Home | Community | Message Board

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisibleconnectedcosmos
Neti Neti
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
Can nothing exist?
    #23535328 - 08/12/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Can nothing exist? I personally dont think there could be nothing because "to be" is to exist and that means there can't be no thing for if there was no thing that's At least something? Idk I'm looping on this thought can someone else elaborate? ? Lol it's like space itself is an illusion right?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23535379 - 08/12/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Here's something I wrote years ago on this subject:

Quote:

I shall now demonstrate that nothing cannot exist. Before you get any silly ideas about immortality, I should like to remind you of Uncle Bill's charming admonition:

"Forever is a time word. Time is that which ends."

Let us begin:

Nothing (as we normally conceive of it) cannot exist, as far as language (i.e. any extant human method) can demonstrate. Nothing is something, by definition. If we want to violate this definition and say that nothing is not something, it can't be nothing, either, because the word "nothing" is a referent to some thing -- something -- and the afferent cannot very well be the absence of something, which, as I have demonstrated, would not be nothing. So, nothing (as we unusually conceive of it) exists. In the absence of nothing (or, if you want, the presence of nothing in the classical terminology), there is no existence.... so there is not nothing (or, if you want, not not nothing), because to have nothing would mean that you have observed it... which is clearly impossible.

Abracadabra



http://archive.dividedquantum.info/




--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #23535485 - 08/12/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

zero is a great postulate
you can use it in math
you must actually
therefore it exists,
and if it doesn't
neither do we


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleconnectedcosmos
Neti Neti
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23535671 - 08/12/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Holy shit you blew my mind with that!! 
So in a nutshell nothing exists? But only if we violate our human understanding of existence of nothing and something?
Did you write that yourself divided quantum?  ?

Still kinda confused lol ineffable man ...ineffable


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23535729 - 08/12/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
? Lol it's like space itself is an illusion right?




Well according to Einstein space and time are interrelated, so physicists call it "space time".

On a simple level space is not an illusion, because it is what makes our everyday world 3 dimensional, no more, no less, exactly 3 directions at right angles to one another.

Space certainly seems intangible, but another evidence of it's structure
are the 17 wallpaper symmetry groups. If you have ever enjoyed M.C. Escher's lithographs and wondered how he made those patterns, and what are the rules, the rules are those of 2 dimensional symmetry.

Possible 3 dimensional symmetry patterns are way more complicated, but used by chemists who explore crystal structures. Again space actually seems to have an invisible structure, that limits rules for possible arrangements.

You can websearch this stuff and find good articles on wikipeadia.

As regards nothing I have nothing to say.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23535783 - 08/12/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Did you write that yourself divided quantum?  ?





yeah


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetump
ban the undead
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23537038 - 08/13/16 04:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Of course nothing can exist. Just hard to measure. Think of concept of a void ship


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: tump]
    #23537080 - 08/13/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

'no-thing' means really no 'thing'. What do we think of as 'things'. Is that tree over there a 'thing'? Is it 'stuff'. OR is it rather patterning, active intelligence dynamically interrelated with the whole universe?

'thing' 'nothing'. The mindset drilled with dualistic thinking says (no offense), asks 'can nothing exist' not realizing that the term is an abstraction from a dynamic (?) which is both nothing and thing. you cannot have one without the other. If say you call space nothing, understand that we cannot observe an/or feel, and/or understand form without 'it'

When we take psychedelics often we become aware of the dynamic between what we call 'nothing/space' (which also of course can include psychological space) and forms. Many artists can also


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #23538017 - 08/13/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Can nothing exist? I personally dont think there could be nothing because "to be" is to exist and that means there can't be no thing for if there was no thing that's At least something? Idk I'm looping on this thought can someone else elaborate? ? Lol it's like space itself is an illusion right?




I think language is hypnotizing. It seems like you can make sense out of nonsense.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23538028 - 08/13/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Chaos likes to be orderly in some ways.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: zzripz]
    #23539233 - 08/13/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
'no-thing' means really no 'thing'. What do we think of as 'things'. Is that tree over there a 'thing'? Is it 'stuff'. OR is it rather patterning, active intelligence dynamically interrelated with the whole universe?

