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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23536551 - 08/12/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jokeshopbeard said: You guys are way too predictable (I mean that only in a warm and friendly way, BTW).
and just what did you predict?
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23536554 - 08/12/16 11:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jokeshopbeard said: Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.
That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23536559 - 08/12/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: Yes, yes, and double fucking yes.
That's the extent of my input on this conversation cause all you Americans are gonna get involved and turn this into a 30 page extravaganza now...
we're only on page 2
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23536567 - 08/12/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Depends what you've changed the setting to, default (20) makes it 7. Mine is set at 100 too...
But you've already got the fireball thing going by the thread. Perhaps I should have mentioned the fireball.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23536578 - 08/12/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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balls on fire... you should see a doctor
just not this guy
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Crystal G



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23536579 - 08/12/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: he's certainly someone that stands out in his practices but according to Think Progress, 47,000 women die each year from unsafe abortion practices and even they suggest contraceptives over abortion
Is it really from unsafe abortion practices in legal clinics? Or is it from women seeking out illegal clinics because it may not be legal in their area?
Because I just read the Think Progress article you are talking about, and it states 47,000 women in the developing world, not in the USA, are dying each year from abortions: https://thinkprogress.org/47-000-women-die-each-year-from-unsafe-abortions-d20eae29f11c#.bpxcnte6n
So they are talking about countries such as Brazil where abortion is illegal and women have no choice but to take herbs and medications purchased online on their own, or seek medical help from somebody who might not be a professional. In a country where poor people might only make $2 an hour, only rich women can afford to fly to another country to have a safe abortion.
Imagine if the numbers of death caused by abortion were that high in the USA, pro-lifers would have a field day with this information to get every clinic left and right shut down.
Any surgery comes with a risk of death, and childbirth has a significantly higher risk of death than abortion. Apparently the USA has the highest death rate among women giving birth, and part of the reason is because the USA performs the largest number of C-sections more than any other country. Around 303,000 women will die each year giving birth in the USA.
There's already plenty of regulation on any medical facility, hence why medical facilities have strict rules about where you can throw away biohazardous waste and sterilizing instruments.
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for some reason I figure there may be regulations on something like that, it's a shame that no one was inspecting the place for unsafe conditions, I bet of they passed a law about patient safety...
I know in California it is illegal for any building to have blocked emergency exits, this fact alone would have gotten them shut down. Chances are though, if they were operating an illegal clinic (which it sounds like this guy was), then there wouldn't have been anybody regulating the place, since they probably never registered paperwork for it.
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anything can be altered
Yes, anything can be altered with things like Photoshop now, but I'm assuming he was altering it simply by using the ultrasound machine itself. Maybe pressing the ultrasound scanning device lighter so there's less pressure or something? I don't know, but that is really interesting. I'd like to know how he did that.
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Prisoner#1 said: shut up murderer. I know you also eat babies for breakfast with your bacon and toast
I'll have you know I eat them like chicken wings
Edited by Crystal G (08/12/16 11:50 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
#23536649 - 08/12/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Any surgery comes with a risk of death, and childbirth has a significantly higher risk of death than abortion. Apparently the USA has the highest death rate among women giving birth, and part of the reason is because the USA performs the largest number of C-sections more than any other country. Around 303,000 women will die each year giving birth in the USA.
so all of these home birth that many nutters decide to have wouldnt be the cause, the cesarean is the reason for the high rates of death in child birth
more would die if it wasnt for the fact that c-sections were preformed in medically necessary cases, they're the reason the birthing death rate has been reduced as much as it has http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sections-rise-happen-medically/story?id=30228112
http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20140203/study-ties-home-births-to-higher-infant-death-rates#1
BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223
the paperwork could also have a lot to do with those increaased numbers http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/has-maternal-mortality-really-doubled-in-the-u-s/
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I know in California it is illegal for any building to have blocked emergency exits, this fact alone would have gotten them shut down. Chances are though, if they were operating an illegal clinic (which it sounds like this guy was), then there wouldn't have been anybody regulating the place, since they probably never registered paperwork for it.
you dont run a clinic for 20 years with complaints coming in all the time and have it remain a secret especially when some of those complaints are hand delivered to the state secretary of health by another physician. it was a licensed clinic up until the point that his license was suspended in 2010. it's pretty apparent that Pennsylvania is one of those states that's pretty lax in it's regulations which is what created these unsafe and unsanitary environments and stressed the even greater need for appropriate regulation and inspections
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell#Known_prior_complaints
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ManianFH
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#23536714 - 08/13/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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mick said: I would vote no. But really I don't care what other people choose to do with thier bodies. They can deal with their choices when the time comes. But I do believe a baby is pretty much a life in the womb, and I personally wouldn't terminate unless my wife's life was in danger, and as a result we had no other choice.
