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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? * 1
    #23533579 - 08/12/16 03:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So I stumbled upon these 2nd trimester and 3rd trimester abortion videos. These would actually be very informative, if it didn't have such bullshit Christian propaganda behind it.

Take for example, the 2nd trimester abortion video. It's propaganda, so they didn't include the shot that they inject into the fetus, causing it to lose consciousness first. The video tries to insinuate the baby is torn limb by limb and then ripped out alive, which is untrue.





Third Trimester abortion video:






I added a poll above to see what people think. Now, if you believe it should, or shouldn't be legal, state why below.




MY PERSONAL CONSENSUS IS: late-term abortion should always be LEGAL.

Even if the pregnancy is not conceived from rape. Even if it doesn't save the woman's life to terminate. There are other reasons why second trimester and late-term abortions are still so necessary.

The reason is, often times fetuses aren't large enough until at least 18-20 weeks to do a fully comprehensive brain and body ultrasound scan, so you actually don't find out about severe deformities or disabilities until well into the second trimester. Some deformities, you don't even find out about until weeks after that, reaching into the third trimester.

I strongly recommend you go to http://endingawantedpregnancy.com/stories/ and read the different testimonials and stories from different mothers who wanted their babies, but terminated because they found out their child would have these types of deformities.

These are the real faces of women who have late-term abortions. They grieve because their babies were WANTED, that's why they carried so late to term.

Instead, they found out their baby would be in immense pain for all of its life (like if it had a severe case of spin bifida or hydrocephalus or something else), or they found out their child had holes in their brain and was legally brain-dead and would never walk or talk or even be able to react, and there are also other women who have found out that even if their child was born, it would not live past 2 years.

These aren't "minor" disabilities like simply missing a leg or having a cleft lip. These are ones where they will need constant 24/7 care to even shower or eat or move their bodies, and they are in such bad pain they can't even sleep. And that's not just while they're babies, but for the rest of their adult lives too.

This whole notion of fickle women getting abortions simply to avoid minor inconveniences to themselves, like these Right-Wing extremist parties are trying to push, is a crock of shit.
Should Late (2nd or 3rd trimester) abortion be legal?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (08/12/16 02:11 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



Edited by Crystal G (08/12/16 04:53 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23533582 - 08/12/16 03:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegoldcaphunter
EMS Medic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 7,432
Loc: Massachusetts Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23533599 - 08/12/16 03:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...




Exactly what I was thinking. I'm out.


--------------------

The picture to the far left is a reminder to our users to stay safe and healthy, that's my third open heart surgery due to over use of amps. Stay safe kiddos :wink:


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: goldcaphunter]
    #23533657 - 08/12/16 04:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23533663 - 08/12/16 04:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting. Because most pro-choicers are for 1st-term abortions, some are even for 2nd-term abortions. But very few pro-choicers are even for 3rd-term abortions being legal, except in cases where the mother's life is in danger.


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Offlinetopdog82
Death Spirit
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: goldcaphunter] * 1
    #23533671 - 08/12/16 05:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

goldcaphunter said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...




Exactly what I was thinking. I'm out.



this american approves of this message


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23533673 - 08/12/16 05:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If the parents want to abort it you know already that the babys life is gonna be shitty might aswell let them abort it


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23533786 - 08/12/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.





wrong. democrats have used this issue to vilify republicans. most republicans dont give a shit about abortion


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23533817 - 08/12/16 07:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.





wrong. democrats have used this issue to vilify republicans. most republicans dont give a shit about abortion



Here we go!

:popcorn:


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23533864 - 08/12/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.





wrong. democrats have used this issue to vilify republicans. most republicans dont give a shit about abortion



Wrong, the republican party disagrees with your statement, they fully support anti abortion legislation so they do indeed give a poop about abortion. Ted Cruz of Texas instantly comes to mind concerning this issue. The republicans have vilified themselves plenty from this nonsense of bathroom laws, to the ridiculousness of having anti-abortion a part of their platform.

Woah I didn't know you knew most republicans, like no way. How long did it take to meet them all and interview them? Must of been a few decades at least :lol:

:woah:


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame] * 1
    #23533879 - 08/12/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Some people should be aborted well into their adult lives.


--------------------


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Patlal]
    #23533955 - 08/12/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Only to save the mother, I voted

Once a women opens her legs, she looses autonomy of her uterus. A new sequence of dna is created,it has the potential under natural cercumstances(as opposed to cloning) to develope an identity(which animals cant do)

thousands of babies are aborted every day. Its fucking disgusting, I suppose life and people are fucking disgusting though. I hear peple go on about how unimportant human life is, how we are animals. thanks secular materialism, really appriciate the injection of nhialism into the culture

if you get an abortion, fuck you, you should be in prison. I just watched this travesty of liberal garbage called the Knick that had a long running pro abortion romance of a pair aborting babies for money in the 20's Its beyond disturbing how little babies mean


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23534003 - 08/12/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.





wrong. democrats have used this issue to vilify republicans. most republicans dont give a shit about abortion



Wrong, the republican party disagrees with your statement, they fully support anti abortion legislation so they do indeed give a poop about abortion. Ted Cruz of Texas instantly comes to mind concerning this issue. The republicans have vilified themselves plenty from this nonsense of bathroom laws, to the ridiculousness of having anti-abortion a part of their platform.





just because someone disagrees with something doesnt mean they feel it should be
illegal, it's no different than those people that dont use drugs but do support
their legalization. remember sarah palin? she doesnt support abortion but when an
abortion bill cam across her desk she signed it into law ensuring people in alaska had access.


the media likes to take a few outspoken republicans and catapult them into the
spotlight, they push it as if all republican want to outlaw abortions, and as you
said, it's a non issue because it's not something that will change but the media
continues to push these narratives and of course there are those on both sides
that pander to their voter base including pro life democrats, funny thing is, you
dont hear anything about the pro-life democrats

http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php/about-us

Quote:


Woah I didn't know you knew most republicans, like no way. How long did it take to meet them all and interview them? Must of been a few decades at least :lol:




whoa... I didnt know yo9u spoke for every republican voter

http://www.gopchoice.org/


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InvisibleCalifornia
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
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Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E Flag
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 3
    #23534010 - 08/12/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...



Americans.  Fuck yeah.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 3
    #23534030 - 08/12/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
thousands of babies are aborted every day. Its fucking disgusting


if you get an abortion, fuck you, you should be in prison.






the thing is, many of those unwanted children will be in prison, they'll create
millions of victims in the process of getting there, so in reality, what you're
saying is you support higher crime rates, victimization of innocents, a lifetime
of drug addiction and much higher taxes to cover the healthcare and support
of these unwanted people on welfare, rehab and prison


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23534139 - 08/12/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...



I completely agree on abortion at all stages as well.


--------------------


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23534143 - 08/12/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
thousands of babies are aborted every day. Its fucking disgusting


if you get an abortion, fuck you, you should be in prison.






the thing is, many of those unwanted children will be in prison, they'll create
millions of victims in the process of getting there, so in reality, what you're
saying is you support higher crime rates, victimization of innocents, a lifetime
of drug addiction and much higher taxes to cover the healthcare and support
of these unwanted people on welfare, rehab and prison



Agreed. Some people let their feelings get in the way of what is best.


--------------------


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534145 - 08/12/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Only to save the mother, I voted

Once a women opens her legs, she looses autonomy of her uterus. A new sequence of dna is created,it has the potential under natural cercumstances(as opposed to cloning) to develope an identity(which animals cant do)

thousands of babies are aborted every day. Its fucking disgusting, I suppose life and people are fucking disgusting though. I hear peple go on about how unimportant human life is, how we are animals. thanks secular materialism, really appriciate the injection of nhialism into the culture

if you get an abortion, fuck you, you should be in prison. I just watched this travesty of liberal garbage called the Knick that had a long running pro abortion romance of a pair aborting babies for money in the 20's Its beyond disturbing how little babies mean



:rolleyes:


--------------------


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23534193 - 08/12/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
The republicans have been using this issue (non-issue imo) as an excuse to garner votes from the christian demographic of this country. There is no legitimate reasoning as to why this is a problem in the first place. Another non issue perpetuated by the right, fueled by an archaic religious agenda that continues to divide our country as a whole.





wrong. democrats have used this issue to vilify republicans. most republicans dont give a shit about abortion



Wrong, the republican party disagrees with your statement, they fully support anti abortion legislation so they do indeed give a poop about abortion. Ted Cruz of Texas instantly comes to mind concerning this issue. The republicans have vilified themselves plenty from this nonsense of bathroom laws, to the ridiculousness of having anti-abortion a part of their platform.





just because someone disagrees with something doesnt mean they feel it should be
illegal, it's no different than those people that dont use drugs but do support
their legalization.
remember sarah palin? she doesnt support abortion but when an
abortion bill cam across her desk she signed it into law ensuring people in alaska had access.


the media likes to take a few outspoken republicans and catapult them into the
spotlight, they push it as if all republican want to outlaw abortions, and as you
said, it's a non issue because it's not something that will change but the media
continues to push these narratives and of course there are those on both sides
that pander to their voter base including pro life democrats, funny thing is, you
dont hear anything about the pro-life democrats

http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php/about-us

Quote:


Woah I didn't know you knew most republicans, like no way. How long did it take to meet them all and interview them? Must of been a few decades at least :lol:




whoa... I didnt know yo9u spoke for every republican voter

http://www.gopchoice.org/



Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong. It has nothing to with a difference of opinion, if it was only that there wouldnt be any issue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs but the line is crossed the minute these republicans start drafting bills that endanger a woman's life. I shouldnt have to explain this but if I leave anything up in the air you'll misconstrue my post and take things out of context.

Are you're denying that its a part of the republican party's overall platform? It doesnt matter what a few republicans think or do, what matters is what the party agrees to as to what is a part of their platform. Its the same with the dems. There's a few that do not support abortion just like their republican counterparts, however overall the democratic party doesnt endorse that stance and are pro choice by majority. Yes blame the media, such a cop out...Next you're going to try to tell me that the republican party supports the lgbtq community lmao, because there's this many republicans that do *holds up fingers :lol:

I apologize for being snarky but its hard to take you seriously when you're advocating so hard for a party that nominated Donald Trump as their presidential candidate and also using the #notallrepublicans argument, it is weak.


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534205 - 08/12/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The statistics that are cited about abortion and crime are unconvincing since crime was going don before that for other reasons
Its just another way for thye unthinking delinquents to not take responsibility

parents who have iids they cant tak care of, afford, deserve jail
women who have abortions should have their right to consent revoked

liberals always try to over play the 'it ist a human' or 'its just goo' thing. Its beyond disgusting. It has distinct dna, and can become a person if the mom isnt an irresponsibe entitled bitch who thinks her womb isnt occupied. Thankfuly half of women have some sense and are against this

once you spread your leggs you are giving up autonomy of your womb.


--------------------


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 45 minutes
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534217 - 08/12/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Only to save the mother, I voted

Once a women opens her legs, she looses autonomy of her uterus. A new sequence of dna is created,it has the potential under natural cercumstances(as opposed to cloning) to develope an identity(which animals cant do)

thousands of babies are aborted every day. Its fucking disgusting, I suppose life and people are fucking disgusting though. I hear peple go on about how unimportant human life is, how we are animals. thanks secular materialism, really appriciate the injection of nhialism into the culture

if you get an abortion, fuck you, you should be in prison. I just watched this travesty of liberal garbage called the Knick that had a long running pro abortion romance of a pair aborting babies for money in the 20's Its beyond disturbing how little babies mean




Abortion isn't a liberal idea, early humans practiced infanticide for tribal survival, that's a conservative practice.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23534220 - 08/12/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong.





would you like to show us that legislation?

how about this, tell us why it's always a woman's choice and a man has no choice
in the birth of a child but he is required to support that child or go to jail if
he doesnt. wasnt it the woman's choice to have the child? shouldnt it be her
obligation to then care for the child?


Quote:

Are you're denying that its a part of the republican party's overall platform?




maybe you should show us on the GOP website where it's part of their official platform

you can also show us all the anti abortion legislation these elected officials in
washington have been introducing over the last 40 years


Quote:

I apologize for being snarky but its hard to take you seriously when you're advocating so hard for a party that nominated Donald Trump as their presidential candidate and also using the #notallrepublicans argument, it is weak.




lol... the republican party didnt want trump

you really are poorly informed


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: qman]
    #23534234 - 08/12/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Conservative in the sense that we did it a long time ago, but not traditionally conservative in our current culteral context.

conservative or not, its a fucking evil practice. we dont do it for survivl, we do it because some people are irresponsible, especially women, considering it's their uterus


--------------------


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23534257 - 08/12/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong.





would you like to show us that legislation?

how about this, tell us why it's always a woman's choice and a man has no choice
in the birth of a child but he is required to support that child or go to jail if
he doesnt. wasnt it the woman's choice to have the child? shouldnt it be her
obligation to then care for the child?


