call myself a Taoist, because from my limited knowledge it seems to be the most peaceful and equitable religion out there.  We all know Buddhism has caused problems, but it approximates my second choice.....

One thing I've noticed about Freud is it seems he nailed the oral, anal, and moral aspects of just basic (non consciousness-expanded) terrestrial life.  What he missed was the rational!  I think it's because he took such a strong imprint on time binding, semantic, rational thought that he couldn't see himself.  It's way easier to see where other people are stuck than it is to turn the mirror in on yourself.  In that sense, I see Jung as having surpassed him, regarding post-terrestrial or expanded states of consciousness, experiencing synchronicity, though perhaps not having fully activated the heart chakra, to use Indian systems of psychology/spirituality. 

Well, it may be that intelligence needs to be redefined to include emotional well-being.  I saw some terrible reality TV show for a little while that tested child prodigies for like a $100k prize, and the way their parents treated them and the shame they felt from failure (they'd close in on them having a total emotional meltdown for millions of viewers) was pretty disgusting.

I think there is something to flow and expanded states of consciousness, I don't think it's necessarily all out enlightenment, but I think there is a release from the gravity of life, and it may have something to do with muscular tension and pack mentality, like Atlas bearing the world's weight on one's shoulders...  Surfers seem to have escaped this trap.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #23553269 - 08/18/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
Jesus never said first seek the kingdom of heaven within. This is what He actually said: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Ive been seeing this a lot lately new agers and spiritualists trying to make Jesus into a Buddhist. This is not correct. When reading that verse without the "within", it totally changes the meaning. He is saying seek God first for wisdom and righteousness, not yourself.

On one occasion Jesus said, “For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), where He was speaking of himself. When you are under His lordship, and when He is in control of your life, that is the kingdom of God. It is not rules and regulations, but “righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Romans 14:17).



when he says within you in that last quote, he means literally if the power of God is with you then it's also within you, as Jesus said in Thomas, "Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
and also  "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

ie, inside and outside....


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23553288 - 08/18/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
zero is a great postulate
you can use it in math
you must actually
therefore it exists,
and if it doesn't
neither do we



I was gonna say something but then I read this and :mindblown:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #23553318 - 08/18/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:




Jesus said to:
'first seek the kingdom of heaven within'
'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s'
etc
Buddha certainly put compassion before the pursuit of knowledge and cleverness for it’s own sake. And the heart sutra and buddhist teachings all point out that ‘enlightenment’ or whatever you want to call it is not an attainment, but is already an ever present truth, that we have ignored for so long, we have forgotten we’re ignoring it and are therefore suffering.
Other teachers same message,
Ramana Maharshi same message
Nisgradata Maharaj same message


available.




Jesus never said first seek the kingdom of heaven within. This is what He actually said: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Ive been seeing this a lot lately new agers and spiritualists trying to make Jesus into a Buddhist. This is not correct. When reading that verse without the "within", it totally changes the meaning. He is saying seek God first for wisdom and righteousness, not yourself.
...




indeed it is perhaps usually dangerous to quote Jesus as folks carry so much emotional baggage, in this regard, especially in the USA.
Your correction makes absolutely no difference to the main points of the post. Chill out dude. I am not one of the people with an agenda that upsets you. Jesus was one of four teachers mentioned. There are many others. I have no interest in Christian doctrine. If you can't see past your emotional triggers, you will remain susceptible to being randomly triggered with it's associated stress.

Eckhart Tolle, another spiritual teaher, goes into detail about the quote in one of his videos. You might find it interesting. Incidentally what we have are translations, none of which are perfect.

I have edited my post, to include more data on Advaita Vedanta which I find far more interesting than Christian doctrine. I also find Buddhism far more interesting than Christian doctrine, and don't think it needs any support from Jesus who came 500 years later. Likewise those who actually practice the christian meditative tradition such as Trappist monks, need no justification from Buddha, in my opinion.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23553394 - 08/18/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Further more if Jesus actually existed he was a Jew (not a Christian) and circumcised and most probably not with perfectly straight hair or extremely white skinned.

Buddha seems to have left many more teachings, by several scales of magnitude, but again we have no absolute proof of his existence.

Like wise Lau Tzu is an enigma.

But  both Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi  lived recently.

Since both Jesus and Buddha have unknown actuality, in my opinion, to have an agenda, as to how they relate, or who needed whom, would seem to be pure folly.

When it comes to the medically documented benefits of meditation, and on going MRI research, and other such studies we find ourselves on more meaningful ground imo.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23553509 - 08/18/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing cannot exist except as a mathematical concept. I think such a vacuum would spark (did spark) the creation of something (the universe).


There was actually a highly publicized debate on the nature of nothing hosted by Neil DeGrasse over if nothing could in fact, contradictory to its name, exist.




I think 'nothing' arose as an obvious concept back when 'nothing' was believed to have been observed.

However, much later and quite recently (within the past 100 years or so) its been discovered that we cannot create nor observe an absolute 'nothing'. there was in fact something there and nothing ever really becomes nothing, rather it changes form or becomes apart of many different orders.
zero isn't an actuality its simply a useful tool.

Lawrence Krauss argues that because we have numbers that are so close to zero in some vacuums, that we may as well call them zero and nothing can exist.

Obviously this point is flawed as was pointed out by many participating in the debate that something is still there, and that there are things which cannot even be measured in the normal sense such as Higgs-fields, fabric of space-time, dark energy and matter.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: hTx]
    #23553611 - 08/18/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

And of course, unless string theory turns out to be true, one has the quantum fluctuations (aka "quantum foam") at the Planck scale, in which, at a fundamental level, the vacuum of space is actually teeming with robust activity.  So even if nothing could exist in vacuum, for this reason and others it truly does not.  As hTx points out, zero is an idealized mathematical concept and appears not to be possible in physical terms -- at least in any framework one could point to.  I suppose one could, however, posit an infinite nothing -- the sum total of all that doesn't exist.  Whether that has any meaning is doubtful.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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