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RomeoPapa
Jackass of All Trades



Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,583
Loc: In the middle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014205 - 02/22/18 07:00 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your veggies from the garden would spoil too if it didn't kill everything in the pc cycle. People eat old ass home canned goods all the time and don't die.
-------------------- It's better to have it and not need it Than it is to need it and not have it.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: RomeoPapa]
#25014213 - 02/22/18 07:03 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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i know whole grains are different. thats why you can steam PF.. but you can still steam grains it just takes +8hrs. the pressure is to heat up steam and penetrate the grain and not loose water content since its under pressure in reasonable time frames.
....right? 
even then.. i thought things(grains included) were either sterilized or not. dead, or alive. black or white.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014216 - 02/22/18 07:03 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: i understand that. thats what ive read and heard here before.
but that doesnt explain why things dont spoil. if some survive, then thats enough to cause spoilage, right? which i dont experience.
these grew off months old grains. they colonized slow but thats it.
 shorties but that aint nothin to do with the grains.
It is not a gaurenteed thing...some grains will show no signs of contams for months..others may contam in a couple weeks, once something is colonized the threat is nuetrilized
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: RomeoPapa]
#25014219 - 02/22/18 07:04 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RomeoPapa said: Your veggies from the garden would spoil too if it didn't kill everything in the pc cycle. People eat old ass home canned goods all the time and don't die.
Our veggies do not harboyr endospores and molds are killed off at temps beliw pasturizing...canned goods also have an expiry date
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#25014222 - 02/22/18 07:05 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: once something is colonized the threat is nuetrilized
that i do know. but im talking about many of jars over the combined years that have never gone bad from not being inoculated.
thats all im sayin. and expiration dates on 'non-perishable' foods is kind of funny imo. different topic though.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014229 - 02/22/18 07:06 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Using one persons experience does not outweigh the truth, aloha has done extensive studies in these matters
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014232 - 02/22/18 07:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have no idea how many endospores it takes to "spoil" something. I doubt there's a specific number to any of this since endospore counts vary, as does everyone's prep technique. I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, but I feel like the soak + heat that doesn't kill all endospores is going to reactivate those remaining, causing an issue down the line.
And I don't think you'll always be able to look at your grains and tell if they're bad or not. It's one of those "best practice" lines of thinking and not, "IF YOU DON'T INOCULATE IN X HOURS, YOUR GRAIN IS TOAST!" Kind of like people spawning bacterial jars and getting fruits. It's like yeah, you can do that, but it's nowhere near optimal. There's a reason big mush companies have like walk-in autoclaves or whatever that sterilize for 8 hours and shit.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#25014234 - 02/22/18 07:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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fair enough cron. but isnt aloha 'one person' in a sense? 
i got it though.
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Steevo
Just a cog in the death wheel



Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 2,702
Loc: Here and There
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014239 - 02/22/18 07:09 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mushboy is the Keith Richards of mycology. He defies all odds
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014241 - 02/22/18 07:10 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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No aloha is an example...but look at the ussues guys were having with shit like oats over the past couple years or popcorn for the past decade
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Quote:
stareatclouds said: sterilize for 8 hours and shit.
dont those use steam??(not under pressure) im not trying to be one of those 'i can get away with it' types. i know what you mean stare.
im just asking a question.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014258 - 02/22/18 07:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think aloha does 3 hours at 60 psi
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Shineonyoucrazy
Apprentice fungi


Registered: 09/22/16
Posts: 917
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbo...
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Steevo]
#25014259 - 02/22/18 07:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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So if you top fruit grain jars and get a good flush but have a bunch of in vitro fruits what do you do? Say hell with them and continue letting top flushes grow? Would they eventually revert back, or do you try and break them out of the grains when your top flushes dwindle? Just curious cause I've never had experience with top fruiting grain jars.
-------------------- Keep your feet on the ground and your head in the clouds
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#25014267 - 02/22/18 07:17 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wonder if I could call local mushroom farms and ask how they sterilize. I'm close to big ones and one is from a former shroomery member I think
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014270 - 02/22/18 07:17 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: dont those use steam??(not under pressure) im not trying to be one of those 'i can get away with it' types. i know what you mean stare.
im just asking a question.
No, I'm pretty sure they use steam and pressure. Maybe you can run some experiments with different sterilization times and longer waits between inoculating? Just for the hell of it.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Too lazy. My conclusions are based of side notes from inoculating 'control jars' I used to make when I was honing my skillz.
Some jars sat until they lost all moisture and were dried husks. Others I used. None molded unless I opened them.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014281 - 02/22/18 07:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: I wonder if I could call local mushroom farms and ask how they sterilize. I'm close to big ones and one is from a former shroomery member I think
I know of a few around me and oddly enough only one makes there own spawn in standard pc's the others actually pay to have it done
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Quote:
mushboy said: dont those use steam??(not under pressure) im not trying to be one of those 'i can get away with it' types. i know what you mean stare.
im just asking a question.
No, I'm pretty sure they use steam and pressure. Maybe you can run some experiments with different sterilization times and longer waits between inoculating? Just for the hell of it.
I know someone that will.. I´ll make very well hydrated grain so that it doesnt dry out if it stands for longer periods. I´ll do Like a canning procedure with unmodified lids so that grains come of of the PC hermetically sealed. I´ll keep the jars at a nice 25C to try to wake up whatever may be 'alive' in there. This should answer some questions at least. How do you think I should sterilize it? I´m thinking I wanna try 4h on 20PSI with a bunch of 300ml jars. I want to make sure that as much of the grain has been exposed for as high as temp as long as possible, so I can feel intuitively that NOTHING survived.
I almost want to support mushboys notion that grain can be sterilized so that it can remain 'sterile' for up to 4-5 months and be successfully inoculated and fruited after that. This is at least my notion but who the hell know before the test is done right? 
I think I´ll make me a tea and do a little WBS prep
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (02/22/18 08:00 PM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#25014376 - 02/22/18 07:50 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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gotta love community.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25014381 - 02/22/18 07:51 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whats your plan mateah
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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