Quote:

Are you're denying that its a part of the republican party's overall platform?




maybe you should show us on the GOP website where it's part of their official platform

you can also show us all the anti abortion legislation these elected officials in
washington have been introducing over the last 40 years


Quote:

I apologize for being snarky but its hard to take you seriously when you're advocating so hard for a party that nominated Donald Trump as their presidential candidate and also using the #notallrepublicans argument, it is weak.




lol... the republican party didnt want trump

you really are poorly informed



LOL I cant even..This is exactly what I'm talking about, you sir live in a bubble. I wave the white flag, enjoy your hard headed ways. I'm glad trump is the republican nominee, he's running the party into the ground. All the answers you want are literally a google search away. I'm not going to play the "who posts the most links game" with you. I hope you have a nice day.

:imout:


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534301 - 08/12/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The statistics that are cited about abortion and crime are unconvincing since crime was going don before that for other reasons
Its just another way for thye unthinking delinquents to not take responsibility

parents who have iids they cant tak care of, afford, deserve jail
women who have abortions should have their right to consent revoked

liberals always try to over play the 'it ist a human' or 'its just goo' thing. Its beyond disgusting. It has distinct dna, and can become a person if the mom isnt an irresponsibe entitled bitch who thinks her womb isnt occupied. Thankfuly half of women have some sense and are against this

once you spread your leggs you are giving up autonomy of your womb.



And I totally disagree with you. I have been through 3 that I know of and thank my lucky stars I never had to raise them. I was on a certain path and who knows what those kids may have turned out like. I am not a MENSA person but am fairly intelligent. I feel like most people that have kids do so because they think they should, they have no real reason(s).

Realistically most people are of average intelligence and not very set financially. These are key elements to having happy productive humans integrate into society. I'm not saying they are the ONLY things, but they certainly help a great deal. Abortions have been going on for centuries and I think science that they have finally made them as safe as possible these days. Trisomy 21 test is there for a reason. Yes some people abuse the system of it, but by and large it is a "godsend" (heh, couldn't help it) to have the technology to safely (mostly) abort fetuses. It has saved countless lives on several facets of the issue.

Do you think by some "miracle" that a person like the honey boo boo variety will have a kid(s) and they will go on to win the nobel prize and cure cancer etc...??? One has to have the intelligence born into them in the first place from superior genetics to even begin that process.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534363 - 08/12/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

they probably wont go o to do that.. who knows though.
Its still baby killing. It isnt average intelegence peole who have them, its pieces of immoral shit

tgats america now though. freedom is edonism and left is right. Nothing means anythig and killing babies is ok
cant eat a cat legally, but you can buy a burger and kil your baby in the same afternoon

early abortions have been done similarly for a long time
dialate, scrape

if its that bad, put it up for adoption and burdon another person. ou are only a piece of shit that burdons society then, not a baby killer


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534382 - 08/12/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
they probably wont go o to do that.. who knows though.
Its still baby killing. It isnt average intelegence peole who have them, its pieces of immoral shit

tgats america now though. freedom is edonism and left is right. Nothing means anythig and killing babies is ok
cant eat a cat legally, but you can buy a burger and kil your baby in the same afternoon

early abortions have been done similarly for a long time
dialate, scrape

if its that bad, put it up for adoption and burdon another person. ou are only a piece of shit that burdons society then, not a baby killer



Well, I do know. If one has no intelligence to work with, there will be none that develops! If you feel guilty about it that does not mean that it is wrong for everyone. It is a blessing of science to have the technology to do it for the good of humanity! It is a god given right to have an abortion!:smirk:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534408 - 08/12/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

so, as long as the human is young enough murder is ok? as long as it cant defend itself? Is breathing somehow the arbitrary line pople have come up with?

someties that is true, most of it even, but sometimes you get outliers and pele who see their parent's examle and want better for their lives

If you dont do anything horrible to revoke our humanity, like kill or rape, then you deserve the ability to improve yourself and cherish your life

an abortion sgould come with standard uterus removal and vasectomy for the father if he signed on for it


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534447 - 08/12/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with the last statement somewhat. Sometimes an abortion saves the lives of those who go on to do great things. Sometimes a person born into a bad situation goes on to be a really great person, sometimes, not very often.

If someone with a low IQ or is in some really horrible situation that there is no way out of no matter what they do, an abortion is best. I can see the way you feel about this subject. I disagree. I have been in the situation and can tell you right now I am VERY glad I agreed to it, all parties agreed from the woman to their parents.

Our conversation will only produce the same old arguments and results. We absolutely disagree on the subject. I accept that and know I can not say anything to change your mind. I'm not trying to, but I do like that we can discuss it and put our thoughts on the net for others to see an contemplate.

P.S.
There was speculation that a kid or 2 was/is mine, but I don't think I would ever pursue it. I do wonder at times though. I remember the girls names,so I could go there if I wanted to. I always start thinking about it when this subject comes up.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534525 - 08/12/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Conservative in the sense that we did it a long time ago, but not traditionally conservative in our current culteral context.

conservative or not, its a fucking evil practice. we dont do it for survivl, we do it because some people are irresponsible, especially women, considering it's their uterus




"we don't do it for survival"

Not on the surface, but over time having children that society can't afford will in fact kill that population.

If abortion wasn't legal since the 60's, the African American population in the US would be near 40% instead of the current 13%, that's something for you to think about.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: qman]
    #23534555 - 08/12/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the idea of society not affording children is false. Idiots who cant afford chidren have them, but people who are somewhat socialized will eventually work if te incentives are there
Id argue the government kews inscentives in an unhealthy way in almost all instances.

I understand disagreeing with my conclusion, but a blasatacist and a zygote are both humans in developeent, its still murder, the viability out of the omb argument is one of the most stupid arguments Ive ever heard. then maybe we should just let compraised babies die

murder is a legal term, so it may not be that. it is homicide, literally


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: qman]
    #23534557 - 08/12/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Not only the "african americans" but all the impoverished people that weren't lucky in the gene department, not saying that that group is specifically low in genes etc...just saying that stupidity breeds stupidity most of the time no matter the "race".


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23534562 - 08/12/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

As a Libertarian, I see it as a debate over rights than lives. Sure abortion is sad. But we shouldn't dictate to others over the choices they make with their bodies.

If somebody wants to do heroin, sure whatever, just as long as it doesn't threaten my life or threatens the lifes of other people(this is why we have DUI's as a law).

Most libertarians would be against DUIs plural, but I still don't want my life threatened because of idiots.

I believe you should have a right to do WHATEVER you want with your body, as long as you aren't threatening me or others.

So is abortion a threat against me? No. Is it a threat against others? Define others... Some may suggest that abortions should be legal till the baby is born. I don't care, honestly...

Personally this is just my opinion dont attack me for it. Even if i had a wife that was in third trimester, she wanted a abortion and i didn't, but she got one anyways then i wouldve most likely got a divorce then force a stupid law in place. Either way, you can't prevent others from getting an abortion, even if it is your spouse.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534565 - 08/12/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
the idea of society not affording children is false. Idiots who cant afford chidren have them, but people who are somewhat socialized will eventually work if te incentives are there
Id argue the government kews inscentives in an unhealthy way in almost all instances.

I understand disagreeing with my conclusion, but a blasatacist and a zygote are both humans in developeent, its still murder, the viability out of the omb argument is one of the most stupid arguments Ive ever heard. then maybe we should just let compraised babies die

murder is a legal term, so it may not be that. it is homicide, literally



Not if one believes in the scientific facts.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23534571 - 08/12/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
It's propaganda, so they didn't include the shot that they inject into the fetus, causing it to lose consciousness first.



Thanks for the heads up, and here i was ready to think that this procedure was really fucked up.

Quote:

Crystal G said:
causing it to lose consciousness first. The video tries to insinuate the baby is torn limb by limb and then ripped out alive, which is untrue.

.




Well unless there is more that you didn't mention, it would still be alive even if unconscious.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23534575 - 08/12/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534586 - 08/12/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
the idea of society not affording children is false. Idiots who cant afford chidren have them, but people who are somewhat socialized will eventually work if te incentives are there
Id argue the government kews inscentives in an unhealthy way in almost all instances.

I understand disagreeing with my conclusion, but a blasatacist and a zygote are both humans in developeent, its still murder, the viability out of the omb argument is one of the most stupid arguments Ive ever heard. then maybe we should just let compraised babies die

murder is a legal term, so it may not be that. it is homicide, literally



Not if one believes in the scientific facts.



Its not a scientifict fact that that isnt a human./It has human dna, and since a baby isnt a parasite(because i isnt a differant species0, its a human

it literally is homicide and there is no way around that. It has its own dna, not the dna of a single parent, i is a human in development


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534597 - 08/12/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

But the female body sometimes treats it as a parasite and it can kill the host.:shrug:


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23534598 - 08/12/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I would argue conciouness implies life.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Revok]
    #23534606 - 08/12/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

maybe

but unconsciousness doesn't imply death.


Quote:

con·scious·ness
noun
the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.




So the baby, if merely unconscious, is in fact being torn apart while alive.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534612 - 08/12/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Revok said:
I would argue conciouness implies life.



consciousness has no real meaning
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
But the female body sometimes treats it as a parasite and it can kill the host.:shrug:



a parasite is a differant species. the fact that some things, like differing blood types, can cause the body to have an adverse reaction doesnt make the baby a parasite. If the mother is in danger, that is understandable. That is an extreme cercumstance


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534621 - 08/12/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

so obviously you don't agree with aborting a fetus if the trisomy 21 test shows a defective one?


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Revok]
    #23534623 - 08/12/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
the idea of society not affording children is false. Idiots who cant afford chidren have them, but people who are somewhat socialized will eventually work if te incentives are there
Id argue the government kews inscentives in an unhealthy way in almost all instances.

I understand disagreeing with my conclusion, but a blasatacist and a zygote are both humans in developeent, its still murder, the viability out of the omb argument is one of the most stupid arguments Ive ever heard. then maybe we should just let compraised babies die

murder is a legal term, so it may not be that. it is homicide, literally



Not if one believes in the scientific facts.



Its not a scientifict fact that that isnt a human./It has human dna, and since a baby isnt a parasite(because i isnt a differant species0, its a human

it literally is homicide and there is no way around that. It has its own dna, not the dna of a single parent, i is a human in development




The skin cells that fall off my body has my human DNA, so what? Someday a lab is going to be able to clone that DNA, where do you draw the line?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23534626 - 08/12/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:

Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong.



What about when beliefs turn into legislation that facilitates the destruction of babies bodies?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23534665 - 08/12/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I addressed the skin cell argument, its stupid and dishonest

aboring the geneticaly deficient is a difficult question. we abore down syndrome afetal alcohol syndrom babies to the point of non existance, as though the significance of their lives to them in the future is of no meaning.
there may be understandable reasons, but mostly people are just lazy and pathetic. Im avoiding school work right now. lazy and pathetic


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534672 - 08/12/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What's the skin cell argument?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23534702 - 08/12/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I said that a fertelized egg having ts own dna and being a human in deelopment made it a human

he said that since a skin cell can be cloned, what about that? It has its own dna

its a dishonest argument


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534711 - 08/12/16 12:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yea that's just silly.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534733 - 08/12/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I addressed the skin cell argument, its stupid and dishonest

aboring the geneticaly deficient is a difficult question. we abore down syndrome afetal alcohol syndrom babies to the point of non existance, as though the significance of their lives to them in the future is of no meaning.
there may be understandable reasons, but mostly people are just lazy and pathetic. Im avoiding school work right now. lazy and pathetic



If there is a way to determine fetal alcohol syndrome before the baby is born, I am on board with aborting it to save the life it may/may not have, also the mother would not be fit anyway.:shrug: Both this one and the down syndrome kids are a burden, unless the family is wealthy enough to take care of it and of sound mind/intelligence. Money is a key point in these situations, not to mention intelligence.

They are trying to normalize down syndrome people by putting them on the real world, and also that hideous show teen mom, what a load of BS!