My viewpoint changed recently after seeing my baby on an ultrasound screen. Jumping around at 10 weeks in there. So yeah like I said do what you want I guess that's between you and God (if you believe in a god). I'd rather not be ending lives that would otherwise survive and get a chance to experience how awesome life on earth is.
Agreed, in certain circumstances. I still see nothing wrong in it. You are going to be an awesome parent though, and that would drastically change my POV if I got that far.
Thank you man I appreciate that. Even though Im hiding in the bathroom for 5 minutes just to have a break from the crying hehe
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Crystal G



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23536722 - 08/13/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: so all of these home birth that many nutters decide to have wouldnt be the cause, the cesarean is the reason for the high rates of death in child birth
more would die if it wasnt for the fact that c-sections were preformed in medically necessary cases, they're the reason the birthing death rate has been reduced as much as it has http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sections-rise-happen-medically/story?id=30228112 http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20140203/study-ties-home-births-to-higher-infant-death-rates#1
The USA performs C-section at twice the rate the World Health Organization recommends.
I don't believe in natural childbirth myself, I believe the reason epidurals and pain medicine exist to make women's lives easier, and therefore women should take advantage of it instead of listening to traditionalist nonsense. The idea that "you must go through the pain," and "women must suffer through the pain because these medicines are bad for the baby" is nonsense. I feel sorry for women who buy into this bullshit and are forced to endure through all that pain for nothing. My idea of a natural delivery is "no makeup." 
And of course my friends who have chosen natural deliveries are pretty much borderline-retarded or batshit crazy. They're the types of people who refuse to get their children vaccinated because "the government is trying to mind control us with autism" and one mom has even gone so far as to swear to breastfeed her son until he's an adult. Like WTF how warped and off the deep end can you get?!?!? That kid is going to resent her so much when he grows up, either that or he will have the biggest mommy issues ever.
And the concept of a home birth can be particularly dangerous because women develop certain conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes which makes one more at risk for things like stroke and heart attack while pregnant. I don't think women with at-risk pregnancies should ever choose home delivery.
But, I still believe the USA performs C-sections at a rate far higher than natural delivery. Part of the reason for that is because with the privatized healthcare system, doctors can charge more for a major surgery. And there are organizations out there that have looked at when C-sections are performed, and they are most often performed just right before the physician is about to go to lunch or just before he is about to clock out. They were therefore insinuating that C-sections are often performed more for the doctor's convenience, rather than because of an imminent life and death situation.
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BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223
Sorry, I should have specified that the USA is #1 out of all other developed nations. I couldn't view the link you sourced though, survey after survey kept popping up with no way for me to close out of it to view the link.
Bear in mind that many other developed nations still do natural deliveries and very few C-sections. Almost everybody from my home country believes only in natural childbirths, quite many celebrities from there come to the USA to give birth so they can have a painless and medicated delivery.
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you dont run a clinic for 20 years with complaints coming in all the time and have it remain a secret especially when some of those complaints are hand delivered to the state secretary of health by another physician. it was a licensed clinic up until the point that his license was suspended in 2010. it's pretty apparent that Pennsylvania is one of those states that's pretty lax in it's regulations which is what created these unsafe and unsanitary environments and stressed the even greater need for appropriate regulation and inspections
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell#Known_prior_complaints
Yeah, that makes sense. AFAIK back in the 90's when this guy was operating West Philly was a shithole, and Philadelphia was a ghetto with one of the highest murder rates in the entire country. I'm sure this guy was probably bribing officials that showed up at his doorstep, that's how he was able to remain in business for so long.
