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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #25552562 - 10/20/18 12:41 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tookitooki said:
For anyone to say spore load has no effect on success vs failure is spreading misinformation.



:whathesaid:


Bod has a tendency of saying,
Quote:

bodhisatta said: This whole idea of [...] is ridiculous to me.


whenever a group of people consistently report having a problem he's never experienced himself. Literally like, "it's ridiculous because it hasn't happened to me" kinda deal. :shrug:
Dismissing someone's experience based on that premise alone is ridiculous in itself if you ask me.

We all have different levels and skill here but I like to think that even the majority of people who aren't that great yet at cult are intelligent individuals more than capable of discerning what is causing a given issue. And it's not like it's difficult at all to know when a high sporeload is fucking with you. I must admit I don't take kindly to someone insulting my intelligence and I also don't like the fact that, right off the bat, I can think of a bunch of skilled cultivators here that have experienced this too and would rather remain silent like lil' bitches because either they're too lazy to get into a debate or because they're afraid of what people might think of their technique if they talk about this.


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If you let your PC cool down with unmodified lids loosened. Likely what will happen is contamination.




Agreed.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:If it hits zero you open it and tighten the lids or put it in front of a hood to cool. Zero contamination



If you tighten the lids when they're hot the jar will pull a vaccuum and next time you open the lid it will suck up air. That's alright if you work in front of a FH but could very well set you up for failure in a SAB.
Lesson you can take home from this if you're a noob; don't mess with unmodified lids if you can help it, make a proper filtered lid. Better yet, don't mess with plastic lids at all for grain jars... they suck, but that's another topic and maybe more of an opinion than a fact.

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
But what is the point of any of this? For people to feel better when they fail? You're assigning a random spore count to your home which isn't a metric any of us know.




Wut? It doesn't work that way, no need to a assign numbers to something you can't even see or measure. But rather, you know it because your work gets ruined now when doing stuff the same exact way you've been doing it in the past without encountering a single issue.
Here's an example, you know when the sporeload in your house is ridiculously high when you've been making no-pours for 3 years without a hitch and all of a sudden one day they all start molding out unopened  within 2 weeks after pc'ing (while stored in a tote with the lid shut and in a room with no air currents). See this.
You know when your spore load is incredibly high when barely cracking a lid in the SAB for 3 seconds (I did this test, just cracking it and that was it) is all it takes to see mold.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I use methods that work even if my arms were made of trich spores.



You can get all cocky you want but I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you would fail miserably in my place if you only used a plain SAB.


We all have had moldy tubs. But nothing that regular cleaning and airing out of the house couldn't fix over time, that's a non-issue IMO. But not all cases are as simple as that. In my case, I grow in a very old apartment (I don't even live here) and it took me a while to detect the source of mold. Basically, every single wood box for the blinds of every single window were completely covered in green. Every box had huge gaps and I happen to live in a windy area, so my place was being constanly bombarded with mold spores. I either shelled out a fortune on installing new windows or sealed them up best I could with silicone and foam, chose the latter.


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Everyone doing MC should have a fluid approach to constantly tweaking and changing shit to make it work.




This. I waged a war against mold and I won mercilessly. Spore load is not an issue anymore. I changed my methods radically, fuck I even ditched the SAB and starting working with fire after lots of experimenting and I was greatly surprised to discover that it works beautifully.


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InvisibleTookitooki
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #25552751 - 10/20/18 02:02 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Im not here to create sides, attack anyone, or get in to a right vs wrong dick swining ego battle.  I want noobs to think, not just blindly follow teks and not understand why they failed. 

Sterile Tek Trump everything!  Won't argue that.

There are two categories to battling contams.  Sterile Tek and equipment.  Jars and lids fall under the equipment category.

Spore load is kinda a moot point, I do get it.  I know we can only change but so much of that and it's more of a work around. It's more of a reasoning as to why it failed. To get members to accept the fact, that they can't use some of the same methods/teks, as they witness others succeed with. 




Cultivation is a mindset, not all members have developed it, but telling people to not look at their equipment because it worked fine for someone else, is not a correct mindset to develop in members here. 

How can some people walk around there house with a agar plate open and barley see contams.  I can't even get close to my arm holes in my SAB with out my plates picking up mold.

Like I said, I realized what I was up against and adapted to it.  But by discarding the notion of higher spore loads causing issues, you might be giving members a false sense of security.  We can't test it.  So we can't say if it does or does not effect. 