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534739 - 08/12/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I said that a fertelized egg having ts own dna and being a human in deelopment made it a human

he said that since a skin cell can be cloned, what about that? It has its own dna

its a dishonest argument




You're suggesting that the DNA from a fertilized egg has MORE importance than the DNA in the skin cell that fell off my body, why is that?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534745 - 08/12/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I also want to add that I have known people with down syndrome kids and they are taxed to their limits mentally and physically, I can tell they are not really happy. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way. I bet you given the chance they would rather not have the kid.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: qman]
    #23534758 - 08/12/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You cant save every skin cell. Its a version of 'very time you masturbate you kill babies'

Its like peole who get on a vegan that accidentally drank the dairy milk. Its about doing what you can to protect a potential human life that is developing in a womb.

Its really a stupid argument made by people who want to cause confusion with logic loops that have nothing to do with reality.


I dont think we should normalize those diseases, they arent nrmal people. hey still deserve respect and have experiances significant to themselves

fetal alcohol syndrome can be caused by the father drinking too. It isnt necesarally a lack of responsibility, though, alcohol is an irresponsible and poisonous drug

life isnt about being happy. watch what happens between your leggs.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534763 - 08/12/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Life can be about being happy mostly, one has to take the good with the bad, but one can also avoid bad situations through the act of science, that is a fact.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534772 - 08/12/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I also finally admitted to being gay and acting on my deepest desires at the age of 26. If I had kids when I was 17 (first time) how do you think it would have affected their lives? I was also doing drugs a lot, I was on that path and nothing, not even kids, would have stopped me, so I saved them from a life of misery and myself.

I find nothing wrong with abortion for any reason at all what so ever, even if a woman does it many many times and is a complete whore, I say even better for her in that situation. Why bring the kid up in that situation, or put them in the foster care system? Haven't you read/seen the results of that?
Science!


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23534803 - 08/12/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
I also finally admitted to being gay and acting on my deepest desires at the age of 26. If I had kids when I was 17 (first time) how do you think it would have affected their lives? I was also doing drugs a lot, I was on that path and nothing, not even kids, would have stopped me, so I saved them from a life of misery and myself.

I find nothing wrong with abortion for any reason at all what so ever, even if a woman does it many many times and is a complete whore, I say even better for her in that situation. Why bring the kid up in that situation, or put them in the foster care system? Haven't you read/seen the results of that?
Science!



Thats something you will not ever know, as the baby is dead, and you give excuses like most of the rest of us to differant degrees

that last thing you said shows you have no concept of personal responsibility nor the vaue of life. It really encapsulates the worst in america. You give human life no value

To be happy is not a purpose


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23534819 - 08/12/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes.

Quite frankly, I would ALMOST (almost) support killing the baby within moments of it actually being born, if it got down to that. Anything before that is fine.

Less than one month old babies are barely alive in any recognizable form. They require 24 hour care and can do absolutely nothing. Often they just die all on their own for no good reason. Other times really minor innocent shit kills them. Often times they can't even figure out how to even fucking eat because they're so wildly incompetent and barely even alive in any meaningful sense.

Anyone who gets all squeamish and angry about abortion is kindof a thin skinned pussy. Like, the fact that they can't handle that someone somewhere might get an abortion is just a totally thin skinned pussy move.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: nooneman]
    #23534901 - 08/12/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It isnt about being thin skinned. Its about taking responsibility, one of the many virtues that my genoration doesnt have

no shame, no reverence for humanity

so, if you cant take care of yourself, you have no meaning? right. Thats a well thought out position.

barely alive in a meaningful sense? They literally are alive, and developing from the moment its born. They can see arterial sclarosis on foetuses. They are already dieing in the womb

If human life doesnt matter, literally nothing does.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534972 - 08/12/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
I also finally admitted to being gay and acting on my deepest desires at the age of 26. If I had kids when I was 17 (first time) how do you think it would have affected their lives? I was also doing drugs a lot, I was on that path and nothing, not even kids, would have stopped me, so I saved them from a life of misery and myself.

I find nothing wrong with abortion for any reason at all what so ever, even if a woman does it many many times and is a complete whore, I say even better for her in that situation. Why bring the kid up in that situation, or put them in the foster care system? Haven't you read/seen the results of that?
Science!



Thats something you will not ever know, as the baby is dead, and you give excuses like most of the rest of us to differant degrees

that last thing you said shows you have no concept of personal responsibility nor the vaue of life. It really encapsulates the worst in america. You give human life no value

To be happy is not a purpose



Excuses or not I did not attack or judge you for what you were stating, you just did that to me, it's ok though.:grin: I give human life great value if that human is a kind, productive human. I have a great deal of personal responsibility, and that is why it was best to not have the kid(s) in my life, it would have turned out very badly. That was the most responsible thing for me to do for the good of my life and everyone else around me.

Being happy comes and goes. Peaks and valleys man.:grin:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23534987 - 08/12/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
It isnt about being thin skinned. Its about taking responsibility,.



This.

Abortion has become a form of Birth Control and that should be an obvious problem whether u are pro-choice or not.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535013 - 08/12/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't see it as a problem.:shrug:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23535027 - 08/12/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Not even in terms of the money spent on a preventable outcome?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535036 - 08/12/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well money is always an issue, and politics etc...if it keeps a kid/parents from a life of misery I'm all for it.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23535104 - 08/12/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The parents maybe but there's no way to be sure the kid isn't being kept from experiencing a good life. Adoption is always an option.

Ideally, people should just use birth control or condoms to prevent a life of responsi... misery.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23535114 - 08/12/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...




:sorry:


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23535139 - 08/12/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Aaaaannnnd congratulations Crystal....

THE PUBS ABOMINATION THREAD AWARD OF THE YEAR GOES TO YOU :lol:

But seriously not as bad as the trump threads... So far.

Kill all the babies. FUCK EM ALL.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535168 - 08/12/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, sure, it's preventable, but people are wildly irresponsible, and three people (mother, father, and child) shouldn't have to suffer for their entire lives just because of one wildly irresponsible decision made on one random day out of their whole fucking lives. That's not to even mention the costs to the families of the mother and father who have to support the young parents, or the costs to society as the parents don't have time to get better jobs or a better education etc. And with both parents working shitty dead end jobs with no chance for advancement spending all their time trying to keep a child alive, they're going to be so burned out that they're going to provide that child with a really shitty childhood. In the name of "saving" "life" you're actually ruining the lives of multiple generations of entire families.

Death is a very natural process especially for babies which die quite frequently of natural causes. This isn't some "violation of life." Babies less than a year old are barely even alive and they die on their own without any help from anyone quite easily and commonly.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: nooneman]
    #23535196 - 08/12/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I honestly don't mind one way or the other but i can't see it as anything but a literal violation of life.

If you kill a pregnant woman(even early stage) you are charged with double homicide.
Why then, is it not considered murder in the case of abortion.
My biggest issue is the mental gymnastics those who abort use to paint it as anything but murder.

As far as abortion itself, i am not really affected or passionate enough about it to want to see it abolished. I do think it gets abused as a form of birth control and that we should better educate young adults and maybe provide free actual birth control to young women.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535204 - 08/12/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's about a woman's right to make decisions which concern her body and her future.

It's as simple as that.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23535209 - 08/12/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ya i understand that and i agree that they should have the right to murder their undesired offspring.

I just think they should call it what it is.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535234 - 08/12/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Even if you must assign personhood to the unborn fetus, then it still wouldn't be murder, it would be more like involuntary homicide, self-defense... something like that.

Pregnant women should be allowed to abort their fetuses at will under "stand your ground" interpretations of self-defense. I mean having a person in your belly when you don't want them there is about as invasive and intrusive as it gets. If a person breaks into your home you have the prerogative to shoot his ass. I think women should have that same right to decide who gets to be inside of their bodies and who doesn't.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535262 - 08/12/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.

My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: ManianFH]
    #23535266 - 08/12/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What I don't get is that it is legal, but the moment the baby is out of the womb, even if the umbilicial is still attached, murdering it is illegal.

Unless it threatens a cop :trolldance:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: ManianFH]
    #23535269 - 08/12/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Even if you must assign personhood to the unborn fetus, then it still wouldn't be murder, it would be more like involuntary homicide, self-defense... something like that.

Pregnant women should be allowed to abort their fetuses at will under "stand your ground" interpretations of self-defense. I mean having a person in your belly when you don't want them there is about as invasive and intrusive as it gets. If a person breaks into your home you have the prerogative to shoot his ass. I think women should have that same right to decide who gets to be inside of their bodies and who doesn't.



the women put the person there
she spread her legs
it literally is a person. The only way it isnt is if you interperate personhood in some sort of wrong way because of the lack of human like features, which a ltae term aborted baby would defenately have.
Quote:

mick said:
I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.

My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.



they arent doing it 'to their bodies', they are doing it to their developing baby


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Apostle]
    #23535377 - 08/12/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
The parents maybe but there's no way to be sure the kid isn't being kept from experiencing a good life. Adoption is always an option.





A lot of parents who abort in the third trimester would have been giving birth to handicapped, retarded, or mentally ill children. What are the odds that adoption is a good option for them?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23535428 - 08/12/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Yeah, sure, it's preventable, but people are wildly irresponsible, and three people (mother, father, and child) shouldn't have to suffer for their entire lives just because of one wildly irresponsible decision made on one random day out of their whole fucking lives. That's not to even mention the costs to the families of the mother and father who have to support the young parents, or the costs to society as the parents don't have time to get better jobs or a better education etc. And with both parents working shitty dead end jobs with no chance for advancement spending all their time trying to keep a child alive, they're going to be so burned out that they're going to provide that child with a really shitty childhood. In the name of "saving" "life" you're actually ruining the lives of multiple generations of entire families.

Death is a very natural process especially for babies which die quite frequently of natural causes. This isn't some "violation of life." Babies less than a year old are barely even alive and they die on their own without any help from anyone quite easily and commonly.



My point exactly!

Quote:

Apostle said:
I honestly don't mind one way or the other but i can't see it as anything but a literal violation of life.

If you kill a pregnant woman(even early stage) you are charged with double homicide.
Why then, is it not considered murder in the case of abortion.
My biggest issue is the mental gymnastics those who abort use to paint it as anything but murder.

As far as abortion itself, i am not really affected or passionate enough about it to want to see it abolished. I do think it gets abused as a form of birth control and that we should better educate young adults and maybe provide free actual birth control to young women.



Agreed, but you really want that "murder" title don't you? It's like some people not wanting same sex marriage to be called "marriage" to me,lol.

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Even if you must assign personhood to the unborn fetus, then it still wouldn't be murder, it would be more like involuntary homicide, self-defense... something like that.

Pregnant women should be allowed to abort their fetuses at will under "stand your ground" interpretations of self-defense. I mean having a person in your belly when you don't want them there is about as invasive and intrusive as it gets. If a person breaks into your home you have the prerogative to shoot his ass. I think women should have that same right to decide who gets to be inside of their bodies and who doesn't.



Never thought about it this way, interesting facet.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Even if you must assign personhood to the unborn fetus, then it still wouldn't be murder, it would be more like involuntary homicide, self-defense... something like that.

Pregnant women should be allowed to abort their fetuses at will under "stand your ground" interpretations of self-defense. I mean having a person in your belly when you don't want them there is about as invasive and intrusive as it gets. If a person breaks into your home you have the prerogative to shoot his ass. I think women should have that same right to decide who gets to be inside of their bodies and who doesn't.



the women put the person there
she spread her legs
it literally is a person. The only way it isnt is if you interperate personhood in some sort of wrong way because of the lack of human like features, which a ltae term aborted baby would defenately have.
Quote:

mick said:
I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.

My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.



they arent doing it 'to their bodies', they are doing it to their developing baby



Ah I get what your point is now, "murder" is murder.

Quote:

mick said:
I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.

My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.



Agreed, in certain circumstances. I still see nothing wrong in it. You are going to be an awesome parent though, and that would drastically change my POV if I got that far.

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
The parents maybe but there's no way to be sure the kid isn't being kept from experiencing a good life. Adoption is always an option.





A lot of parents who abort in the third trimester would have been giving birth to handicapped, retarded, or mentally ill children. What are the odds that adoption is a good option for them?



Stellar points!