Edited by Crystal G (08/13/16 12:47 AM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
#23536802 - 08/13/16 01:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Crystal G said: The USA performs C-section at twice the rate the World Health Organization recommends.
the WHO isnt delivering the kids so they dont know what circumstances surround the birth, obesity is something the WHO is saying is an epidemic in the US and it's one of the large factors in complicated pregnancies which could lead to c-sections
Quote:
I don't believe in natural childbirth myself, I believe the reason epidurals and pain medicine exist to make women's lives easier, and therefore women should take advantage of it instead of listening to traditionalist nonsense. The idea that "you must go through the pain," and "women must suffer through the pain because these medicines are bad for the baby" is nonsense. I feel sorry for women who buy into this bullshit and are forced to endure through all that pain for nothing. My idea of a natural delivery is "no makeup." 
there's a huge difference in what you're trying to describe and what I said, home birth and natural child birth are 2 entirely different critters unless you want to call natural child birth the paleo birth where you squirt out a kid while skinning a mastodon
home birthing is of course typically done in the home, sometimes in the confines of a bed, sometimes in an inflatable 'birthing pool', it's done under the supervision of a midwife, not a doctor and not in a hospital where epidurals are an option you can use or refuse. you're dealing with birth the way it was 200 years ago in the US when neonatal and maternal death rates were far higher. these are nutters that believe that they can draw all the nutrients they need from the sun, that they draw energy from the earth and take essential oils and other homeopathy as actual medicine. they're unlikely to have proper medical care during their pregnancy such as visits to an obstetrician and even pre natal vitamins, which BTW, even flintstones chewables are a recommendation from doctors for women that cant take the horse pills. they frequently use midwives who's only qualifications are that they created a facebook page and have had 14 kids of their own by 37 different fathers these are women that have probably never washed their cooch and only got pregnant because the flies carried the spunk off the sock their boyfriend masturbated into up to her vagina
are you starting to get the picture of what the deference is between natural child birth and the home child birth that has been part of what's responsible for the higher mortality rates
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But, I still believe the USA performs C-sections at a rate far higher than natural delivery. Part of the reason for that is because with the privatized healthcare system, doctors can charge more for a major surgery. And there are organizations out there that have looked at when C-sections are performed, and they are most often performed just right before the physician is about to go to lunch or just before he is about to clock out. They were therefore insinuating that C-sections are often performed more for the doctor's convenience, rather than because of an imminent life and death situation.
doctards and insurance companies dont force cesareans on people but it has become an elective method in which women have the choice, yes, it's the woman's choice for the c-section because their vanity wont allow them to have a stretched out vag, surely you arent advocating we take the choice away from women, that would imply that they're incapable of making their own decisions regarding their reproductive health
Quote:
Quote:
BTW. the US isnt even close to the top of the list for maternal or neonatal mortality
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223
Sorry, I should have specified that the USA is #1 out of all other developed nations. I couldn't view the link you sourced though, survey after survey kept popping up with no way for me to close out of it to view the link.
why do liberals want to insist on this 'out of the western nations' bullshit for comparative purposes, it's horse shit because by the measure of developed nations and western nations there's about 6 that qualify
guess what.... Belarus, the last dictatorship of the former soviet union fares better then nearly all of the world when it comes to low maternal mortality and belarus, Estonia is also not a developed nation and they're the best when it comes to this shit so what's japan's excuse for such a high maternal mortality rate in relation to these two primitive countries
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Bear in mind that many other developed nations still do natural deliveries and very few C-sections.
bear in mind that the excess of c-sections has not increased the number of deaths during child birth, I dont have any clue where you'd come up with this shit, probably some retarded blog like Jezebel where free bleeders proclaim that tampons and bras were inventions made to rape and subjugate women
http://www.babycenter.com/0_elective-c-section_1498696.bc
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Crystal G



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23536822 - 08/13/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: there's a huge difference in what you're trying to describe and what I said, home birth and natural child birth are 2 entirely different critters unless you want to call natural child birth the paleo birth where you squirt out a kid while skinning a mastodon
lol
Well, usually all home births are natural. But not all natural births are done at home.
