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Offlinespor_88
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Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods.
    #23533591 - 08/12/16 03:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hi Guys,

I'm unsure if this is the correct area of the forum to post this, so please feel free to move if necessary.

I have read through a lot of older posts, and I haven't been able to get any concrete answers.  Basically, I want to know what would be the most efficient way of preserving potency (particularly in relation to P. Semilanceata - RIP 5 ounce over 2 years :frown: ).  Hopefully, if all of the relevant information can be contained in a single thread, it will save people a lot of time sifting through older posts - and, for my own greedy agenda; hopefully, I can save my little fungal buddies from the embarrassment of the slow onset of impotence that comes with old age.

So far, it seems like subjecting the fruit to a period of fan drying, before extracting any remaining moisture using a food dehydrator (set to a temperature of around 35°C/95°F) to achieve a state of "cracker dry" is paramount to their longevity.  I assume this is more efficient, and more hassle-free, than using a desiccant chamber, and therefor justifies the extra cash spent on purchasing a food dehydrator.  I don't want to spark another desiccant vs dehydrator debate - so unless someone has a really good reason not to, then I think I'll fork out the cash for this.

The part that I can't seem to find a definitive answer on is the storage of dried mushrooms.  There seems to be many different ways to do this.  So maybe someone with more experience can help here.  So far, I've read about vacuum sealers, freezing, vacuum containers, zip-lock bags and just straight up air-tight mason jars in a cool, dark place.

To me, it seems like the most efficient way would be to vacuum-seal small quantities, then store in small air-tight mason jars, with a desiccant packet or two.  (Also, a quick question on this... where would the desiccant packet be placed?  In the vacuum sealed bag with the mushrooms, or just in the mason jar?)

Others have said, that a vacuum sealer is unnecessary, and that putting the mushrooms in a couple of zip-lock bags, removing as much air as possible before closing , and then into a mason jar is sufficient. 

It seems like the first method would be more efficient - but by how much? 
Would it warrant the money spent on getting a vacuum sealer, or would the shelf-life be pretty similar?
Is freezing wise?  Would this be better than the other methods, or is it over-kill/risky?
How long is it possible to preserve mushrooms (esp. liberty caps, since they are purely psilocybin, which is more stable)?

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if it's a long read, but I wanted to include everything.


Edited by spor_88 (08/12/16 03:30 AM)


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: spor_88]
    #23533865 - 08/12/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Fan drying sucks balls and it's completely unneccesary and even pointless to do if you have a dehydrator. Harvest shrooms, fill dehydrator, turn the knob to highest heat setting, wait. Once cracker dry, seal in an airtight container or vacuum bag.

The key to preserving potency is fast drying. Wet shrooms lose potency quick, I've had good PE lose potency almost completely after spending a week damp. Heat will not damage the actives in case you were worrying about that, on the contrary, it helps. When your shrooms reach a certain temperature, the enzymes that break down the mushroom and the actives with it will stop working. That and the fact that nothing gets it done faster than a dehydrator makes it the best thing to use.

PS. I just skimmed your first few sentences.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: spor_88]
    #23533899 - 08/12/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spor_88 said:
To me, it seems like the most efficient way would be to vacuum-seal small quantities, then store in small air-tight mason jars, with a desiccant packet or two.  (Also, a quick question on this... where would the desiccant packet be placed?  In the vacuum sealed bag with the mushrooms, or just in the mason jar?)

...

How long is it possible to preserve mushrooms (esp. liberty caps, since they are purely psilocybin, which is more stable)?





To the first point,

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
I would advise against homemade desiccant packets. Its not necessary to include them at all, even store bought ones. Once you get them cracker dry, they will stay that way in a sealed container.




To the second point, years; though it remains unclear how many years, precisely.

Also, what do you mean "esp. liberty caps, since they are purely psilocybin, which is more stable"? Where did you come by this information?


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: h0ldthedoor]
    #23534445 - 08/12/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well psilocybin is more stable, and we have general ideas of some of the ratios of different species of mushrooms and their actives but.. I mean... :shrug:


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: h0ldthedoor] * 1
    #23534476 - 08/12/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Mason jars are airtight. Putting shrooms in a plastic bag inside that is pointless.
Just use a jar and throw a desiccant packet it there. It's not necessary if they are truly cracker dry, but if you use a container that you open and close multiple times, the ambient air getting in will introduce moisture that the shrooms will absorb.
You can't really fit a pound in a jar though...