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23535448 - 08/12/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Its a serious subject. Liberals and those who choose the side of deviancy have no concept of these things because everything is relative, nhialism is the name of the game, and everything is about making things easy. Fuck raising my handicapped kid, Ill just kill it. life is ifficuly, you dont kill challenges

"murder" is murder
no, murder is a legal term. i isnt murder, it is homicide. you are killing a person. it is just a justified, or "justified" killing


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535483 - 08/12/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Its a serious subject. Liberals and those who choose the side of deviancy have no concept of these things because everything is relative, nhialism is the name of the game, and everything is about making things easy. Fuck raising my handicapped kid, Ill just kill it. life is ifficuly, you dont kill challenges

"murder" is murder
no, murder is a legal term. i isnt murder, it is homicide. you are killing a person. it is just a justified, or "justified" killing




You're ignorant if you think raising a handicapped kid is no big deal.

There are some deformities where doctors predict that the baby will not survive past 2 years. Or that the baby will be in immense pain for all of its life, and won't even be comfortable enough to sleep. Or the child is brain dead and has holes in its brain.

These aren't "minor" disabilities, like simply missing a leg or having a cleft lip or a hunched spine, these are ones where they will need constant 24/7 care to even shower or eat or move their bodies, and they are in such bad pain they can't even sleep. And that's not just while they're babies, but for the rest of their adult lives until they become old and die too.

But yeah, it's just "no big deal," parents should birth and raise them anyway even knowing these facts. :cookiemonster: :rolleyes:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535491 - 08/12/16 05:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

there is also an empathy side to that, do you see how handicapped people are treated in society, it literally is the epitome of suffering. even worse if they have the faculty to realize that 99% of the world will only engage them with pity or abusive situations.

having grown up with close family being extra chromosomes and another autistic i know the difficulties of caring and providing them with a healthy life without excessive funding.

we also live in a culture that will keep someone who's mind has departed this world alive for years regardless of how they are treated. so take killing babies with a grain of salt.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23535626 - 08/12/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Its a serious subject. Liberals and those who choose the side of deviancy have no concept of these things because everything is relative, nhialism is the name of the game, and everything is about making things easy. Fuck raising my handicapped kid, Ill just kill it. life is ifficuly, you dont kill challenges

"murder" is murder
no, murder is a legal term. i isnt murder, it is homicide. you are killing a person. it is just a justified, or "justified" killing




Could you list the negative ramifications for abortion on society as a whole? 

We have over 8 billion humans on the planet, what should be the goal? 

I don't see any negative aspects to the policy, we still function has a species, our population is at an all-time high, aborting some unwanted children doesn't seem to affect us at all. :shrug:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: qman]
    #23535732 - 08/12/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There is alot to respond to.

I disnt say it isnt a big deal to raie handicapped kids. Its a challenge to raise any kid. That's why women should be smarter, but they arent.

Some disabilities may be so horrible I could see tat. Killing downs babies and auistic children seems very cruel, because you are killing them. There are levels though, and gray areas.

Population growth is slowing and with aging we will see great die offs in some places. The west already has barely stable population growth, and as lack of education increases in the east, and traditions that condone many children go, that will stabelize too.
That doesnt matter though. I know I want to live, fuck if there are billions of others. The individual has rights, the collective is a contrivence. Its not about the world, and that is another fucked up backward way to see a life.

Nhialism though. I could respond by saying, 'how wold the world be ithout you? maybe you should be killed?'
you probably would give an answer like 'ya, whatever, probably. It would be ok'
Ive had that sort of answer given alot of times


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/12/16 06:28 PM)


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535740 - 08/12/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
There is alot to respond to.

I disnt say it isnt a big deal to raie handicapped kids. Its a challenge to raise any kid. That's why women should be smarter, but they arent.




Abortions and adoptions often occur because of a father's failure to adequately take responsibility for their children. If fathers were smarter, chances are the numbers of abortions and adoptions would be a lot lower.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23535754 - 08/12/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

we dont have the vaginas.
men are horney, you have to controll yourself. do you even know how horney men get?

deadbeat fathers are terrible. a child should have both parents. he state shouldnt support single mothers at all, and in fact, we should discourage it as a society rather then see it as normal.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535762 - 08/12/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

One could go into what you mean by "both parents" at this point.

I agree about discouraging the single mother thing, especially in teenagers.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535767 - 08/12/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
we dont have the vaginas.
men are horney, you have to controll yourself. do you even know how horney men get?




So what you're saying, is that men by default are so dumb and so stupid, they are incapable of taking responsibility for their own spawn because "durr hurrr me horny."

Perhaps if what you are saying is true, then we should work on sterilizing men who would make unfit parents. Would save a lot of lives, really.


Quote:

deadbeat fathers are terrible. a child should have both parents. he state shouldnt support single mothers at all, and in fact, we should discourage it as a society rather then see it as normal.




So you're against abortion and against welfare and against single mothers, so how exactly would this trifecta even work? Because most women who get abortions are single mothers who would have been on welfare.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23535788 - 08/12/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
we dont have the vaginas.
men are horney, you have to controll yourself. do you even know how horney men get?




So what you're saying, is that men by default are so dumb and so stupid, they are incapable of taking responsibility for their own spawn because "durr hurrr me horny."

Perhaps if what you are saying is true, then we should work on sterilizing men who would make unfit parents. Would save a lot of lives, really.


Quote:

deadbeat fathers are terrible. a child should have both parents. he state shouldnt support single mothers at all, and in fact, we should discourage it as a society rather then see it as normal.




So you're against abortion and against welfare and against single mothers, so how exactly would this trifecta even work? Because most women who get abortions are single mothers who would have been on welfare.



:rimshot:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23535797 - 08/12/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think both male and female have important inputs

Think of it this way, I prefer men. I dont think being gay is a serious way to live your life. well one cant choose who they are attrcted to, to not procreate if you are of reasonable mind because of it ill most likely be a death bed regret.
its natural to want progeny.

Id pick a gay couple over any single parent.

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
we dont have the vaginas.
men are horney, you have to controll yourself. do you even know how horney men get?




So what you're saying, is that men by default are so dumb and so stupid, they are incapable of taking responsibility for their own spawn because "durr hurrr me horny."

Perhaps if what you are saying is true, then we should work on sterilizing men who would make unfit parents. Would save a lot of lives, really.


Quote:

deadbeat fathers are terrible. a child should have both parents. he state shouldnt support single mothers at all, and in fact, we should discourage it as a society rather then see it as normal.




So you're against abortion and against welfare and against single mothers, so how exactly would this trifecta even work? Because most women who get abortions are single mothers who would have been on welfare.



we are horney, and by nature we want to fill others with our reproductive fluids. we often do take measures not to have children, but we only say yes mostly. Unless we rape you, you made the choice and put the responsibility on yourself. If I get in a car, i accept that people die. accept responsibility

it would hurt for a while, but we have normalized single motherhood and even rewarded it. Its a complicated problem, but ideally pairs should raise their children and work to do so. Its sad for the kid, but their unfortunate stupid mom and, I assume, deadbeat dad that she let between her leggs, put the in that situation. It isnt ideal. few things are. It isnt our job to pay for it


nothing is ideal. Ideals are not real, just like circles


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535889 - 08/12/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Progeny is not natural for some. Glad you would accept 2 gay parents over singular. Circular reasoning.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23535895 - 08/12/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

LOL one time I drove by an adoption agency with my dad that specializes in LGBT adoptions, and my dad goes, "Why do people have a problem with gay parents? Pfft. I'd rather have gay parents raise my kids. Gay adoptive parents are usually very intelligent, open-minded, kind-hearted, polite, have good manners, impeccable style, they are usually not overly religious, and they're rich! So what's the problem with that?"

:lol: I have to say I agree with him.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23535967 - 08/12/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

All abortion should be legal.

That's all I have to say about that.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23535976 - 08/12/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Progeny is not natural for some. Glad you would accept 2 gay parents over singular. Circular reasoning.



It splits the work load at least.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23535984 - 08/12/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong.





would you like to show us that legislation?

how about this, tell us why it's always a woman's choice and a man has no choice
in the birth of a child but he is required to support that child or go to jail if
he doesnt. wasnt it the woman's choice to have the child? shouldnt it be her
obligation to then care for the child?


Quote:

Are you're denying that its a part of the republican party's overall platform?




maybe you should show us on the GOP website where it's part of their official platform

you can also show us all the anti abortion legislation these elected officials in
washington have been introducing over the last 40 years


Quote:

I apologize for being snarky but its hard to take you seriously when you're advocating so hard for a party that nominated Donald Trump as their presidential candidate and also using the #notallrepublicans argument, it is weak.




lol... the republican party didnt want trump

you really are poorly informed



LOL I cant even..This is exactly what I'm talking about, you sir live in a bubble. I wave the white flag, enjoy your hard headed ways. I'm glad trump is the republican nominee, he's running the party into the ground. All the answers you want are literally a google search away. I'm not going to play the "who posts the most links game" with you. I hope you have a nice day.

:imout:




and you cant show me the legislation these republicans are pushing that would ban
abortion... please, burst my little bubble or all you're doing is talking shit
like every other liberal that parrots their favorite celebrity politician



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23535994 - 08/12/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I said that a fertelized egg having ts own dna and being a human in deelopment made it a human





an unfertilized egg has it's own DNA, are menstruation cycles also murder?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23535996 - 08/12/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws and precedents that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where the vagaries of judicial appointment shield them from the backlash that would be engendered by going against the will of the people in the legislative arena.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (08/12/16 08:18 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Lucis]
    #23536000 - 08/12/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
All abortion should be legal.

That's all I have to say about that.





abortion is legal and I encourage everyone to have at least 1


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23536036 - 08/12/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.





oh, so it's another non issue that liberals love to push as being an actual issue
to keep women stirred up as if they're about to be victims of some heinous
legislation... how the fuck can you liberals deal with such manipulation, are you
even aware that they're playing you like a board game?

is it just the nature of liberals to lie and try to bury actual issues

Quote:

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where they can't be checked by popular outrage.





show us where this is happening on the federal level, I mean, if abortion is legal
on the federal level and legal in all 50 states due to the supreme court ruling on
Roe vs. Wade,  what laws are needed to protect abortion. could it be that no laws
are needed and this is just more political pandering from democrats because they
slipped some rider in a retarded bill that they new would never pass such as
obama's cap and trade bill, a bill that was rejected by the democrats when they
held a majority in both chambers?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536049 - 08/12/16 08:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

They're doing it at the state level by shutting down state-funded abortion clinics. Legally speaking, a woman's right to an abortion is as well-protected as ever. But in practical terms, they are insidiously chipping away at provisions for that right in hope of rendering it meaningless.


--------------------
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You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #23536050 - 08/12/16 08:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where they can't be checked by popular outrage.




Yes, instead they will pass legislation that for example, limits the number of abortion clinics to only 2 or 3 within the entire state, or make abortion legal only within the first 6 weeks (I believe this might be the case for Alaska or Arizona, I don't remember precisely which state though). This of course makes things difficult, since women can be 4 weeks pregnant or more by the time they find out they are pregnant, and depending on how overbooked the clinic is, they might not be accepting appointments for another 2-3 weeks.

And of course, the fewer clinics there are, the harder it is for poor people to have an abortion. If they have to go out of state, they will have to cover travel expenses to go several hundred or thousand miles away, pay for a flight or driver and hotel, since driving and traveling will be advised against under anesthesia. On top of that, abortion costs anywhere from $500 to $2,000 depending on how many weeks you are. And women who are poor are usually on some type of state or local Medicare type program, some of which pay for abortions, some don't. But if you are traveling out of that state or county, you won't be able to have your abortion paid for at all.

So basically, a woman must have at least $2,000 in her savings to have an abortion, if she is in a state with severe legislation and requires travel and time off work to have the abortion. Poor women who are living paycheck to paycheck or are on welfare don't even have this amount.

I actually checked to see how expensive a 3rd trimester abortion is, apparently it's like $25,000 or something. Who the fuck can afford that?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23536110 - 08/12/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're doing it at the state level by shutting down state-funded abortion clinics. Legally speaking, a woman's right to an abortion is as well-protected as ever. But in practical terms, they are insidiously chipping away at provisions for that right in hope of rendering it meaningless.





are they state run abortion clinics?

no? so they're privately run abortion clinics... so you're all about some corporate
welfare then, should the states give a few billion to Haliburton, Lockheed and The
Acme Anvil Safe and Bomb company?


so republicans on a federal level are doing nothing about abortion and yet the big
hoopla about these federal elections seem to center around abortion, a non issue
that liberals like to manipulate their ignorant cult with


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536118 - 08/12/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where they can't be checked by popular outrage.




