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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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The Law of Attraction
    #23535277 - 08/12/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Remember the next time you are raped, robbed, betrayed or get ill - that this is what your thoughts were focusing on - and you totally deserve it!

:nicetry:


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23535418 - 08/12/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So whenever I masturbate, the universe wanted to fuck me?

:badsurprise:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: Khancious]
    #23535476 - 08/12/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

those ideas suck


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23535604 - 08/12/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

"The Law of Attraction"

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Remember the next time you are raped, robbed, betrayed or get ill - that this is what your thoughts were focusing on - and you totally deserve it!




:horrified:

Can someone give another perspective on TLOA, please?!


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23535627 - 08/12/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Remember the next time you are raped, robbed, betrayed or get ill - that this is what your thoughts were focusing on - and you totally deserve it!

:nicetry:




And referring back to my "Desire" thread questions, where do these sort of thoughts/desires arise from?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23535739 - 08/12/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why The Law Of Attraction Creates Suffering



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542366 - 08/14/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You've totally missed the point.  In my experience, this concept is is very true.

When I'm depressed, anxious, angry, and addicted, people don't want to be around me.

When I'm at peace, exuding caring and compassion, people are lined up to be with me.

At an event today, I had a half dozen women wanting to spend time with me.

10 years ago, depressed and addicted, no woman would give me the time of day.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542383 - 08/14/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I had a buddy who was built like a god: 6' 5", 275 lbs and handsome. Women swooned over him whether he was angry or sad or whatever. Same with the hot pissy, female models I knew.

I was in no special mind-state when I attracted the 22 year younger Haley.

The LOA is ALWAYS applied ad hoc and negative results such as rape and robbery somehow don't apply for some strange reason even though such events fall under the basic supposition as outlined by claimants.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542410 - 08/14/16 10:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Re: RJT  I think you have confused the "law of attraction" with having a positive vibe.

I think "the law of attraction", refers to a specific book, movie, and idea, that if you, say for example: want a house and think thoughts of having a house, you will get a house. I knew somebody that thought that was what it meant. I was never interested enough to pursue it, probably for similar reasons explained in the video.

Thus it goes way beyond the idea that having positive expectations, maybe a sort of self full filling prophecy, to say instead, that 'you can control reality to get what you want'.

But perhaps different people have different interpretations of what they are sure it means.


Edited by laughingdog (08/14/16 10:27 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23542413 - 08/14/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can say the same about rich men attracting women, but that misses the point.

The maxim is, "like attracts like"

When we are bitter and angry, we attract bitter angry people.

When we are positive and caring, we attract positive caring people.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23542418 - 08/14/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

Re: RJT  I think you have confused the "law of attraction" with having a positive vibe.





The maxim is, "like attracts like"

It has to do with any mental state.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542446 - 08/14/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do buyers attract buyers or do they attract sellers?

Do prey attract prey or do they attract predators?

Dominant people generally attract passive people.

Straight women generally attract straight men.

Doesn't seem like like-like.


I suppose you could limit your premise down so narrowly as to make it "true", but then it is not a universal principle.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542453 - 08/14/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I can come up with a million exceptions to this idea.

I notice oftentimes overly aggressive people attract overly submissive compliant people.

I didn't coin the term. I'm simply saying there are a zillion cases where it's true.

I did not claim this or any principal is "universal". Is there such a thing?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542458 - 08/14/16 10:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So the principle works except when it does not?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542475 - 08/14/16 11:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The idea specifically has to do with cognitive energy. That like energy attracts like energy.

When you're angry, do you seek someone who is happy and at peace? Unwilling to be sucked into your crap?

Of course not. You look for someone who will sync with your negative energy.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542480 - 08/14/16 11:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

When I am angry I search for a hapless victim to vent upon. :evil:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542547 - 08/14/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I did not claim this or any principal is "universal". Is there such a thing?



I certainly don't think there is. And the more miraculous and wonderful events seem to me those that always avoid definition.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23542583 - 08/14/16 11:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I went for a walk today and found a penny!

:bearbreakdance:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542617 - 08/15/16 12:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

When I am angry I search for a hapless victim to vent upon. :evil:




Exactly.

You'd never vent to someone who promoted the positive aspects of the person you were mad at.

When we're angry, we desire to vent to people who support our anger.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23542638 - 08/15/16 12:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why would I? They are bigger than me!

And how does that support "like attracts like"?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542668 - 08/15/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

And how does that support "like attracts like"?





Anger attracts those who support and cultivate anger.

When we're angry, we desire to vent to people who support our anger.


