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Brain Bulb
Insane in the Membrane
Registered: 11/09/17
Posts: 1,358
Last seen: 8 months, 20 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Brain Bulb]
#25553393 - 10/20/18 06:34 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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@Ferather, checked out your grow log and you’re definitely doing your research. Think your method is way too involved for me. You have a background in science or mycology?
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Brain Bulb]
#25554550 - 10/21/18 05:15 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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The grow-up method you did looks much better, the mycelium can reconnect as one colony before growing out into the media. I think the science in my methods is more involved, to my knowledge a TC teaches children using WL-Tek.*
When you eventually gather enough experience, I suggest trying it on small samples.
* Gourmet edible mycelium, not magic types!
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I'm whats known as intellectually gifted or logically minded, I also have ADHD (sometimes selective) which gives me hyper-focus on tasks of interest. I am also scientifically minded, and was in the top set for both maths and all three sciences, not to blow my own horn.
https://www.additudemag.com/slideshows/benefits-of-adhd-to-love/?tos=accepted
In short I am a combination of varied genetics, with pros and cons.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25554611 - 10/21/18 06:10 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also, not to have a go at bod, or anyone else.
5 x dry weight is too much water, that is 83.33% water content, plus what you get from the non-nutritional vermiculite (pretty much just water).
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Here is a basic calculation, substrate dry weight - 75% = [X], [X] x 10 (90% water) = Fresh fruits, BE (biological efficiency).
Example: 25g dry - 75% = 6.25, 6.25 x 10 = 62.5 (250% BE), water needed (just for fruits): 62.5 - 6.25 = 56.25.
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Mycelium will need about 50% (25 dry + 25 water) content for enzyme function, and solubles. 56.25 + 25 = 81.25, @ 75% (x3 dry weight) I get 75g of water, nearly enough.
@ 80% (x4 dry weight) I get 100g of water, which is enough.
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My suggestion is either x4 no verm, or x3 with verm. See my water content guide for more info.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25554618 - 10/21/18 06:13 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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How about you grow some lol. You can talk all you want about people's coir and water #s in terms of your theories. but these numbers that I and others use... they're derived from trials that produced the best results.
You cant grow mushrooms on a Post-It note bro
Besides there's multiple flushes, evaporation, and rehydration all playing in balance. The objective isn't to be left with a bone dry substrate after a flush
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25554643 - 10/21/18 06:30 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, 80% water bulk vs 75% water cake, CaCO3 dunked, the dunked cake produced higher BE. Re-hydration, removal of oxalate (waste), and pH improved total yield.
I will be doing more tests soon, with images.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#25554655 - 10/21/18 06:34 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cakes always are making better BE than bulk grows. Big deal.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25554684 - 10/21/18 06:54 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am not here to make arguments, I did not intent to offend you. I don't have an issue with any of your methods. You are correct that I did not factor in water loss, this is because I try to factor in the heavy rain effect.
Mycelium will acidify medias overtime, oxalates and so on, eventually this will inhibit BE. Adding CaCO3 to your dunk water will allow for removal and increase the pH.
Water alone can alter the pH and saturate acids, around the surface.
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Here is a sample of what I call a spent cake, it was 2 years old.
It regenerated in CaCO3 water, and removed waste.
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Question:
If you did 50/50 coir and grain, is the coir dry weight calculated in BE?
Surely there is a difference between: Coir + grain | Verm + grain?
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#25554686 - 10/21/18 06:55 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not offended just posting. like you do on forums.
BE doesn't care about ingredients. You measure the dry weights of everything you use.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25554688 - 10/21/18 06:55 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Not offended just posting. like you do on forums.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: BE doesn't care about ingredients. You measure the dry weights of everything you use.
Edited by Ferather (10/21/18 07:19 AM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?
Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 10,017
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#25555112 - 10/21/18 10:24 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: Here's an example, you know when the sporeload in your house is ridiculously high when you've been making no-pours for 3 years without a hitch and all of a sudden one day they all start molding out unopened within 2 weeks after pc'ing (while stored in a tote with the lid shut and in a room with no air currents). See this.
This happens to me now. And it didn't before. And IMO, it's more likely my materials are degrading than my house suddenly has so many more mold spore that normal methods won't stop them. So I changed my tape on my PP's to MP tape and am going to mark which plates keep getting infected over others, because I'm sure it's lids being far too loose from so many PC cycles or something. Not my house suddenly bombarding everything with more spores than before.
And again, for the 40th time, nobody here has any idea what a "high sporeload" actually is or at what point normal SFDs, MP tape, jars, etc. will all fail because of this heavy imaginary load. Why don't you just say "spores are getting into my shit" instead of, "My house has way more mold spores than others!" People are somehow assigning contaminations to one specific thing (which is coincidentally something they can't control) with absolute certainty, when in fact, they don't have absolute certainty.
And perhaps I'm just insensitive, but I think it's beyond stupid to keep bitching about your spore loads in regards to something like unmodded lids. Maybe buy a tube of $3 RTV and spend $10 on SFDs and eliminate the issue entirely? Are you here to convince others your situation is difficult or to grow some mushrooms? Maybe don't model your methods of growing after someone like PW who is probably the best cultivator the board has?
Edited by stareatclouds (10/21/18 10:32 AM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?
Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 10,017
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Quote:
To believe sab work only protects from low spore loads but not high ones doesn't make any sense. Same for lid filters.
Exactly. And if your argument amounts to, "But I saw someone open their plate for 5 minutes and they were fine" then I guess IDGAF. That's never been advisable for anyone, so I don't care if someone's house allows it or not. If properly built lids with new SFDs immediately contam after legit PC cycles, then I'll listen. Til then, at best y'all are saying, "certain people's homes/situations have far, far less spores than the average and can get away with unadvisable shit" (which I also don't care about), and not, "My home has so many spores that I can't do anything."
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Josex
#cheat_code
Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,996
Loc:
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Yeah the very first thing you do when this happens is try and troubleshoot everything.
First thing you think is that the lids must be failing. But I always keep a stock of brand new containers for agar (glad mini rounds as well as the deli type containers I use with lids that close tight as hell), so I use the new ones and the same shit happens, they mold out unopened . Then you think that maybe the tape is failing, so I use glass containers with metal lids that I know close completely hermetic and they don't mold out anymore, so the conclusion you draw is that the tape is ok and it's the lids of snap-on containers that just aren't good enough to keep mold at bay (when there's lots of mold in the air at least).
Then you think that this has never happened to you in 3 years (unopened plates molding out inside a shut tote). Then you realize your sab sessions are becoming a nightmare too and you get mold just doing the simplest procedure, when before you success rate was virtually 100%. So of course, something tangible is happening, nothing imaginary about this.
Then you try to look for the source of mold that's fucking with you and you find it and it's huge, all the windows are infected and rotting away, nothing imaginary about this. Then you realize that airing out the house is not an option if the windows are the problem, so you seal them up and the spores inside don't have anywhere to go.
Then you try vacuuming the place and bleaching any surface that can be bleached. 3 days go by after cleaning, and the remaining humidity on the walls and doors is enough to make mold spores germinate and now you have mold growing inside the house too. This is not imagination either...
You're srly pissed off, you take a fucking torch and start torching the mold on the walls, closets and doors. But you know this is even worse and now the spores are really everywhere and you're fucked.
You realize the only option left is changing your methods to allow you to work under these circumstances. And you change them and mold is not a problem anymore even though the place is still fcked. Happy end of story at least.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#25555260 - 10/21/18 11:28 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't think that mold was all there when you had success? It happened overnight? You said your issues happened suddenly. If your issues happen suddenly i would say its not even plausible its your home as it didn't mold overnight. I would think your issues would be gradually getting worse if your home was to blame. you had success for a while before the issues, and that while was 3 whole years of success.
