|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
|
|
Quote:
stareatclouds said: I feel like there should be a rule that if you claim your house's high sporeload is the reason for your failure rate, you have to post a video of an SAB session and detail your grain/agar/whatever prep. I know it's more palatable to blame external, uncontrollable factors, but if your goal is to get better at MC, stop deluding yourself and consider that maybe it's your game that needs work. Even if your situation is worse than average, you can still make improvements and adjust.
This is not directed at anybody in particular.
I agree with you. But at the same time, technique can't fix a warped ball plastic lid.
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki] 1
#25549992 - 10/19/18 11:19 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Well, poor technique = screwing plastic lids on too tight to begin with, causing them to be warped. And not recognizing when lids are warped is operator error, as well. I've asked people to post their lids before, too. I just think in general, blaming your environment should be a last resort.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
|
Yea i have 150+ plastic lids now 3x48 packs off Amazon and some of the ball packages. Some lids were obviously shit right off the bat and got tossed. Ive tossed another 10 or so from warping. Otherwise they're cheap and reliable and one piece so i dig em
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25550017 - 10/19/18 11:31 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yep. I probably have 20-30 or so as I prefer regular, but I think I've warped maybe 1 so far and it's super obvious that the rim is crooked as fuck. And that was me removing the jars early and tightening it a bit while it was still malleable. That's another reason I dislike them.
|
Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
|
|
I agree, you cant blame it on Environment right from the start. Spore load determines what you can get away with in regards to technique. I see some TC doing open air tiger drops, and coming out with clean spawn. For fun, I simply took a jar and just simply opened it for 5 secs, 5 days later it was green.
Teks like "no mod lids" that say to leave a half turn loose, is setting noobs up for failure if they don't understand their spore load. When your running a PC where you can stack your jars, (aa941). How do you keep the weight off the lids? Heat and pressure cause deformation in plastic.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25550042 - 10/19/18 11:39 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
This whole idea of sporeload is ridiculous to me. If your house has 1,000,000 or 100,000,000 contaminants per some volume the lids still have to stop the contaminants. Its not as if theres 1,000,000 lids will work unmodified but if theres 100,000,000 they won't.
If our lids are only good to a certain level of airborne spores they're no good at all period.
|
tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25550054 - 10/19/18 11:42 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Brain Bulb said:
Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
Quote:
Brain Bulb said: Had to do some emergency transfers yesterday as well bc some of the plates I did in the last batch were poured too hot. Started off with heavy condensation then started getting mold and bacteria around the edges of the agar.
This was my best looking transfer to date but spotted a pink bacteria growing on it at the 12 o’clock position.