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home birthing is of course typically done in the home, sometimes in the confines of a bed, sometimes in an inflatable 'birthing pool', it's done under the supervision of a midwife, not a doctor and not in a hospital where epidurals are an option you can use or refuse. you're dealing with birth the way it was 200 years ago in the US when neonatal and maternal death rates were far higher. these are nutters that believe that they can draw all the nutrients they need from the sun, that they draw energy from the earth and take essential oils and other homeopathy as actual medicine. they're unlikely to have proper medical care during their pregnancy such as visits to an obstetrician and even pre natal vitamins, which BTW, even flintstones chewables are a recommendation from doctors for women that cant take the horse pills. they frequently use midwives who's only qualifications are that they created a facebook page and have had 14 kids of their own by 37 different fathers these are women that have probably never washed their cooch and only got pregnant because the flies carried the spunk off the sock their boyfriend masturbated into up to her vagina
LOL sounds exactly like my friend who believes the government is trying to poison us with autism in the form of vaccines, that sunblock is what causes skin cancer not UV rays, oh and she is planning to breastfeed her son until he's an adult because she believes it will make him superhuman
Also how do you have 14 kids by 37 different fathers? 
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doctards and insurance companies dont force cesareans on people but it has become an elective method in which women have the choice, yes, it's the woman's choice for the c-section because their vanity wont allow them to have a stretched out vag, surely you arent advocating we take the choice away from women, that would imply that they're incapable of making their own decisions regarding their reproductive health
Wouldn't a more vain woman choose vaginal birth? Vagina size shrinks back to normal, but C-sections create scarring, and sometimes your abdominal muscles will never go back to the way they were before. My aunt had one, and she says ever since then her stomach has never been toned. She's skinny everywhere except her stomach, because her stomach muscles are always relaxed and never tense up.
I heard that women who have had previous C-sections will always have to have C-sections in the future, so perhaps women who have had them previously are simply planning when to get their next ones.
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why do liberals want to insist on this 'out of the western nations' bullshit for comparative purposes, it's horse shit because by the measure of developed nations and western nations there's about 6 that qualify
It's actually between 50 and 80, depending on whether you use the term developed or high-income. Countries such as Puerto Rico and Saudi Arabia and Andorra are included.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Crystal G]
#23536841 - 08/13/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Crystal G said: Also how do you have 14 kids by 37 different fathers? 
it's time to use your imagination
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23537340 - 08/13/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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the reproductive cells have the dna of the parents. Its like skin cells, its an argument to absurdity. If a human is in development, it is a human. a baby cant survive on its own. a three year old would die without people. all of the pro choice arguments are belittling snears,obscuring the issue, claiming science says something when i doesnt for their own benafit
like I said, no values anymore. Human life s now considered cheap unless its right in front of you because of some rtarded idea that high numbers make the individual lss important, or that we are bad and the ecosystem and nature are somehow not
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#23537367 - 08/13/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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specialpeopleclub said: Human life s now considered cheap unless its right in front of you because of some rtarded idea that high numbers make the individual lss important, or that we are bad and the ecosystem and nature are somehow not
dont care
life is cheap
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23537389 - 08/13/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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that makes it look pretty special, since we may be the only life sustaining planet. we are looking and finding nothing.
we are the concresence, the raisin in the muffen
ya
terrence mckenna
so many years ago I heard that
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#23537397 - 08/13/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: that makes it look pretty special, since we may be the only life sustaining planet.
lol... not even close
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23537407 - 08/13/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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No evidence that there is more, just speculation.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Late-Term Abortion Debate: Should It Be Legal? [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#23537665 - 08/13/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do you, like, actively avoid reading science news or something? Kepler has been abuzz with discoveries of earthlike planets since 2013. Dozens have been identified. The question now isn't "if", but "how".
Data of Potentially Habitable Worlds

-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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specialpeopleclub



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So far, earth like hasnt meant life. We have methods that could detect the presence of certain organic materials from light waves or something im sure. If we find life, it will be simple most likely. we still may not find it.
Unless you are to say that bacteria or some other primative thing compaires to the radure of humanity, which Id say is the fucking stupid self deprocating thing I expec from humans of my time, then we are still special.
I know they are lightyears away, and we would be seeing deep into the past, but we find nothing
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: No evidence that there is more, just speculation.
I'm speculating just as you speculate that this is the only planet out of hundreds of billions of planets that life developed on, it's a very christian view on life in the universe.
can you possibly prove that there is no other life on other planets?
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