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23534498 - 08/12/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've been able to maintain potency in the freezer in ziploc bags for about a year. Haven't stored them past that so I dunno how much longer they could go though. The freezer seems to keep them from absorbing water in the bag. I've lost major potency in just ziploc after 3-6 months without a freezer.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: themadextractor]
    #23534510 - 08/12/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You could just use something actually airtight and they'd benefit from that a lot more than the freezer in a bag that can breath through tiny holes.  Having put a lot of liquids in ziplock freezer bags, I don't trust their seal at all, ever.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: themadextractor]
    #23534517 - 08/12/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I like making chocolates and keeping them in the fridge. Should have about the same effect as a freezer.

I use freezer bags and store at room temp. Not longer than 2 months though.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #23534530 - 08/12/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

In that case the chocolate is protecting from most of the chemical changes though.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23534689 - 08/12/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I also like chocolate for dosing and preservation.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23535146 - 08/12/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Basically all the ways a noob comes up with to dry shrooms or protect potency are the absolute wrong ways to go about it.

While drying with plenty of heat in a food dehydrator on max or boiling your shrooms into tea works best


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23535232 - 08/12/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Cracker dry, in a mason jar with desiccant or oxy absorber put in the fridge. Still perfect after yr and a half. With no (noticeable) potency lose.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: tommyg57]
    #23535276 - 08/12/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why in the fridge just in a dark cool cupboard, I wouldn't store my dried shrooms in the fridge but I guess its preference based decision


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23535304 - 08/12/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Cracker dry. Mason jar no desiccant. Room temperature. Potency retains a year too


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23535322 - 08/12/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Cracker dry. Mason jar no desiccant. Room temperature. Potency retains a year too



How I always do it in a special vacuumed sealed tub


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23537324 - 08/13/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I ain't got enough mason jars :rofl: I use vacuum bags but it always sucks when they fail and you notice a few weeks after. Constantly have to throw away entire batches of shrooms.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23537415 - 08/13/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
I ain't got enough mason jars :rofl: I use vacuum bags but it always sucks when they fail and you notice a few weeks after. Constantly have to throw away entire batches of shrooms.




What I use as you close the lid it pushes out the air you have to release the vacuum by pressing the big button before it opens


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23537435 - 08/13/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That sucks for storing a larger quantity though. I buy these airtight "thermos" containers from time to time but at 10euro for a 5L container, it's not practical either. Vacuum bags are the tits for low cost storage but they tend to fail after a while.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23537467 - 08/13/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I bought a small one to test how good it is for now its plenty big enough but going on to APE grow next and mono tub or trays in sgfc not sure yet either way I'll need more a or a bigger one


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23537504 - 08/13/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I like this container I was talking about because it comes with a tray that is meant to keep your fruits from the bottom so they won't be sitting in water. I use it to throw indicative silica down there and then my shrooms on the tray.



Bulky and expensive though, I've been thinking of trying to find a better quality vacuum bag. Maybe the one I'm using now simply sucks. That would be fortunate :lol: I've thrown away as many shrooms as I have currently stored probably.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23537582 - 08/13/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah that's cool
What about those ones you use a hoover to suck the air out used for clothes storage? Obviously only for major bulk quantities I've no idea how good the actual vacuum hold is tbh


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23537707 - 08/13/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That would swallow my shrooms :rofl: No I mean a regular food vacuum bag, but maybe better quality. I got these bags from the EU equivalent of walmart, if I had to guess.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23537898 - 08/13/16 12:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You throw away mushrooms instead of re-drying them?


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23537950 - 08/13/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If I live in a dry climate so it shouldn't matter if they get exposed to air here and there, right? I've never noticed the fruits regaining any amount of moisture from whatever humidity is in the air.

Maybe it's just really humid where your at?

And while i'm asking dumb questions, how bad is it for the dried shrooms to sit in a ziploc if my air is dry enough?  Will the small amount of air coming in degrade the potency at a faster rate than if I were using food sealer bags??

And how bad is it to leave them out in open air (no bag) for say a day or so?


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Edited by tombosley8 (08/13/16 01:12 PM)


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: tombosley8]
    #23537953 - 08/13/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If it's not moisturizing them then the air isn't a problem..

Almost none of the things you're mentioning will have any noticeable effect on anything.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23537964 - 08/13/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Depends on if I get them early. If they get damp, they are gone after ~2weeks in this humidity. Sometimes I get failed bags where the shrooms on the inside are still cracker dry and the ones on the edges are rubbery/semi-cracker so those I redry and test them again. If the shrooms are all rubbery throughout the bag, I won't even bother. They are usually too far gone in that case to be worth the space they take, probably sat for weeks before I noticed them.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23537973 - 08/13/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:rockon:
thanks:headbang:


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: tombosley8]
    #23538020 - 08/13/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I had mushrooms that sat in open air for like a year, and I gave them to somebody and he said they worked.  Granted, he had to eat like 4-5g to feel anything but I mean..