But in life I have learned that if any barrier gets pushed to a limit, weaknesses will be found.  And that can be applied globally, in science, engineering, environmentally,  to life as a whole.    Spore load and filters, I see no difference.


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OfflineGBW and eat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25552777 - 10/20/18 02:14 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
Quote:

GBW and eat said:
My last flush were a bit different. I had only 1 mushroom and 2 in the other box. The 3rd one I didn't setup because it got all green in mold last flush. I guess these boxes might be coming to an end, this is the 3rd harvest of these 2.

I left them for 2 days, they were still quite small when I left them and when I checked them today they were brutal and all opened up.

My question is, do these ones even look eatable? I never had these big ones before and only been eating cap closed or cap just opened shrooms. I also suspect they are not healthy since it was so few shrooms?

But how about now that they are opened and released their spores, does that increase the chance of next flush being a big one? I guess I will put them in water for 12h and see if there is still some life in these boxes.

http://imgur.com/a/iwnwDO2



Upload them to the shroomery. Nobody who can help is going to open that link




Sorry, I thought people were usually okey with simple private Imgur albums.
Her comes the uploads. Thanks in advance.









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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
    #25552778 - 10/20/18 02:14 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes:


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #25552807 - 10/20/18 02:26 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Cocky as it may sound i promise i could use a SAB in any place someone says I couldn't.

Field mycologists use basically what is a SAB in the middle of jungles :shrug:

Jose ive seen your trich towel problem. Ive had tubs that looked worse than your towel in my room plenty of times


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #25552832 - 10/20/18 02:34 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

How hard can it be to detect a spore load In ones house? :shrug:
Just open a bunch of plates inside the SAB and in different locations in the house.
Remove the lid from the plates only for as long as it normally takes you to make a transfer or whatever, for 3-5 sec.


I personally don't think one should blame a bad spore load in the house unless one has done some research and testing to determine that it is a fact. If you see enormous green patches all over the house like Josex I guess you don't need to do testing...


But JHOVA should probably do some blank transfers opening and closing some dishes if he is determined to find out what is causing the contams.


--------------------
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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25552846 - 10/20/18 02:38 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Towel problem? Have you even read what I said above? That was before I discovered the real source because that was the best explanation I could find atm before it dawned on me to check the windows. I've told you this twice already man.


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25552896 - 10/20/18 02:56 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
How hard can it be to detect a spore load In ones house? :shrug:
Just open a bunch of plates inside the SAB and in different locations in the house.
Remove the lid from the plates only for as long as it normally takes you to make a transfer or whatever, for 3-5 sec.


I personally don't think one should blame a bad spore load in the house unless one has done some research and testing to determine that it is a fact. If you see enormous green patches all over the house like Josex I guess you don't need to do testing...


But JHOVA should probably do some blank transfers opening and closing some dishes if he is determined to find out what is causing the contams.





thats a lot of work thats useless imo. my pasty plates speak for themselves with their green mold lol. its fine now ill saran wrap jars and plates like i should have been doing all along. use gaskets for plastic lids and i think thats about all ill need to do to be successful in my house. and sterilize my coir :freewilly:


--------------------
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: JHOVA]
    #25552977 - 10/20/18 03:35 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Anyone who cultivates on the gulf coast cultivates in obnoxiously high spore loads. And we don't hear about all the people from Florida Louisiana Georgia and texas having a hard time


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Invisiblemushfuss
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25553006 - 10/20/18 03:53 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

If you kids are all using your brain to problem solve, congrats. You're on the same page.

Outliers that solve problems with drastic measures knew that drastic measures had to be taken, and there shouldn't be advice to take drastic measures if a random new cultivator gets a moldy jar.

I like my windows just how they are, but if I thought it would help me grow...


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushfuss]
    #25553022 - 10/20/18 03:59 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Half of summer all my windows are open anyway. Sometimes the news says the spore and pollen count are high.

To believe sab work only protects from low spore loads but not high ones doesn't make any sense. Same for lid filters.