Yes, instead they will pass legislation that for example, limits the number of abortion clinics to only 2 or 3 within the entire state





who will do this and can you show us that legislation


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536147 - 08/12/16 08:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Didn't they fucking shut the government down over it in 2011?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23536178 - 08/12/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Didn't they fucking shut the government down over it in 2011?




was Barack Obama on the unemployment line in 2011?


I though we were talking about abortion and how the republicans are cutting the
corporate welfare on the state level... who owns the abortion clinics that lost
the state funding? I bet it's the same folks making bank selling baby parts


it's crazy how some huge company makes billions and liberals dont balk when that
company doesnt pay taxes because they set themselves up an an NPO


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536229 - 08/12/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Damn dude you really do take the cake and then some. The problem is when those beliefs turn into legislation against women's bodies, which is wrong.





would you like to show us that legislation?

how about this, tell us why it's always a woman's choice and a man has no choice
in the birth of a child but he is required to support that child or go to jail if
he doesnt. wasnt it the woman's choice to have the child? shouldnt it be her
obligation to then care for the child?


Quote:

Are you're denying that its a part of the republican party's overall platform?




maybe you should show us on the GOP website where it's part of their official platform

you can also show us all the anti abortion legislation these elected officials in
washington have been introducing over the last 40 years


Quote:

I apologize for being snarky but its hard to take you seriously when you're advocating so hard for a party that nominated Donald Trump as their presidential candidate and also using the #notallrepublicans argument, it is weak.




lol... the republican party didnt want trump

you really are poorly informed



LOL I cant even..This is exactly what I'm talking about, you sir live in a bubble. I wave the white flag, enjoy your hard headed ways. I'm glad trump is the republican nominee, he's running the party into the ground. All the answers you want are literally a google search away. I'm not going to play the "who posts the most links game" with you. I hope you have a nice day.

:imout:




and you cant show me the legislation these republicans are pushing that would ban
abortion... please, burst my little bubble or all you're doing is talking shit
like every other liberal that parrots their favorite celebrity politician





But maybe I dont want to burst your little bubble :sadyes:
I'm not a liberal. You sound like a parrot from fox news.

Like I said I'm :outtahere:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23536255 - 08/12/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

so you still cant provide any links to this anti abortion legislation


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536265 - 08/12/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I dont want to, stop telling me what to do


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536307 - 08/12/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where they can't be checked by popular outrage.




Yes, instead they will pass legislation that for example, limits the number of abortion clinics to only 2 or 3 within the entire state





who will do this and can you show us that legislation




There's all types of sneaky regulation that would prevent a lot of people from having abortions, such as requirement of parental consent, in North Dakota for example abortion is illegal after only 6 weeks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_abortion_restrictions_in_the_United_States

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html


These are some very important statistics, of all pregnancies almost 20% ended in abortion, that could drastically affect a population: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-kansas


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23536316 - 08/12/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
I dont want to, stop telling me what to do





you mean to tell me you cant


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536377 - 08/12/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
They're not trying to pass anti-abortion legislation. She never said they were trying to pass anti-abortion legislation, it's your own childlike understanding of governance that you are arguing with.

The Republicans know they would lose any legislative battle regarding abortion, and that it would damage them in the elections. They are attempting (and in many cases succeeding) to scuttle laws that protect abortion rights through judicial activism, where they can't be checked by popular outrage.




Yes, instead they will pass legislation that for example, limits the number of abortion clinics to only 2 or 3 within the entire state





who will do this and can you show us that legislation




There's all types of sneaky regulation that would prevent a lot of people from having abortions, such as requirement of parental consent, in North Dakota for example abortion is illegal after only 6 weeks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_abortion_restrictions_in_the_United_States





a wikipedia article citing a couple of ultra progressive magazines as some kind of
evidence and then citing legislation as a result of criminal activity and
additional laws that make sure that abortions are safe. that people arent dying...
so I'm guessing that you want the back alley abortion clinics at dirt cheap rate,
maybe that's what all progressives want. dont you think safety should be a concern

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html





none of these restrictions outlaws abortion, it just sets time limits, what this
thread was started over, what should the term limit be if in fact there should
be one.


Quote:

These are some very important statistics, of all pregnancies almost 20% ended in abortion, that could drastically affect a population: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-kansas




these statistics arent really anything, a 4% decline in abortion clinics is pretty
much all it says and none of these so called restrictions are from the government,
they're from insurance companies and the information is covering only one state
while it keeps tossing in figures on a national level. that's manipulation and
given that the numbers are compiled from sources seeking to increase their
funding it's certainly going to look bleaker than it really is and it doesnt look
all that bad



now, once more. can you show me this legislation that democrats keep claiming is there


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536393 - 08/12/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I said that a fertelized egg having ts own dna and being a human in deelopment made it a human





an unfertilized egg has it's own DNA, are menstruation cycles also murder?



It has half the dna of a human.
people go from understandable points, to 'fuck babies'. It would be a bit hilarious if not so gross


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536414 - 08/12/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
a wikipedia article citing a couple of ultra progressive magazines as some kind of
evidence and then citing legislation as a result of criminal activity and
additional laws that make sure that abortions are safe. that people arent dying...
so I'm guessing that you want the back alley abortion clinics at dirt cheap rate,
maybe that's what all progressives want. dont you think safety should be a concern





The types of regulations that were done in states such as Kansas, required the clinics to remodel everything from door openings to the sizes of closets, they must also add extra bathrooms and expand their waiting lobbies. They also required the clinics have emergency hospital facilities on location which costs millions of dollars to set up. They were also only given a 90-120 day deadline to complete all of this, failure to do so would result in clinic closure.

Bear in mind that other surgical centers were not targeted, these were specifically made to put abortion providers out of business. That's why there's only three left in the state now.

Quote:

none of these restrictions outlaws abortion, it just sets time limits, what this
thread was started over, what should the term limit be if in fact there should
be one.




None. Because as I said, a lot of women don't find out until the 3rd trimester about physical or mental abnormalities, and therefore there shouldn't be any time limit. Furthermore, insurance should cover abortion, and Medicare and local medical insurance systems should fully cover abortion for low-income women. Otherwise who can afford a $25,000 procedure?


Quote:


these statistics arent really anything, a 4% decline in abortion clinics is pretty
much all it says and none of these so called restrictions are from the government,
they're from insurance companies and the information is covering only one state
while it keeps tossing in figures on a national level. that's manipulation and
given that the numbers are compiled from sources seeking to increase their
funding it's certainly going to look bleaker than it really is and it doesnt look
all that bad




Kansas actually had a 41% decrease in abortion. The reason for that is because of organizations like Operation Rescue that have worked to fight for legislation that would close all sorts of abortion clinics. This is from their own site: http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/dramatic-41-abortion-drop-in-kansas-reveals-seven-trends/


Edited by Crystal G (08/12/16 10:37 PM)


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23536415 - 08/12/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
an unfertilized egg has it's own DNA, are menstruation cycles also murder?



It has half the dna of a human.






I think you need to show us proof of that


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536425 - 08/12/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

isnt that how it works? half the dna from the mother and half from the father


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536451 - 08/12/16 10:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
isnt that how it works? half the dna from the mother and half from the father




LOL


Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
an unfertilized egg has it's own DNA, are menstruation cycles also murder?



It has half the dna of a human.






This is what we're dealing with, folks. :lol:

Somebody needs to go back to bio and learn what DNA is.





Good one Pris, I didn't even catch that at first


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536467 - 08/12/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
a wikipedia article citing a couple of ultra progressive magazines as some kind of
evidence and then citing legislation as a result of criminal activity and
additional laws that make sure that abortions are safe. that people arent dying...
so I'm guessing that you want the back alley abortion clinics at dirt cheap rate,
maybe that's what all progressives want. dont you think safety should be a concern





The types of regulations that were done in states such as Kansas, required the clinics to remodel everything from door openings to the sizes of closets, they must also add extra bathrooms and expand their waiting lobbies. They also required the clinics have emergency hospital facilities on location which costs millions of dollars to set up. They were also only given a 90-120 day deadline to complete all of this, failure to do so would result in clinic closure.

Bear in mind that other surgical centers were not targeted, these were specifically made to put abortion providers out of business. That's why there's only three left in the state now.





other surgical centers are regulated heavily, in one instance in texas it required
doctors providing abortions to have hospital admitting privileges, and that they
meet the regulations of other ambulatory surgical centers... was this restricting
access to abortions? were they wrong to require this? should they not be concerned
about the safety of the patient?


Wisconsin also has a law requiring abortion providers to have hospital admitting
privileges, again, is this restricting the access to abortions or is it requiring
doctors to act responsibly.

maybe you'd like to ignore the reason for many of these regulations and claim
they're an attack on abortion clinics when in reality they're an attempt to curb
this kind of shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell

hundreds of women have died as a result of abortions, maybe you feel banks should
be heavily regulated but abortion clinics can be run from a van in a walmart
parking lot because it's easier access. why shouldnt abortion doctors be required
to have the same regulations as other outpatient surgeries



Quote:


Kansas actually had a 41% decrease in abortion. The reason for that is because of organizations like Operation Rescue that have worked to fight for legislation that would close all sorts of abortion clinics. This is from their own site: http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/dramatic-41-abortion-drop-in-kansas-reveals-seven-trends/





exactly what legislation are they fighting, government funds not going to abortion
clinics? once more, I would like to ask., are these abortion clinics public or
private entities?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536474 - 08/12/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The point is, its insane to expect one to save evry cell to clone. That isnt practical. Thats like the argument people use against vegans, that even if you eat grains, insets die. there is no karma free way, but emptying out an occupied womb is a pretty firm line.

my friend misinfomed me hen, despite all his schooling


--------------------


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536475 - 08/12/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
isnt that how it works? half the dna from the mother and half from the father




LOL


Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
an unfertilized egg has it's own DNA, are menstruation cycles also murder?



It has half the dna of a human.






This is what we're dealing with, folks. :lol:

Somebody needs to go back to bio and learn what DNA is.





Good one Pris, I didn't even catch that at first





shut up murderer. I know you also eat babies for breakfast with your bacon and toast


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23536482 - 08/12/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The point is, its insane to expect one to save evry cell to clone. That isnt practical. Thats like the argument people use against vegans, that even if you eat grains, insets die. there is no karma free way, but emptying out an occupied womb is a pretty firm line.

my friend misinfomed me hen, despite all his schooling





seems he may not have been home schooled, possibly basement schooling

with the janitor

who was his mother


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536511 - 08/12/16 10:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
maybe you'd like to ignore the reason for many of these regulations and claim
they're an attack on abortion clinics when in reality they're an attempt to curb
this kind of shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell

hundreds of women have died as a result of abortions, maybe you feel banks should
be heavily regulated but abortion clinics can be run from a van in a walmart
parking lot because it's easier access. why shouldnt abortion doctors be required
to have the same regulations as other outpatient surgeries




It sounds like this guy was doing everything illegally. AFAIK there is already regulation against using unsterile or unsafe equipment for surgical procedures, and any medical center would get shut down if it was covered in feces and bugs like his was. Hiring fake doctors and fake medical staff like he was is already illegal under existing laws.

The fact that the emergency exits were padlocked alone is enough of a reason to get a building shut down, regardless of whether it's a medical facility or not. So the extra regulation is not necessary.

Probably none of his patients ratted him out because he was performing illegal abortions. In the state of Pennsylvania abortion is not legal after 12 weeks, so almost all the women seeing him were second or third trimester. If these abortions were legal then perhaps he would have been reported sooner.