'thing' 'nothing'. The mindset drilled with dualistic thinking says (no offense), asks 'can nothing exist' not realizing that the term is an abstraction from a dynamic (?) which is both nothing and thing. you cannot have one without the other. If say you call space nothing, understand that we cannot observe an/or feel, and/or understand form without 'it'
...




seems like your turn to talk Buddhist dharma

from the The Heart Sutra

"O Sariputra! Form does not differ from the void, and the void does not differ from the form. Form is the void, and the void is form." ....

or


..."form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form ;
emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form,"...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23539887 - 08/14/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

from the The Heart Sutra

..."form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form ;
emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form,"...




ideas are mind forms
emptiness is a mind form
any idea is not more nor less than emptiness
including the lack of any idea

for the mind is a universe supporting ideas or forms - they are the media of mind

this does not mean that each form is lacking in individuality, but each is of the same essence as emptiness


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23539896 - 08/14/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Chaos likes to be orderly in some ways.




I prefer E-Prime.  Chaos appears to like order in some ways to DQ.  I still don't know what that means, but it gives it at least some reference point, and knocks out the "to be" or "is" factor to the statement.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23539899 - 08/14/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

chaos and order are temporary properties in the overall process

hopefully it is a peace loving process


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23539909 - 08/14/16 06:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I would say something more along the lines of "Maybe chaos and order are temporary properties in the overall process."  Where do all these strong assertions about abstract ideas come from?


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23539913 - 08/14/16 06:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
I would say something more along the lines of "Maybe chaos and order are temporary properties in the overall process."  Where do all these strong assertions about abstract ideas come from?



I am pointing at ideas that I see in my mind, echoing after reading the posts that come before.
I guess they come from the emptiness that preceded them, or maybe synchronicity.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23540180 - 08/14/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

How about: As a general rule, chaos flows into orderly states in some situations and under certain conditions.

Imo, it seems hard to deny that both chaotic and orderly components appear together in the surroundings we find ourselves in.  They seem to work in synergy.


Edited by DividedQuantum (08/14/16 09:09 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleconnectedcosmos
Neti Neti
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23540379 - 08/14/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's like duality is in everything, chaos order light dark day night happy sad if tere wasn't one there wouldn't be the other?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Cheshire Cat
Tea For Everyone!
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/16
Posts: 261
Loc: United States Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 15 days
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23540400 - 08/14/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------


"It's Hip to be square" -Huey Lewis
"All war is based on deception" -Sun Tzu


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Can nothing exist? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23540502 - 08/14/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
How about: As a general rule, chaos flows into orderly states in some situations and under certain conditions.

Imo, it seems hard to deny that both chaotic and orderly components appear together in the surroundings we find ourselves in.  They seem to work in synergy.




It seemed to me like the whole idea behind science regards universal laws that never change?  Rather, our paradigms change as we become more lucid of the  cosmos...  What is the source of chaos?  Self-awareness?  The fact that conscious beings apprehend the universe non-simultaneously?  It takes time for what we are, which is essentially a chaotic system, to approximate an understanding of order.  Progress is often slow, other times we make quantum leaps.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Trendal's Unified Theory of Existence
( 1 2 all )
trendalM 3,007 36 07/28/05 09:53 PM
by Silversoul
* I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Anonymous 12,846 109 02/13/04 11:28 PM
by SpecialEd
* it seems therefore, that God does not exist. whiterastahippie 1,788 12 11/11/11 02:01 AM
by thefloodbehind
* *cough* EXISTENCE *hack*
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
buttonion 21,438 173 03/19/04 12:03 AM
by Frog
* There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Dogomush 9,420 141 09/07/09 10:46 AM
by sandman3698
* Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? psyka 784 10 10/01/05 12:06 PM
by IgnatiusJReilly
* How would one go about testing the Intelligent Design Theory?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
dr0mni 11,879 103 05/17/09 02:49 AM
by Darwinian
* Explaining why life after death exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
dumlovesyou 7,328 92 04/05/03 12:36 PM
by buttonion

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,516 topic views. 0 members, 10 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.