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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23542668 - 08/15/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

And how does that support "like attracts like"?





Anger attracts those who support and cultivate anger.

When we're angry, we desire to vent to people who support our anger.


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23546493 - 08/16/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Why The Law Of Attraction Creates Suffering






Could it be the hang up with LOA is the word law? Does this "law" apply continuously?

I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not.

Although, I think there's nothing faulty with having a desire for something, but to hold or attach to the desire will surely lead to suffering, especially if the desire goes unfulfilled.

Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?

Also, could it be we were meant to suffer to various degrees for purposes known and unknown? Is this not what we call "life"? Though I don't always understand it or like it, life seems like --- it's just the way it's supposed to be --- much like a dream or an illusion.


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23551066 - 08/17/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PaulyAnna said:

Could it be the hang up with LOA is the word law? Does this "law" apply continuously?

I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not.

Although, I think there's nothing faulty with having a desire for something, but to hold or attach to the desire will surely lead to suffering, especially if the desire goes unfulfilled.

Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?

Also, could it be we were meant to suffer to various degrees for purposes known and unknown? Is this not what we call "life"? Though I don't always understand it or like it, life seems like --- it's just the way it's supposed to be --- much like a dream or an illusion.






“Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”

1) ‘can we live in the moment?’
Well many of us do a lot of thinking throughout the day.
By contrast if one does Tai chi chuan, or gives a massage, one focuses ones attention on moment to moment kinesthetic sensation. This is just an example. Kinesthetic sensation is of course totally present time, whereas thought is often or usually about the past or future, and thus distracts one from being fully in the moment. Hence monks do simple jobs, (sweeping washing dishes etc) and use them as an opportunity to practice mindfulness.
So the answer would be it is a skill that we can improve with practice.

2) “can one … but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”

Seems like a big topic…where to start?
I have a book by Ajhan Sumedho titled  “Don’t Take your Life Personally”. I suppose many would take offense at this idea, but others would find it appealing So I guess the answer to the question is: if the teachings that underlie this view of the world (the 4 noble truths sort of thing, etc) resonate with one, then one can attempt to live accordingly, and pay attention to whether or not this approach reduces suffering,
and if so how one might continually learn to be more mindful.

3) as regards suffering and ‘what is meant to be’ etc. A sensible approach would seem to be, to not purposely cause oneself suffering (as some christians have been know to do (hair shirts, flagellation etc.). But when there is suffering, work with it, and the 1st, of the, 4 noble truths, points out that there is already plenty of it. (“Living beings are born and die continually. Sensations appear and disappear perpetually. Thoughts arise and recede unremittingly. Objects also take form and disintegrate. Desires wax and wane. Feelings are also changeable and fleeting.” )

‘Suffering’ is an english translation from an ancient text, related concepts are ‘unsatisfactoriness’ & ‘stressfulness’. The teaching is not that happiness or pleasure are bad, but more like the idea that pursuing them with selfish tenacity generally doesn’t work long term.

How do we work with suffering?

suppose for example one has a pain, perhaps a headache, or you are in the woods and twist your ankle, or it is emotional pain and your child has died.

But really there is no ‘one solid unchanging pain’, but we label it as such, and then resist the label and tense up from resisting. They say that, when on the contrary, we allow ourselves to experience so called pain we may discover, all kinds of changing sensations, throbbing, stabbing, vibrations, heat, pressure, and changing locations; they say that being willing to experience it intimately actually allows it to dissolve and that the suffering is reduced, and that it is a learned skill, and one can’t start with a broken leg and expect it to work instantly, if one hasn’t done a lot of practice.

3) as regards ‘what is meant to be’, I think, as many teachers do, that the above ideas give anyone enough to work with, without insisting  that all speculations be answered, especially ones that have nothing to do with reducing suffering.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23551703 - 08/17/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

“Which leads me to ask: can we live in the moment, but have desires, remain unattached to them, and avoid suffering by being content, whether those desires are fulfilled or not?”





I think it's possible.

The past and the future will be be thoughts that pop up.

But we can see them for what they are. Figments of our imagination.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23554421 - 08/18/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PaulyAnna said:

... I disagree that we are primarily looking to experience peace in our lives. Imo, we are longing to be accepted for who we are and to be loved unconditionally as such. Secondly, then to return like to others because they are me. But I perceive all this begins with completely loving ourself, the rest will follow.

Peace comes from contentment; being aware of our surroundings and living in the moment just as it is whether we have what we desire or not ...






You seem to be attempting to sort out if peace or wishing to be loved, and being loving is our primary motivator. I haven’t watched the video in awhile.
But as you point out the need to be loved involves longing and dependence. Longing is a form of suffering. Dependence is a form of insecurity.
Whereas if eventually meditation leads to peace aka contentment aka equanimity becoming an abiding state then there is no more emotional suffering.

And of course whatever the external circumstances tend to be that make us believe we are loved, when we are alone for long periods, they are likely to be absent. Which if we are dependent on them will leave us then unhappy.

I imagine these factors inform N.E’s logic.


Edited by laughingdog (08/18/16 06:56 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: The Law of Attraction [Re: laughingdog]
    #23564803 - 08/22/16 01:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
But as you point out the need to be loved involves longing and dependence. Longing is a form of suffering. Dependence is a form of insecurity.





"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."

Psalm 23


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