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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25553097 - 10/20/18 04:29 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

There's also the definition of protection from contams. In an sab, it's fairly easy to get a contam somewhere down the line when isolating genetics, especially if you only transfer to 1 plate every time. I'm talking 30 consecutive transfers stuff. More often than not it's a small effort to go back a plate, but the whole endeavor will become much easier with a flowhood, but only if technique is on point. Speed of movement is also a big issue for some, along with freedom of movement. If you can't get it done with an sab, it's very unlikely you'll get it done with a flowhood, but if your game is at 75%, it's just as likely to go straight to 95%. I guess what I wanna say is, I believe bod when he says he can grow inside my garbage container while I shit a brick in his neck, but I also believe he's likely to catch a contam if he has to isolate it over 20-30 plates there, and I also believe Josex and others when they say sporeload CAN fuck everything up. My personal issues were probably half paranoia and misidentification of healthy mycelium and dried up condensation spots, but there were definitely places and periods where my SAB yielded better results than at other places and times. My flowhood fixed it all, except for the plates where I'll still be paranoid about hidden contams.
In fact I poured some tetracycline agar just to compare a suspect plate after a seperate run over regular and antibiotic agar. I'm really wondering what that will turn up...


--------------------
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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25553103 - 10/20/18 04:31 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Shoebox take 3 is looking good so far!  This is two days after inoculating CV with grain spawn. (Hope I used the correct terminology)

Myc has started to break the surface:


Pics of the rest of the box:


--------------------


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25553111 - 10/20/18 04:34 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

In my case, the blind boxes were all rotting away from the inside with mold and the wind took care of pumping insane clouds of spores in the house through the gaps in the boxes.

A SAB and good technique will work in most people's environments but can only take you so far. Although rare, if shit gets bad enough a SAB won't do squat, IME. I went from a nearly 100% success rate to a 20~30% success rate. I solved the problem so it's now a mere anecdote from the past.

When I started I used to do sterile work in a really dirty basement and I rarely saw contams even though my technique was horrible at the time. :shrug:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #25553151 - 10/20/18 04:55 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

@Brain Bulb

No offense, based on what I see, I would say that either the substrate, or the spawn isn't doing very well.
There is some really odd formations, and in general growth doesn't look very healthy to me.

If you used the right coir and amount of water, something else is an issue.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #25553172 - 10/20/18 05:06 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
@Brain Bulb

No offense, based on what I see, I would say that either the substrate, or the spawn isn't doing very well.
There is some really odd formations, and in general growth doesn't look very healthy to me.

If you used the right coir and amount of water, something else is an issue.




Are you talking about the rhizo growth in the corners?  Idk.  Looks fine to me but I haven’t had anything fruit yet so guess I’ll have to see.  Followed Bod’s Tek for CV substrate.  Only used one jar of oats.  Should I have used more?  My first two boxes I put into fruiting conditions immediately which didn’t work for me.  Wanted to let this SB colonize first.


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Offlinegreps
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Brain Bulb]
    #25553183 - 10/20/18 05:12 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry to be spamming this question, but it's been on my mind a lot recently and I'm trying to figure it out for future information.

I've read a lot of the information here, but recently I was told by someone respectable that each clone from a fruit is an isolate, and that "sectoring" does not result from genetic variation but from essentially handling or different circumstances. there's a big writeup in stro's cleanup where he clones a fruit and then says "each sector represents a different isolate"

how are we sure that sectoring actually reflects the genetics?

How true is this? I would not normally doubt what I read, especially from people that have been growing for years, but I can't find any scientific articles or reference to this phenomenon. Am I crazy?


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InvisibleJust_A_Noob
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: greps]
    #25553192 - 10/20/18 05:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Yo brain bulb, I can see what ferather is talking about.  I wouldn’t be to worried it’ll probably fruit just fine.  But I suspect the substrate might’ve  been over field capacity when you spawned.  That or the low hanging fruit of bacterial oats


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Brain Bulb]
    #25553200 - 10/20/18 05:20 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I won't argue with bod and fruiting, not started my fruiting project yet. The growth on my substrate and spawn looks different to yours.

           

I ended up with a solid cake, I would say it's healthy. Growth also looks visibly the same on lime rocks.
Checkout my Cubensis log in my signature for images and data, more coming soon.

As I said, based on what I see. No offense is intended.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #25553273 - 10/20/18 05:45 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Well, I won't argue with bod and fruiting, not started my fruiting project yet. The growth on my substrate and spawn looks different to yours.

           

I ended up with a solid cake, I would say it's healthy. Growth also looks visibly the same on lime rocks.
Checkout my Cubensis log in my signature for images and data, more coming soon.

As I said, based on what I see. No offense is intended.





No offense taken.  I’m sure no two mycelium growths are the same and depending on the species the myc can look different as well.  Here’s another shoebox I have going but used a different method.



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