I didn't even like the dude I gave em to, was honestly hoping he might experience disappointment. :lol:


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23538026 - 08/13/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I toss rubber shrooms too. If for some reason they got flexy again they're going into tea or the trash. It's too easy to make more


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23538036 - 08/13/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:  Some of you tossing mushrooms that are no different from the mushrooms ignorant people keep around regularly.  I get it, we're better than that, still funny though.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23538059 - 08/13/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

My first ever PE lost almost all their potency in a week. I only fan dried them though, which is fucking hilarious in hind sight seeing as it's almost always above 90% humidity here in summer, day or night. I was crushed.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23542862 - 08/15/16 03:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks to everyone that replied.

I know that putting vacuum-sealed bags inside of a mason jar seems like overkill, but that would prevent new air from being introduced to my shrooms each and every time I opened to mason jar, and I could just open one of the bags whenever I wanted a dose.

I just want to know if anyone has tried storing mushrooms both with, and without vacuum sealed bags, and how much of a difference there was before potency started to decrease? 

Quote:

mrmazdarx9 said:
Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
I ain't got enough mason jars :rofl: I use vacuum bags but it always sucks when they fail and you notice a few weeks after. Constantly have to throw away entire batches of shrooms.




What I use as you close the lid it pushes out the air you have to release the vacuum by pressing the big button before it opens




This looks interesting, how long have you stored dried mushrooms in one of these?  What volume of shrooms does it hold?


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: spor_88]
    #23543540 - 08/15/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Those are the same as jars. They don't actually create a vacuum until you try to pull the top off without hitting the button.
They have them in all sorts of sizes though. I'd get the fattest one I could find if I wanted to use those.

You really can't use jars when you are growing pounds though.
For a couple ounces though, jars are the best.


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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: GreenRabbit] * 1
    #23543557 - 08/15/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The fancier the method you have to store is inversely proportional to how well you grow


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23555477 - 08/18/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've had great success drying with a food dehydrator, vacuum sealing, and storing in a cool, dry, and dark place.  I've eaten boomers over a year old that still kick like a sensei from my vac bags.  Although, kind of spendy, definitely worth the investment.  Growing is hard work, so make them last.  I use my dehydrator and vacuum sealer all the time for things other than this hobby, so that something to consider too.


Edited by WeavieWonder (08/18/16 11:07 PM)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23555500 - 08/18/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do your bags ever fail? Mine constantly do. It's a great preserving method but it's frustrating when you have to throw away whole harvests.


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23555523 - 08/18/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

very rarely.  My vac sealer has a "gentle" cycle which sucks the air out more slowly, which seems to make the bags less prone to puncture.  Also the size of the bag is important.  Leave yourself plenty of room.  If I do come across a punctured bag, it's usually within 2-3 days after sealing, so no big deal.  Quantity also seems to make a difference too.  I have best results with an ounce or less per bag.  Putting a pound in one bag would be kind of silly as I usually do not consume that much in one go.  usually. :wink:


Edited by WeavieWonder (08/18/16 11:35 PM)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23555540 - 08/18/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Might just be my bags that suck then. There's no telling when they are gonna fail, could be a few days, could be a couple of months. How much I fill them depends on what size my grow is or if I have multiple grows of the same variety going. I just seal the entire harvest in the same bag so if that happens to be a monotub that did fairly well, Iend up having quite a big bag.


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OfflineNo1Special
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Re: Preserving Potency. The efficacy of different methods. [Re: spor_88] * 1
    #26585249 - 04/07/20 11:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I grew mushrooms in the late 70s, early 80s and had problems with potency depletion with dried mushrooms. I tried canning fresh mushrooms in one-dose 1/2 pint Mason jars, which worked very well. This was 1983. I had one jar left and saved it for posterity just sitting in the light on my office shelf. A month ago I wanted to have a reacquaintance trip to prepare myself for a hero-dose psychedelic therapy session. I opened the jar the night before and cut a 1/2" off a stem, ate it and drank a sip of the water just to make sure it didn't make me sick. The aroma and taste were the same as when they were first canned. I had no ill effect, so the next day I took them out to a state park, finished off the jar and took off on a hike. An hour in the effect hit and was just as potent as they had been 38 years ago. The trip lasted a good 6 hours or more.


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