Quote:

Fraudulent recording of gestational age and training of staff to manipulate ultrasound in a way that would match the stated number of weeks;[66]




Wow, this is very very interesting though, I had no idea you could do that.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536513 - 08/12/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The point is, its insane to expect one to save evry cell to clone. That isnt practical. Thats like the argument people use against vegans, that even if you eat grains, insets die. there is no karma free way, but emptying out an occupied womb is a pretty firm line.

my friend misinfomed me hen, despite all his schooling





seems he may not have been home schooled, possibly basement schooling

with the janitor

who was his mother




:lolsy:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536543 - 08/12/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
maybe you'd like to ignore the reason for many of these regulations and claim
they're an attack on abortion clinics when in reality they're an attempt to curb
this kind of shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell

hundreds of women have died as a result of abortions, maybe you feel banks should
be heavily regulated but abortion clinics can be run from a van in a walmart
parking lot because it's easier access. why shouldnt abortion doctors be required
to have the same regulations as other outpatient surgeries




It sounds like this guy was doing everything illegally. AFAIK there is already regulation against using unsterile or unsafe equipment for surgical procedures, and any medical center would get shut down if it was covered in feces and bugs like his was. Hiring fake doctors and fake medical staff like he was is already illegal under existing laws.





he's certainly someone that stands out in his practices but according to Think
Progress, 47,000 women die each year from unsafe abortion practices and even
they suggest contraceptives over abortion




Quote:

The fact that the emergency exits were padlocked alone is enough of a reason to get a building shut down, regardless of whether it's a medical facility or not. So the extra regulation is not necessary.





for some reason I figure there may be regulations on something like that, it's a
shame that no one was inspecting the place for unsafe conditions, I bet of they
passed a law about patient safety...


Quote:

Quote:

Fraudulent recording of gestational age and training of staff to manipulate ultrasound in a way that would match the stated number of weeks;[66]




Wow, this is very very interesting though, I had no idea you could do that.




anything can be altered


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23536548 - 08/12/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You guys are way too predictable (I mean that only in a warm and friendly way, BTW).


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23536551 - 08/12/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
You guys are way too predictable (I mean that only in a warm and friendly way, BTW).





and just what did you predict?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536554 - 08/12/16 11:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...




--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23536559 - 08/12/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.

That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...








we're only on page 2


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536567 - 08/12/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Depends what you've changed the setting to, default (20) makes it 7. Mine is set at 100 too...

But you've already got the fireball thing going by the thread. Perhaps I should have mentioned the fireball.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23536578 - 08/12/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

balls on fire... you should see a doctor

just not this guy



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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536579 - 08/12/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
he's certainly someone that stands out in his practices but according to Think
Progress, 47,000 women die each year from unsafe abortion practices and even
they suggest contraceptives over abortion




Is it really from unsafe abortion practices in legal clinics? Or is it from women seeking out illegal clinics because it may not be legal in their area?

Because I just read the Think Progress article you are talking about, and it states 47,000 women in the developing world, not in the USA, are dying each year from abortions: https://thinkprogress.org/47-000-women-die-each-year-from-unsafe-abortions-d20eae29f11c#.bpxcnte6n

So they are talking about countries such as Brazil where abortion is illegal and women have no choice but to take herbs and medications purchased online on their own, or seek medical help from somebody who might not be a professional. In a country where poor people might only make $2 an hour, only rich women can afford to fly to another country to have a safe abortion.

Imagine if the numbers of death caused by abortion were that high in the USA, pro-lifers would have a field day with this information to get every clinic left and right shut down.

Any surgery comes with a risk of death, and childbirth has a significantly higher risk of death than abortion. Apparently the USA has the highest death rate among women giving birth, and part of the reason is because the USA performs the largest number of C-sections more than any other country. Around 303,000 women will die each year giving birth in the USA.

There's already plenty of regulation on any medical facility, hence why medical facilities have strict rules about where you can throw away biohazardous waste and sterilizing instruments.




Quote:


for some reason I figure there may be regulations on something like that, it's a
shame that no one was inspecting the place for unsafe conditions, I bet of they
passed a law about patient safety...




I know in California it is illegal for any building to have blocked emergency exits, this fact alone would have gotten them shut down. Chances are though, if they were operating an illegal clinic (which it sounds like this guy was), then there wouldn't have been anybody regulating the place, since they probably never registered paperwork for it.



Quote:


anything can be altered




Yes, anything can be altered with things like Photoshop now, but I'm assuming he was altering it simply by using the ultrasound machine itself. Maybe pressing the ultrasound scanning device lighter so there's less pressure or something? I don't know, but that is really interesting. I'd like to know how he did that.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
shut up murderer. I know you also eat babies for breakfast with your bacon and toast




I'll have you know I eat them like chicken wings :crankey:


Edited by Crystal G (08/12/16 11:50 PM)


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536649 - 08/12/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:

Any surgery comes with a risk of death, and childbirth has a significantly higher risk of death than abortion. Apparently the USA has the highest death rate among women giving birth, and part of the reason is because the USA performs the largest number of C-sections more than any other country. Around 303,000 women will die each year giving birth in the USA.





so all of these home birth that many nutters decide to have wouldnt be the cause,
the cesarean is the reason for the high rates of death in child birth


more would die if it wasnt for the fact that c-sections were preformed in
medically necessary cases, they're the reason the birthing death rate has
been reduced as much as it has
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sections-rise-happen-medically/story?id=30228112

http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20140203/study-ties-home-births-to-higher-infant-death-rates#1



BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223



the paperwork could also have a lot to do with those increaased numbers
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/has-maternal-mortality-really-doubled-in-the-u-s/

Quote:


I know in California it is illegal for any building to have blocked emergency exits, this fact alone would have gotten them shut down. Chances are though, if they were operating an illegal clinic (which it sounds like this guy was), then there wouldn't have been anybody regulating the place, since they probably never registered paperwork for it.




you dont run a clinic for 20 years with complaints coming in all the time and have
it remain a secret especially when some of those complaints are hand delivered to
the state secretary of health by another physician. it was a licensed clinic up
until the point that his license was suspended in 2010. it's pretty apparent that
Pennsylvania is one of those states that's pretty lax in it's regulations which is
what created these unsafe and unsanitary environments and stressed the even
greater need for appropriate regulation and inspections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell#Known_prior_complaints


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23536714 - 08/13/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mick said:
I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.

My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.



Agreed, in certain circumstances. I still see nothing wrong in it. You are going to be an awesome parent though, and that would drastically change my POV if I got that far.





Thank you man I appreciate that. Even though Im hiding in the bathroom for 5 minutes just to have a break from the crying hehe


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536722 - 08/13/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so all of these home birth that many nutters decide to have wouldnt be the cause,
the cesarean is the reason for the high rates of death in child birth

more would die if it wasnt for the fact that c-sections were preformed in
medically necessary cases, they're the reason the birthing death rate has
been reduced as much as it has
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sections-rise-happen-medically/story?id=30228112
http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20140203/study-ties-home-births-to-higher-infant-death-rates#1




The USA performs C-section at twice the rate the World Health Organization recommends.

I don't believe in natural childbirth myself, I believe the reason epidurals and pain medicine exist to make women's lives easier, and therefore women should take advantage of it instead of listening to traditionalist nonsense. The idea that "you must go through the pain," and "women must suffer through the pain because these medicines are bad for the baby" is nonsense. I feel sorry for women who buy into this bullshit and are forced to endure through all that pain for nothing. My idea of a natural delivery is "no makeup." :lol:

And of course my friends who have chosen natural deliveries are pretty much borderline-retarded or batshit crazy. They're the types of people who refuse to get their children vaccinated because "the government is trying to mind control us with autism" and one mom has even gone so far as to swear to breastfeed her son until he's an adult. Like WTF how warped and off the deep end can you get?!?!? That kid is going to resent her so much when he grows up, either that or he will have the biggest mommy issues ever.

And the concept of a home birth can be particularly dangerous because women develop certain conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes which makes one more at risk for things like stroke and heart attack while pregnant. I don't think women with at-risk pregnancies should ever choose home delivery.

But, I still believe the USA performs C-sections at a rate far higher than natural delivery. Part of the reason for that is because with the privatized healthcare system, doctors can charge more for a major surgery. And there are organizations out there that have looked at when C-sections are performed, and they are most often performed just right before the physician is about to go to lunch or just before he is about to clock out. They were therefore insinuating that C-sections are often performed more for the doctor's convenience, rather than because of an imminent life and death situation.


Quote:

BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223




Sorry, I should have specified that the USA is #1 out of all other developed nations. I couldn't view the link you sourced though, survey after survey kept popping up with no way for me to close out of it to view the link.

Bear in mind that many other developed nations still do natural deliveries and very few C-sections. Almost everybody from my home country believes only in natural childbirths, quite many celebrities from there come to the USA to give birth so they can have a painless and medicated delivery.


Quote:


you dont run a clinic for 20 years with complaints coming in all the time and have
it remain a secret especially when some of those complaints are hand delivered to
the state secretary of health by another physician. it was a licensed clinic up
until the point that his license was suspended in 2010. it's pretty apparent that
Pennsylvania is one of those states that's pretty lax in it's regulations which is
what created these unsafe and unsanitary environments and stressed the even
greater need for appropriate regulation and inspections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell#Known_prior_complaints




Yeah, that makes sense. AFAIK back in the 90's when this guy was operating West Philly was a shithole, and Philadelphia was a ghetto with one of the highest murder rates in the entire country. I'm sure this guy was probably bribing officials that showed up at his doorstep, that's how he was able to remain in business for so long.


Edited by Crystal G (08/13/16 12:47 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536802 - 08/13/16 01:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
The USA performs C-section at twice the rate the World Health Organization recommends.




the WHO isnt delivering the kids so they dont know what circumstances surround the
birth, obesity is something the WHO is saying is an epidemic in the US and it's
one of the large factors in complicated pregnancies which could lead to c-sections




Quote:

I don't believe in natural childbirth myself, I believe the reason epidurals and pain medicine exist to make women's lives easier, and therefore women should take advantage of it instead of listening to traditionalist nonsense. The idea that "you must go through the pain," and "women must suffer through the pain because these medicines are bad for the baby" is nonsense. I feel sorry for women who buy into this bullshit and are forced to endure through all that pain for nothing. My idea of a natural delivery is "no makeup." :lol:





there's a huge difference in what you're trying to describe and what I said, home
birth and natural child birth are 2 entirely different critters unless you want to
call natural child birth the paleo birth where you squirt out a kid while skinning
a mastodon


home birthing is of course typically done in the home, sometimes in the confines
of a bed, sometimes in an inflatable 'birthing pool', it's done under the
supervision of a midwife, not a doctor and not in a hospital where epidurals are
an option you can use or refuse. you're dealing with birth the way it was 200
years ago in the US when neonatal and maternal death rates were far higher. these
are nutters that believe that they can draw all the nutrients they need from the
sun, that they draw energy from the earth and take essential oils and other
homeopathy as actual medicine. they're unlikely to have proper medical care during
their pregnancy such as visits to an obstetrician and even pre natal vitamins,
which BTW, even flintstones chewables are a recommendation from doctors for women
that cant take the horse pills. they frequently use midwives who's only
qualifications are that they created a facebook page and have had 14 kids of their
own by 37 different fathers these are women that have probably never washed
their cooch and only got pregnant because the flies carried the spunk off the sock
their boyfriend masturbated into up to her vagina

are you starting to get the picture of what the deference is between natural child
birth and the home child birth that has been part of what's responsible for the
higher mortality rates


Quote:

But, I still believe the USA performs C-sections at a rate far higher than natural delivery. Part of the reason for that is because with the privatized healthcare system, doctors can charge more for a major surgery. And there are organizations out there that have looked at when C-sections are performed, and they are most often performed just right before the physician is about to go to lunch or just before he is about to clock out. They were therefore insinuating that C-sections are often performed more for the doctor's convenience, rather than because of an imminent life and death situation.




doctards and insurance companies dont force cesareans on people but it has become
an elective method in which women have the choice, yes, it's the woman's choice
for the c-section because their vanity wont allow them to have a stretched out
vag, surely you arent advocating we take the choice away from women, that would
imply that they're incapable of making their own decisions regarding their
reproductive health


Quote:

Quote:

BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223




Sorry, I should have specified that the USA is #1 out of all other developed nations. I couldn't view the link you sourced though, survey after survey kept popping up with no way for me to close out of it to view the link.




why do liberals want to insist on this 'out of the western nations' bullshit for
comparative purposes, it's horse shit because by the measure of developed nations
and western nations there's about 6 that qualify

guess what.... Belarus, the last dictatorship of the former soviet union fares
better then nearly all of the world when it comes to low maternal mortality and
belarus, Estonia is also not a developed nation and they're the best when it comes
to this shit so what's japan's excuse for such a high maternal mortality rate in
relation to these two primitive countries

Quote:

Bear in mind that many other developed nations still do natural deliveries and very few C-sections.





bear in mind that the excess of c-sections has not increased the number of deaths
during child birth, I dont have any clue where you'd come up with this shit,
probably some retarded blog like Jezebel where free bleeders proclaim that tampons
and bras were inventions made to rape and subjugate women

http://www.babycenter.com/0_elective-c-section_1498696.bc


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23536822 - 08/13/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
there's a huge difference in what you're trying to describe and what I said, home
birth and natural child birth are 2 entirely different critters unless you want to
call natural child birth the paleo birth where you squirt out a kid while skinning
a mastodon




lol

Well, usually all home births are natural. But not all natural births are done at home.