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23546493 - 08/16/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Why The Law Of Attraction Creates Suffering






Could it be the hang up with LOA is the word law? Does this "law" apply continuously?

I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not.

Although, I think there's nothing faulty with having a desire for something, but to hold or attach to the desire will surely lead to suffering, especially if the desire goes unfulfilled.

Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?

Also, could it be we were meant to suffer to various degrees for purposes known and unknown? Is this not what we call "life"? Though I don't always understand it or like it, life seems like --- it's just the way it's supposed to be --- much like a dream or an illusion.


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Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23551066 - 08/17/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PaulyAnna said:

Could it be the hang up with LOA is the word law? Does this "law" apply continuously?

I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not.

Although, I think there's nothing faulty with having a desire for something, but to hold or attach to the desire will surely lead to suffering, especially if the desire goes unfulfilled.

Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?

Also, could it be we were meant to suffer to various degrees for purposes known and unknown? Is this not what we call "life"? Though I don't always understand it or like it, life seems like --- it's just the way it's supposed to be --- much like a dream or an illusion.






“Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”

1) ‘can we live in the moment?’
Well many of us do a lot of thinking throughout the day.
By contrast if one does Tai chi chuan, or gives a massage, one focuses ones attention on moment to moment kinesthetic sensation. This is just an example. Kinesthetic sensation is of course totally present time, whereas thought is often or usually about the past or future, and thus distracts one from being fully in the moment. Hence monks do simple jobs, (sweeping washing dishes etc) and use them as an opportunity to practice mindfulness.
So the answer would be it is a skill that we can improve with practice.

2) “can one … but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”

Seems like a big topic…where to start?
I have a book by Ajhan Sumedho titled  “Don’t Take your Life Personally”. I suppose many would take offense at this idea, but others would find it appealing So I guess the answer to the question is: if the teachings that underlie this view of the world (the 4 noble truths sort of thing, etc) resonate with one, then one can attempt to live accordingly, and pay attention to whether or not this approach reduces suffering,
and if so how one might continually learn to be more mindful.

3) as regards suffering and ‘what is meant to be’ etc. A sensible approach would seem to be, to not purposely cause oneself suffering (as some christians have been know to do (hair shirts, flagellation etc.). But when there is suffering, work with it, and the 1st, of the, 4 noble truths, points out that there is already plenty of it. (“Living beings are born and die continually. Sensations appear and disappear perpetually. Thoughts arise and recede unremittingly. Objects also take form and disintegrate. Desires wax and wane. Feelings are also changeable and fleeting.” )

‘Suffering’ is an english translation from an ancient text, related concepts are ‘unsatisfactoriness’ & ‘stressfulness’. The teaching is not that happiness or pleasure are bad, but more like the idea that pursuing them with selfish tenacity generally doesn’t work long term.

How do we work with suffering?

suppose for example one has a pain, perhaps a headache, or you are in the woods and twist your ankle, or it is emotional pain and your child has died.

But really there is no ‘one solid unchanging pain’, but we label it as such, and then resist the label and tense up from resisting. They say that, when on the contrary, we allow ourselves to experience so called pain we may discover, all kinds of changing sensations, throbbing, stabbing, vibrations, heat, pressure, and changing locations; they say that being willing to experience it intimately actually allows it to dissolve and that the suffering is reduced, and that it is a learned skill, and one can’t start with a broken leg and expect it to work instantly, if one hasn’t done a lot of practice.

3) as regards ‘what is meant to be’, I think, as many teachers do, that the above ideas give anyone enough to work with, without insisting  that all speculations be answered, especially ones that have nothing to do with reducing suffering.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23551703 - 08/17/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

“Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”





I think it's possible.

The past and the future will be be thoughts that pop up.

But we can see them for what they are. Figments of our imagination.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23554421 - 08/18/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PaulyAnna said:

... I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not ...






You seem to be attempting to sort out if peace or wishing to be loved, and being loving is our primary motivator. I haven’t watched the video in awhile.
But as you point out the need to be loved involves longing and dependence. Longing is a form of suffering. Dependence is a form of insecurity.
Whereas if eventually meditation leads to peace aka contentment aka equanimity becoming an abiding state then there is no more emotional suffering.

And of course whatever the external circumstances tend to be that make us believe we are loved, when we are alone for long periods, they are likely to be absent. Which if we are dependent on them will leave us then unhappy.

I imagine these factors inform N.E’s logic.


Edited by laughingdog (08/18/16 06:56 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23564803 - 08/22/16 01:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
But as you point out the need to be loved involves longing and dependence. Longing is a form of suffering. Dependence is a form of insecurity.





"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."

Psalm 23


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