Go back to basics. Are you wrapping your plates? That agar looks great. Don't buy anything premade. Make your own
Mos def. I enjoy making my own agar. On this one particular batch I poured too hot and wrapped it too soon. Almost looked like is was raining in some of the plates. This plate looked good from the start though.
Poured some more yesterday and made sure it was around 117F then waited 2 hours before wrapping. I always make 2 batches of GSA at a time. One for immediate use and one to use at a later date. Every time I reheat it though I have problems with clumping.... Keep checking the temp and shaking but never fails I end up with a handful of clumpy plates.
I’ve been cleaning my SAB with 70/30 ISO mix prior to using it then mist with soapy water in between every few trays or when I change species. Scalpel or loop is resting in ISO and I’m torching them before each use. Even started changing my blade/loop more frequently.
I’ll get it down. Just sucks that I didn’t have any issues with my first couple batches and this one got screwed up. All part of the learning process though. Not going to let it discourage me. Ordered 500 more plates the other day:).
Thanks Tryp 
I feel like condensation shouldnt be causing mold and bacteria... Would any of you masters like to chime in? I'm not sure what's up with his spawn..
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea i have 150+ plastic lids now 3x48 packs off Amazon and some of the ball packages. Some lids were obviously shit right off the bat and got tossed. Ive tossed another 10 or so from warping. Otherwise they're cheap and reliable and one piece so i dig em
You guys should check out the metal single peices
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
Edited by tryptkaloids (10/19/18 11:42 AM)
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25550073 - 10/19/18 11:47 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would realize when something is warping my lids and stop doing it. And if I realized my spore load was too high, whatever that means, I'd spend the very little time necessary to modify my lids into standard SFDs. Everyone doing MC should have a fluid approach to constantly tweaking and changing shit to make it work.
My entire point was that if you're going to blame something completely out of your control and not the most likely culprit, at least post a video showing you don't have obvious errors. People with any issues or less-than-stellar results should be posting videos anyway. We all have something we could improve and a video is easy to record and post. $.02.
|
Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25550077 - 10/19/18 11:49 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So what's the difference in one person getting away with a open air tiger drop, and one not.
Jars untouched out of a PC that go bad. What's the cause?
I had to ween out bad lids, and bad sfd. Now I only see contams when I bring in a new batch of sfd. I suspected a bad sfd,. I ran it again with a lid from a jar that didn't fail. The disc failed a second time. That's when I learned it's possible to get bad sfd as well.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki] 1
#25550092 - 10/19/18 11:53 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
If you let your PC cool down with unmodified lids loosened. Likely what will happen is contamination.
If it hits zero you open it and tighten the lids or put it in front of a hood to cool. Zero contamination
If you do open air tiger drop 1000 times im sure most people will have very similar success/failure rates. If you do open air tiger drop on 10 jars sometimes 10 may be good sometimes 10 may be bad, not enough trials to even consider making a judgement about it.
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25550096 - 10/19/18 11:54 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I wasn't singling you out or anything, by the way. I didn't even know/remember you had issues. And there could be a million reasons before "my house is too dirty." That's my entire point. Who gives a fuck about someone doing an open air tiger drop? That's not good sterile tek. The relevant idea is that in a house with average spores to above average, you're unlikely to have more contaminations with say a properly built lid and solid technique.
There's not enough information in your post for me to diagnose. But poor PC times/technique, bad lids, bad SFD, etc. I highly doubt your mold spores are kamikaze bombing through a solid SFD. The potential reasons you're describing are all issues that'd be present in home's with whatever mold spore counts. Just take every precaution you can to limit the chances of bad shit getting where it shouldn't.
Muda did SAB work on his toilet, bro.
|
Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
|
|
Quote:
stareatclouds said: I would realize when something is warping my lids and stop doing it. And if I realized my spore load was too high, whatever that means, I'd spend the very little time necessary to modify my lids into standard SFDs. Everyone doing MC should have a fluid approach to constantly tweaking and changing shit to make it work.
My entire point was that if you're going to blame something completely out of your control and not the most likely culprit, at least post a video showing you don't have obvious errors. People with any issues or less-than-stellar results should be posting videos anyway. We all have something we could improve and a video is easy to record and post. $.02.
I agree with you stare. When diagnosing contams, one can't discount anything untill tests rule it out. For anyone to say spore load has no effect on success vs failure is spreading misinformation.
Bad technique + low spore load = potential success
Good technique + high spore load = potential failure
Perfect technique + high spore load = greater chance of potential success
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25550116 - 10/19/18 12:01 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25550141 - 10/19/18 12:10 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tookitooki said: I agree with you stare. When diagnosing contams, one can't discount anything untill tests rule it out. For anyone to say spore load has no effect on success vs failure is spreading misinformation.
Bad technique + low spore load = potential success
Good technique + high spore load = potential failure
Perfect technique + high spore load = greater chance of potential success
But what is the point of any of this? For people to feel better when they fail? You're assigning a random spore count to your home which isn't a metric any of us know. To each their own, but this is all super worthless and counterproductive to me. I'm not ever trying to get by with bad technique. There are ways to do things that we've collectively established as optimal and I try my best to get those down. And it's worked out for me. My house was built in the 60s, has had mold in my grow room, mildew in all window sills, pets, old ass carpet, etc. How much worse can yours be than mine?
Maybe everyone should just pretend they have a record number of spores and stop taking shortcuts and using riskier methods like unmodified lids? And then, like I said, a higher spore count shouldn't really matter because nothing I've read suggests 20x as many spores can sneak through a properly RTV'd SFD.
Again, my whole point is to stop worrying about shit you're unlikely to change and work on what you can. Are you going to move because of this? In the time I've seen people spend arguing about how dirty their house is, they could've uploaded a video of an SAB session or examined their lids or something.
Quote:
For anyone to say spore load has no effect on success vs failure is spreading misinformation.
You're talking about TD in open air and shit. That's not an issue regarding sporeload. That's an issue with technique. A warped lid or shitty SFD is not an issue with sporeload. That's an issue with materials and user error. If you can eradicate the issue with obvious fixes, such as using properly built traditional lids, it's not an issue with having an abnormal sporeload. It's an issue with you not doing the bare minimum and gold standard for what works in any house.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds] 2
#25550153 - 10/19/18 12:14 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I use methods that work even if my arms were made of trich spores.
|
stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25550160 - 10/19/18 12:16 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said: I use methods that work even if my arms were made of trich spores.
Exactly. People act as if mold spores aren't ubiquitous. I've seen nothing that shows a higher concentration of spores (which again, isn't a metric I've seen established) is more likely to cause failures in any capacity.
|
tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds] 1
#25550320 - 10/19/18 01:19 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Again, my whole point is to stop worrying about shit you're unlikely to change and work on what you can.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change (sporeload), the courage to change the things i can (lids,technique, sterilization), and the wisdom to know the difference
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
|
Wing
The Eye Tyrant



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 3,293
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25551385 - 10/19/18 10:37 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I live in a swamp. Humidity is like a sweaty jockstrap. Idk wtf a normal "spore load" is but it would have to be well above where I live. Not to mention our old farmhouse with lots of issues that isn't anywhere near sanitary. I also have 3 dogs and 3 cats that are in and out. You'd shit if you saw what grows in a short time.
That said, the only time I see contam is when I fuck up or when I'm isolating away from it on agar. I've used sfd, iron polyfil, polyfil, unmodified lids, tyvek, etc. I've use shitty ass polyfil for years now without issue.
Point being, spore load is BS. Do things properly and you'll see success even if you live in a shitty old farmhouse in the middle of a swamp that's dirty af with polyfil.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
|
grainbrain
Tribalistic

Registered: 05/11/11
Posts: 2,626
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wing]
#25552188 - 10/20/18 09:51 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What is 0.03% of 1,000,000?
What is 0.03% of 1,000,000,000?
What is 0.03% of 1,000,000,000,000,000?
Sporeload matters, but technique matters more.
I tried using unmodified plastic lids for my no pour agar & got satellite contams around the edges every time. Jars breathe & without a filter they're going to pull in contams from the path of least resistance.
-------------------- Stop cold shocking your mycelium! Hot Spawn - Get It On 
|
JHOVA
Post whore


Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
|
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: grainbrain]
#25552235 - 10/20/18 10:14 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Dont blame the lid its your technique clearly! Didnt you know bod has over 9000 plastic lids and 0% failure rate which means ball plastic lids work all the time everywhere no matter what contams you see.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
|
|