Quote:

home birthing is of course typically done in the home, sometimes in the confines
of a bed, sometimes in an inflatable 'birthing pool', it's done under the
supervision of a midwife, not a doctor and not in a hospital where epidurals are
an option you can use or refuse. you're dealing with birth the way it was 200
years ago in the US when neonatal and maternal death rates were far higher. these
are nutters that believe that they can draw all the nutrients they need from the
sun, that they draw energy from the earth and take essential oils and other
homeopathy as actual medicine. they're unlikely to have proper medical care during
their pregnancy such as visits to an obstetrician and even pre natal vitamins,
which BTW, even flintstones chewables are a recommendation from doctors for women
that cant take the horse pills. they frequently use midwives who's only
qualifications are that they created a facebook page and have had 14 kids of their
own by 37 different fathers these are women that have probably never washed
their cooch and only got pregnant because the flies carried the spunk off the sock
their boyfriend masturbated into up to her vagina




LOL sounds exactly like my friend who believes the government is trying to poison us with autism in the form of vaccines, that sunblock is what causes skin cancer not UV rays, oh and she is planning to breastfeed her son until he's an adult because she believes it will make him superhuman

Also how do you have 14 kids by 37 different fathers? :lol:


Quote:


doctards and insurance companies dont force cesareans on people but it has become
an elective method in which women have the choice, yes, it's the woman's choice
for the c-section because their vanity wont allow them to have a stretched out
vag, surely you arent advocating we take the choice away from women, that would
imply that they're incapable of making their own decisions regarding their
reproductive health




Wouldn't a more vain woman choose vaginal birth? Vagina size shrinks back to normal, but C-sections create scarring, and sometimes your abdominal muscles will never go back to the way they were before. My aunt had one, and she says ever since then her stomach has never been toned. She's skinny everywhere except her stomach, because her stomach muscles are always relaxed and never tense up.

I heard that women who have had previous C-sections will always have to have C-sections in the future, so perhaps women who have had them previously are simply planning when to get their next ones.


Quote:


why do liberals want to insist on this 'out of the western nations' bullshit for
comparative purposes, it's horse shit because by the measure of developed nations
and western nations there's about 6 that qualify




It's actually between 50 and 80, depending on whether you use the term developed or high-income. Countries such as Puerto Rico and Saudi Arabia and Andorra are included.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23536841 - 08/13/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Also how do you have 14 kids by 37 different fathers? :lol:





it's time to use your imagination


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23537340 - 08/13/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the reproductive cells have the dna of the parents. Its like skin cells, its an argument to  absurdity. If a human is in development, it is a human. a baby cant survive on its own. a three year old would die without people. all of the pro choice arguments are belittling snears,obscuring the issue, claiming science says something when i doesnt for their own benafit

like I said, no values anymore. Human life s now considered cheap unless its right in front of you because of some rtarded idea that high numbers make the individual lss important, or that we are bad and the ecosystem and nature are somehow not


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23537367 - 08/13/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Human life s now considered cheap unless its right in front of you because of some rtarded idea that high numbers make the individual lss important, or that we are bad and the ecosystem and nature are somehow not




dont care


life is cheap




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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23537389 - 08/13/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

that makes it look pretty special, since we may be the only life sustaining planet. we are looking and finding nothing.

we are the concresence, the raisin in the muffen

ya


terrence mckenna


so many years ago I heard that


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23537397 - 08/13/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
that makes it look pretty special, since we may be the only life sustaining planet.




lol... not even close


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23537407 - 08/13/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No evidence that there is more, just speculation.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23537665 - 08/13/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do you, like, actively avoid reading science news or something? Kepler has been abuzz with discoveries of earthlike planets since 2013. Dozens have been identified. The question now isn't "if", but "how".

Data of Potentially Habitable Worlds



:havesomescience:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23537714 - 08/13/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So far, earth like hasnt meant life. We have methods that could detect the presence of certain organic materials from light waves or something im sure. If we find life, it will be simple most likely. we still may not find it.

Unless you are to say that bacteria or some other primative thing compaires to the radure of humanity, which Id say is the fucking stupid self deprocating thing I expec from humans of my time, then we are still special.

I know they are lightyears away, and we would be seeing deep into the past, but we find nothing


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23537721 - 08/13/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
No evidence that there is more, just speculation.





I'm speculating just as you speculate that this is the only planet out
of hundreds of billions of planets that life developed on, it's a very
christian view on life in the universe.

can you possibly prove that there is no other life on other planets?


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23537722 - 08/13/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
the reproductive cells have the dna of the parents. Its like skin cells, its an argument to  absurdity. If a human is in development, it is a human. a baby cant survive on its own. a three year old would die without people. all of the pro choice arguments are belittling snears,obscuring the issue, claiming science says something when i doesnt for their own benafit

like I said, no values anymore. Human life s now considered cheap unless its right in front of you because of some rtarded idea that high numbers make the individual lss important, or that we are bad and the ecosystem and nature are somehow not



:archiebunker:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23537732 - 08/13/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
So far, earth like hasnt meant life. We have methods that could detect the presence of certain organic materials from light waves or something im sure.





now just what kind of equipment do we have that can detect carbon that's hundreds of
millions of miles from us through light waves?

Quote:

I know they are lightyears away, and we would be seeing deep into the past, but we find nothing




because we're not yet advanced enough in our technology to be able to see


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23537748 - 08/13/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You cant prove a negative
if i see evidence Ill change my mind
just because it intuitive that we arent alone doesnt make it so. alot of things are counterintuitive.

Id rather there be other life so humans could have another sentient creature to relate to.

they are about to put out that new unfolding telescope, so we will see what comes of that. They can determine alot from light. there re sure to be bioligical signatures in an atmosphere we are looking at that could tell us(since we see it, we can examine the light, as all materials have signatures)


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23537841 - 08/13/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I hadn't thought about it like that before always just thought late term abortions were wrong because how I picture it in my head. See I've become resentful of pro choice women saying that if you have a penis, then you should stay out of the debate altogether. Because what I hear is, you can side with pro choice women but not pro life women because not all women are of one mind on this issue, or this is a way of censoring or silencing some of their opposition. But Crystal shows us there is a unique perspective gained by those who are capable of getting knocked up.


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Edited by SoloTrip (08/13/16 12:30 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23537899 - 08/13/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No it should not be legal.

I think the question here is why the fuck would someone wait until the last trimester to kill it?
I can see killing babies in extreme situations but why wait?
I think if someone waits until the 2nd or 3rd trimester it shows they're mentally incompetent and should not be allowed to kill it.

There is no reason at all to kill a baby at 6 or 7 months if it's not killing the mother.
People that can't have kids ADOPT them SO why wait that long and then decide to kill it when someone else could take care of it for your lazy ass?

Then why not kill it at 1 year? I mean if we put it to sleep then fuck it right?
Hell, let's kill some 50 year old with mental disability because they're too much of a hassle.

Your kid gets hit by a car at 7 years old and becomes a burden, let's kill it!

I am not anti-abortion but waiting until it is that old is fucked up whether or not you drug it before killing it.

Ask yourself, how would you feel if your mother wanted to kill you because she didn't want to take care of you anymore?

EDIT: Missed a "r" on "Your"


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Edited by OfTheVoid46 (08/13/16 12:57 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: OfTheVoid46]
    #23537906 - 08/13/16 12:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

This also brings up the issue with adoption and how that shifts your irresponsible burdon onto everyone else


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23537998 - 08/13/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
the reproductive cells have the dna of the parents.




Yeah, and all my cells have the DNA of my parents. That includes my menstrual cycle.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: OfTheVoid46]
    #23538021 - 08/13/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OfTheVoid46 said:
No it should not be legal.

I think the question here is why the fuck would someone wait until the last trimester to kill it?
I can see killing babies in extreme situations but why wait?
I think if someone waits until the 2nd or 3rd trimester it shows they're mentally incompetent and should not be allowed to kill it.

There is no reason at all to kill a baby at 6 or 7 months if it's not killing the mother.
People that can't have kids ADOPT them SO why wait that long and then decide to kill it when someone else could take care of it for your lazy ass?

Then why not kill it at 1 year? I mean if we put it to sleep then fuck it right?
Hell, let's kill some 50 year old with mental disability because they're too much of a hassle.

Your kid gets hit by a car at 7 years old and becomes a burden, let's kill it!

I am not anti-abortion but waiting until it is that old is fucked up whether or not you drug it before killing it.

Ask yourself, how would you feel if your mother wanted to kill you because she didn't want to take care of you anymore?

EDIT: Missed a "r" on "Your"




If you read through the thread, you would have noticed it's because a lot of women don't find out their baby will be severely retarded or handicapped until the 2nd or 3rd trimester. Most of the women who are aborting in the 3rd trimester is because they found out their baby wouldn't walk or talk, would be in horrible pain, and might not survive longer than a few years. Therefore, 3rd trimester abortion should be legal everywhere.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538023 - 08/13/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
This also brings up the issue with adoption and how that shifts your irresponsible burdon onto everyone else




So you're totally against abortion but also vehemently against adoption, you're a real winner aren't you :facepalm:


Edited by Crystal G (08/13/16 01:59 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23538056 - 08/13/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Liberals, always twisting words. A human in development, with its on dna, even if not in the asthetically obvious shape of a human is still a human.

if there are no moral problems with killing babies in the womb, then maybe we should do something absurde like have forced abortions in people who are poor or from overpopulated places. Oh, the freedom of the mother, right. That growing thing in her womb is just a bundel of cells(as we all are)

Im not totally against adoption. People who have kids that they cant take care of are

-shit-

the parents should still have to pay or some other form of punitive measurements would be taken


you are coming from the assumption that being shit is unavoidable, and this way of thinking normalized being a wlking lump of burdonsome shit that rubbs its shit streaks over society.

I go back to my firs point. Unless you are raped, female, you made all the choices that lead to where things eventually go. You could take extensive measures, you could not have sex, but they dont, then they caim men have no rights to 'their body'

well, I got news for you. Half of that baby is mine. Id say that the man is even justified to get physical in threat and action to protect their unborn baby, since the law offers no recourse


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/13/16 02:02 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538101 - 08/13/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You should actually read adoption profiles online, many families are grateful to the mother for making a sacrifice and selflessly giving her baby up, they view it as a gift, not a burden like you do. Newborn babies are almost always snatched up in foster care, the ones who remain in the system are the ones who are older or have mental or physical problems.

I think abortion is actually a very natural phenomenon that stems from our most basic primal urges. If you look in the wild, animals actually kill their own young or reject it sometimes, especially if the specimen is weaker or disfigured or not up to their standards.

Human parents do this too. Before the days of ultrasound and fetal diagnosis, many parents who saw their disfigured or handicapped kids would be horrified, and would reject it, claiming it was the spawn of satan.

The body is also excellent at self-aborting. Approximately 1/3rd of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many times it is because of chromosomal abnormalities, and the body tends to be very good at detecting problems and getting rid of the fetus on its own.

Making parents pay to put their kids up for adoption is a stupid idea, this would just cause more parents to seek abortion or get rid of the kids themselves. There's a reason more and more states are developing "safe haven" laws, where you can drop your baby off at a hospital or fire department or police agency and run away without even leaving your name, it is to prevent parents from taking drastic measures like killing their babies or leaving them in dumpsters. This would also result in more poor parents neglecting their kids or not feeding them properly, because they didn't want to pay the cost for an adoption.

Very stupid idea, it's obvious you aren't concerned about child's safety or welfare.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I go back to my firs point. Unless you are raped, female, you made all the choices that lead to where things eventually go. You could take extensive measures, you could not have sex, but they dont, then they caim men have no rights to 'their body'




So basically you just want to punish people who have sex. I mean really, that's what it's all about. "You made the choice, so you can't abort." Well I have news for you, plenty of people have sex without the desire to carry offspring. Sex is also for enjoyment, is it not just to procreate anymore.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23538159 - 08/13/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Most children go unadopted. Those who put more chikldren into the system burdon society

Murder is a natural phenomenon too. We dont let people go around killoing each other though.