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Josex
#cheat_code
Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,996
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25555296 - 10/21/18 11:45 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes it was gradual, at first it was something I could deal with and I was at first blaming my technique and lids, even though my technique got me good results thus far and felt confident about it. 2 or 3 unopened plates molding out here and there, some grain jars molding out out of a bunch, etc... I was just describing how bad the situation got eventually.
The reason why the wood blind boxes started to rot away and mold out at that point and not before I don't know. All I know is that it happened.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
Josex said: all of a sudden one day they all start molding out unopened within 2 weeks after pc'ing (while stored in a tote with the lid
Which one is it lol Gradually or all the sudden.
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teladi
FUNKSOULBROTHER
Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 1,189
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
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Marmite is a rubbish agar additive [Re: bodhisatta]
#25555321 - 10/21/18 11:57 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey bod, you made a comment somewhere about Marmite being too salty.
As an additive to MEA, Marmite is rubbish. 5 days for a half a dozen plates transferred from MEA, and I am only seeing the faintest growth now. Temp is just fine (18-24 C). I'll let them grow out, but it doesn't look like a good candidate. I should have run some control plates concurrently, but 5 days after A2A should exhibit much better growth than what I am seeing, so I'm calling it.
Concentration was 2g/L of Marmite by Pioneer Foods (South Africa).
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Josex
#cheat_code
Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,996
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25555322 - 10/21/18 11:57 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jeez man haha the use of that phrase was purely rethorical. Of course it didn't happen overnight. Look I'm here sharing my experience and would gain nothing from lying. I find lying and making shit up on the internet really pathetic.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Marmite is a rubbish agar additive [Re: teladi]
#25555596 - 10/21/18 02:08 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
teladi said: Hey bod, you made a comment somewhere about Marmite being too salty.
As an additive to MEA, Marmite is rubbish. 5 days for a half a dozen plates transferred from MEA, and I am only seeing the faintest growth now. Temp is just fine (18-24 C). I'll let them grow out, but it doesn't look like a good candidate. I should have run some control plates concurrently, but 5 days after A2A should exhibit much better growth than what I am seeing, so I'm calling it.
Concentration was 2g/L of Marmite by Pioneer Foods (South Africa).
I just looked at the nutrients, after reading your post, it's high in chloride, sodium and potassium (bod is correct). If you compare it to brown rice, it's actually not very nutritional (missing some key nutrients).
Yeast extract, Marmite | Rice, brown, raw.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Marmite is a rubbish agar additive [Re: Ferather]
#25555715 - 10/21/18 02:53 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Consumers are often surprised–and dismayed–to learn that the information on nutrition facts labels is not nearly as accurate or reliable as they imagined. Part of this is built into the system. The FDA allows manufacturers and packagers a surprisingly wide margin of error–the information can be off by 20% in either direction and still be in compliance. For example, if the nutrition facts label says that a food contains 300 calories, it may actually contain anywhere from 240 to 360 calories.
And, of course, sometimes the labels are out of compliance. Although it would technically be up to the FDA (in the case of packaged foods) and the states (in the case of restaurants) to enforce the laws, you can imagine that the budget for spot-checking the accuracy of this information is fairly small. When errors come to light, it’s usually due to independent investigations.
Calories are Usually Underestimated If the calorie counts on packaged foods were just as likely to be over as under, you could hope that it would all average out in the end. But in fact, it appears that the labels underestimate the calorie counts far more often than they overestimate them.
A report in the January 2010 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that on average, packaged foods contained 8% more calories than advertised
That's for the labels on the good you're actually buying. Its got to be even worse for a gross generalization for data that umbrellas something as genetic as "brown rice" or marmite regardless of brand
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JHOVA
Post whore
Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
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Re: Marmite is a rubbish agar additive [Re: bodhisatta]
#25555747 - 10/21/18 03:08 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who are you replying to bod? I dont see anything.
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