So some people in the past who didnt know anything kiled their deformed children for possibly stupid reasons and that makes that form of eugenics alright? The only ugenics Im for is where people pick mates that work and have kids with people who arent terrible

I have to adress this, as your last three points were the same. Yes, nature is cruel. People can be cruel. That doesnt mean society should condone things that are

safe haven laws are just another way to give garbage people a way out of responsibiluity. Not every child is going to have a loving home. I should be expensive, and if you a have a kid that you cant afford, it should be painful. You didnt have the resources, and resources are not unlimited

These are all state funded things. It is not the place of the state to make sure every child is provided with parents. Its an overstep. That doesnt matter though, socialism doesnt bother delinquents

No. You kep twisting my words and I find it annoying. Having sex doesnt create a baby, nt taking precautions does. You dont know what personal responsibility is, do you? all choices are risks and all risks have consequences. Some children have bad parents and there isnt any institution big enough to fix that anywhere, and it isnt the job of the government


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Re: Late-Term (AKA "Partial Birth") Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538177 - 08/13/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
safe haven laws are just another way to give garbage people a way out of responsibiluity. Not every child is going to have a loving home. I should be expensive, and if you a have a kid that you cant afford, it should be painful. You didnt have the resources, and resources are not unlimited




Why should you force people to have children they can't afford, children that they don't want, or children that they refuse or can't take responsibility for? That's just a recipe for disaster.

Quote:

These are all state funded things. It is not the place of the state to make sure every child is provided with parents. Its an overstep. That doesnt matter though, socialism doesnt bother delinquents




It is also not the place of the state to say what mothers do with their bodies. If somebody is going to die without my kidneys or without a blood donation, you cannot legally force me to donate my kidneys or blood to this person. If they say my baby is going to die if I deliver vaginally, you cannot force me to have a C-section. Ergo, you cannot force me to host life in my womb if I do not wish to host it.

Quote:

No. You kep twisting my words and I find it annoying. Having sex doesnt create a baby, nt taking precautions does. You dont know what personal responsibility is, do you? all choices are risks and all risks have consequences. Some children have bad parents and there isnt any institution big enough to fix that anywhere, and it isnt the job of the government




Yes, and what makes you think that abortion or adoption is not a responsible choice? Somebody has thought about the consequences and all the pro's and cons, and paid a couple thousand dollars to have an abortion. Seems like a responsible way to handle an unwanted pregnancy outcome. It would be much more irresponsible to have children you can't afford or don't want or can't take care of.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: Crystal G]
    #23538223 - 08/13/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

They were not forced to have sex. They were not forced to to avoid precautions. Most people in America know what sex leads to, even children. Because the baby is unanted, that  means that the burdon must be put on others? By protecting the child you disincentivise worrying about th consequences. They still should, they are still bad consequences, but not enough.

That is the most selfish, disgusting rhetoric. The baby didnt choose to be hooked up to you, and the blood becomes theis too. It isnt simply 'your' blood and kidneys. You opened your leggs, you take the consequences.
Yes they should force a c-section if a baby is about to be born and will live if delivered with one.

They obviously didnt think if they got pregnate. This whole line of thinking childish and selfish. I woldnt respect an adult as an adult who thinks in such terms about human life and dignity. If you want to treat your body like trash, do so. No matter what twisted logic you use, its still a genetically viable person that you could test for their own unique dna sequence. A fertalized egg isnt dropps of blood dripping to the floor.

If you hook yourself up to someone to give them life support, somehow, you cant just revoke that. That isnt how contracts and obligations work. You cant opt out retroactivly from an agreement. If I had a twin and we shared a liverf and I got the better portion, and drank enough to kill or harm him, i would be responsible and should be charged

Id argue by spreading your leggs you should be considered to know the consequences.

adoption is the least of my worries. Misstakes get made, bbut they shouldnt be normal and acepted as inevitable.


Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/13/16 03:09 PM)


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538242 - 08/13/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

people dont even except developing people as themselves. I hear people who hate kids bitch all the time, like, wow, you hate the meaning of life(not you, hypathetical people i see).

Im being too mean. his gets me a bit sad though. culture turning nihalistic


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538340 - 08/13/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
They were not forced to have sex. They were not forced to to avoid precautions. Most people in America know what sex leads to, even children. Because the baby is unanted, that  means that the burdon must be put on others? By protecting the child you disincentivise worrying about th consequences. They still should, they are still bad consequences, but not enough.




Nobody chooses or makes the choice to have a retarded or handicapped baby. That is simply luck, and has nothing to do with responsibility or choice.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: Crystal G]
    #23538350 - 08/13/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do handicapped people have a right to exist and to what extent? A high functioning downs getting abborted is differant then a baby missing importand functional parts beng aborted.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23538511 - 08/13/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Downs Syndrome can be detected in the first trimester nowadays, so almost nobody waits until the 3rd trimester to abort for Downs.


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Re: Late-Term (AKA [Re: Crystal G]
    #23538569 - 08/13/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Life begins at conception
Ferteization starts a human with its own dna on the path of life. You can detect arterial sclarosis before birth. The baby is literally already dieing, its already alive

I dont see any differance in killing at any stage. All the arguments for each stage are arbitrary except conception. The ideas of suffering are pointless. Killing something without pain doesnt mitigate the subversion of the will of the individual without justification

I used to be pro choice, but phylisophically, I cant be certain that a future isnt being taken.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23540260 - 08/14/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe you are right and I'm being too idealistic and impractical
Some of it is emotional backlash to the rampent dead baby talk. Where I'm from is pretty liberal, so I hear it now and ten.
Im being a jerk, sorry


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23540289 - 08/14/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Can we all get along... :lol: ...you all are making a big deal over one issue in politics. Wasting precious time and energy. You could be using that time on life man! :awedance:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: The Cheshire Cat]
    #23540293 - 08/14/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The shroomery is life


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23540299 - 08/14/16 10:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The meaning of life is... well damn it:mad2:... i don't wanna say something stupid that makes sense while high, but afterwards makes no sense.:lol:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: The Cheshire Cat] * 1
    #23540944 - 08/14/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

42


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541074 - 08/14/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541151 - 08/14/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Simple according to his belief obviously. I get it, you are very concerned with "murder" of a group of cells you consider a valid human life at the point of conception. Some people don't and believe scientific facts. It's that simple.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541158 - 08/14/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I nominate Ann Coulter :dawerp:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541160 - 08/14/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Did you not watch the video? Whden does a human life begin? we are all 'bundles of cells' this is just a tactic to belittle the human life

Ive made clear over and over that murder is a legal term and that homocide is more accurate sice it isnt a legal matter.

You and those who think like yo change the defenition of what is a human for conveniance

You keep toutinsg science, but there isnt a moment besides when the egg is fertelized that is sigificant enough to use as the moment of life. The idea that viability outside the womb determines it is nonsense, since by that logic, someone on life support or who is terribly injured is not a human.


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/14/16 03:03 PM)


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541233 - 08/14/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Marula and blastocysts. Nothing until week 5.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541247 - 08/14/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
42



:lol:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: The Cheshire Cat]
    #23541257 - 08/14/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was wondering if someone would catch that.:grin:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541280 - 08/14/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A blastocist is literally, something
wow
fucking retarded, to defend your relabeling and killing of humans to suit your conveniance.

either a developing human in the womb is a human, in which case there is no justification for killing it, or it is not. It starts developing at conception. Every point after tat that liberals say science points to are arbetrary and based on shape(because liberals are emotional morons), and nerves, because they have the stupid presumption this is about pain.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541288 - 08/14/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There is no brain or nervous system until a certain point. I respect your passion on the subject, but science facts are facts. I can detach emotion from this due to these facts. It will help me as a nurse, but I can be very empathetic and sympathetic as well. I'm not trying to change your mind, I obviously can't. I enjoy reading some of the responses.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541289 - 08/14/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The blastocyst is just an anus that hasn't grown a person yet


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #23541306 - 08/14/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A state many never grow past.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #23541312 - 08/14/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
The blastocyst is just an anus that hasn't grown a person yet



:aliceshocker:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Revok]
    #23541319 - 08/14/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



:havesomescience:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23541331 - 08/14/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know why but everytime i see you on these shroomery forums, you are always butthurt. My friend just roll up some weed and relax.
:lol:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541336 - 08/14/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

it has nothing to do with compassion. You of couse bring up your detatchment as though it is some vrtue bestowing the high ground of logic upon you. Then you make me reiderate points

I have said, over and over, it isnt about the 'nerves' or suffering. The way you say 'science' is also completely wrong. science is a process of study. The differant stages of development can be shown, but they start somewhere. Where they start is fertelization, the day your dna comes into existance

The idea that arms and leggs, or nerve cells define you is completely backwards. A painless death is still killing.

This will all go past you and you will make n ill informed vagurie about 'science', because being pro abortion is really just being anto life and pro 'stupid sluts`

maybe Id be ok with it if they took the whole womb and barred these women from ever having charge of a kid again. Even looking at a child.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: The Cheshire Cat]
    #23541337 - 08/14/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

SPC does seem a bit stressed when discussing/arguing/debating this.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541356 - 08/14/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the fact people see others that are also people as disposible based on such poorly thought ideas stresses me. Life isnt cheap. Its just secuar materialism, seeing things as matter and only the suffering they percieve can be felt as important, rather then valuing the autonomy and complexity of individuals


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541371 - 08/14/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

In that respect life is all about perception to you. Not facts.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541394 - 08/14/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

life isnt 'about' anything.

what you said literally has no meaning. Im literally saying human life starts where it begins, you are saying its just cells, so therefor it isnt a human and it has no significance. You could choose when it got a nervous system, srms and leggs, that is all very arbitrary and misses the point.

Humans are the only species capable of conceptualizing. we talk within our mind allowing us to percieve our identity. Animals may have personality variations, but not personalities. I understand things happen, but going into a medical setting and purposefully terminating a life is truely a deep injustice.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541400 - 08/14/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

to you, in your opinion.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541419 - 08/14/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

what does that mean? What is just my opinion? are you just trying to post tautologies that cant be reasoned with?
no, I dont thing a zygote feels pain. Abortion isnt about womens health

At conception, a novel set of dna is created. that is as definitive as you can get.
what does having a nervous system have to do with anything? I said before, pain isnt important, pain is meaningless just like happyness. That is just yur arbitrary and nt very solid line

just like the 'bundel of cells' 'argument', which as I said, is just another way for people like you to define who has rights for your conveniance


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541437 - 08/14/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

got it.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23541444 - 08/14/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:


:havesomescience:




Are you flirting with me?

That is actually how I pictures many posters looking like , but with thumbs.


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23541462 - 08/14/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
what does that mean? What is just my opinion? are you just trying to post tautologies that cant be reasoned with?
no, I dont thing a zygote feels pain. Abortion isnt about womens health

At conception, a novel set of dna is created. that is as definitive as you can get.
what does having a nervous system have to do with anything? I said before, pain isnt important, pain is meaningless just like happyness. That is just yur arbitrary and nt very solid line

just like the 'bundel of cells' 'argument', which as I said, is just another way for people like you to define who has rights for your conveniance



LOL, at "people like you". I'm not attacking you, I said that before, yet you are attacking me.:shrug:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23541511 - 08/14/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ya, Im sorry. I get grouchy
you did say you had three abortions though


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23541624 - 08/14/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



Give em here


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 2
    #23541630 - 08/14/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:


:havesomescience:





it's titties and eyeballs


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23542050 - 08/14/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:thataintright: :yeahthatsfunny:


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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23543240 - 08/15/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Ya, Im sorry. I get grouchy
you did say you had three abortions though



3, that I know of from 3 different women. Your point? I am not bothered by it that much.
I know the life of that child would have been disastrous, or even worse the mother and child died trying to just be born. It was agreed upon by the parents as well as the woman.

One of them was an insulin dependent diabetic that had been shooting since about 6 years old, so if she were to try and carry a baby to full term it could have killed her and the baby, and that was one of the reasons why WE decided to terminate. Planned parenthood by the way (hope this doesn't open up another hot button issue for you, they literally saved both our lives).
I saw her on facebook a couple years ago and she had her sister or some other woman be a host for her eggs and the fathers sperm so she could have children. Apparently she wanted them very badly but knew not to carry them in her womb.

Jokeshopbeard had it right with his answer at the beginning of this thread, I should have just answered and left, LOL! I keep being redundant and you keep being redundant, the argument will never end. I got sucked into it, but I loooove to be sucked! LOL!:grin:


Edited by tyrannicalrex (08/15/16 09:07 AM)


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