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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25006576 - 02/19/18 07:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

Stare, the whole point behind the success with BRF to bulk is that new growers should be able to inoculate with bacterial spore solution and still have pretty consistent results with spawning to bulk. Fruiting miniature substrates such as BRF cakes inside a SGFC is pretty much doomed to be a not success for a new grower.




:confused:

It seems like a lot of your goals are to grow things with bacterial spawn in mind. I've seen you make mention of stuff like this more than a few times. That's not a view I I agree with. That's why I brought up your bacterial issues, not to be rude or hurtful. I just think it's more likely your grow failed due to something other than dunking a cake.

BRF to bulk is to get a bulk-size yield in a tub without needing a pressure cooker. You might use it to inoculate with bacterial spore solution, but that's not a given. And I hugely disagree that PF Tek is pretty much doomed to fail. No clue where you're getting that or that all syringes are inherently bacterial. Spores aren't clean, but properly made syringes from trusted vendors are very reliable, IME.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but you seem to think fruiting cakes in a SGFC is more likely to fail than shredding them to another substrate? That doesn't make sense.

I think it's time I dust off my wide-mouth 1/2 pints.



Cometely agree with everything you are saying stare...furthermore bacteria us not a worry for bulk substrates it is a grain spawn or cake issue


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
    #25006591 - 02/19/18 08:09 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Spawning cakes to bulk most certainly does not have a better chance than fruiting them as cakes. The exact opposite is true.

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Cakes are best fruited as cakes. If you are super concerned about pulling any kind of yield, the safe approach would be to just dunk and roll them, fruit them em in an sgfc. With that said, yes you can spawn them to a monotub. It will increase your chance of failure for a simple reason. Are you 100% sure your cakes are completely clean and safe to use as spawn? its hard to say, and as a beginner, its putting a lot on your inexperienced eyes to properly ID a truly clean cake. Another factor is, and I'm assuming, you inoculated your cakes with spores. The thing with spores is they are never truly clean because the fruits that laid them were not sterile themselves. Also consider that it only takes 1 dirty cake to ruin the other 7 clean ones, which would be a shame.

Ideally, a pf-cake that is spawned to a monotub would have been inoculated with an LC or LI syringe inside a ported sealed jar, to ensure sterility.




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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25006625 - 02/19/18 08:25 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
You're changing what you originally said with each post. First the point behind a successful BRF to bulk grow is that new growers can inoculate with bacterial solution. Now you're referencing the average weights. Right, I said the idea behind BRF to bulk is to get bulk yield without needing a pressure cooker. It has nothing to do with bacterial subs or inoculant. You're calling a spore syringe "bacterial solution" because of the "sheer amount of vendors out there." Uh, right.




:facepalm:
It seems like it´s very important to you Stare to make me out like I´m not serious about mycology and like I´m giving bad advice to noobs getting them to focus on the wrong aspects of growing, like trying to grow bacterial grows. I really don´t want to block you Stare, I have repeatedly asked you to check out the BRF to bulk thread and read all my posts there, you mentioned earlier that I shopuld make my self more clear with what I mean. Well If you read that thread it will become massively aparent to you that my goal is for noobs to SALVAGE their fully colonized cakes by spawning them instead of fruiting them as cakes. I am in no way telling them to do bacterial grows, in fact if you read the thread I am even advising inoculating BRF cakes with agar wedges.

Sorry Stare but you are TOTALLY and completely OFF when it comes to judge my roll here on shroomery, Mushboy is pretty close tho....

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
I don't think you're trying to grow bacteria, but you're constantly trying to figure out ways to make bacteria a success, which is ass backwards, IMO. Do whatever works out for you, for sure, but it's frustrating that you're seemingly spending your time recommending the best way to patch over bacteria instead of focusing on avoiding it in the first place. Just my opinion, but learning to do shit the right way and getting fruits is optimal and what the site is about (for me, at least).



I´m not constantly trying to make bacteria a success, and this is the fourth time I´m telling you this in this discussion, plus mushboy told you already once, I´m experimenting with bacterial spawn (since I already had a ton of it at that time) and I noticed that I can still get an ounce per qt in the first flush. If this is ass backwards to you then keep it to your self. I want to educate myself on what bacterial spawn can do, if that bothers you so much that you constantly have to try to make me out to be a bad person and not serious grower then maybe you should put me on ignore, cause I don´t feel like explaining this to you a fifth time in the same discussion.


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

I didn´t say Pf Tek is pretty much doomed to fail, I said new growers will put a lot of time and effort into Pf just to see a few puny fruits and dried out blue cakes in the SGFC. Or overly saturated cakes that won´t pin.




No, you didn't. You said it's, "pretty much doomed to be a not success for a new grower" which is a fail. Getting fruits is a success. You're changing what you said after the fact. But if you want to change it to, "the yields are smaller than BRF to bulk" then sure, since that's what it's for.



Getting a few fruits from 8 BRF cakes is not success by any means. Getting 70g per spawned cake on the first flush is SUCCESS.


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

Spawning to bulk is a much safer way to get fruits that fruiting as cakes in the SGFC.




Yeah, I don't agree. But to each their own.



Once again rad the god damn thread that I suggested and it will become much more clear to you what new growers think of fruiting cakes as cakes and what they think about spawning cakes to bulk. But stop talking out of your ass when you have all the information before you, read the thread, see what I mean and lets discuss it further without all the misunderstanding.


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

An average Spore solution should be regarded as bacterial even if ever so slightly simply because of the sheer amount of vendors out there.




Yeah, that doesn't make sense. And like I said, buying syringes from trusted vendors are pretty reliable.



Yes it makes sense, why do you think we don´t advise syringes in the first place? Because syringess are reliable? What are you even talking about man?


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Cakes inside Water Tub


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
    #25006640 - 02/19/18 08:38 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Spawning cakes to bulk most certainly does not have a better chance than fruiting them as cakes. The exact opposite is true.

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Cakes are best fruited as cakes. If you are super concerned about pulling any kind of yield, the safe approach would be to just dunk and roll them, fruit them em in an sgfc. With that said, yes you can spawn them to a monotub. It will increase your chance of failure for a simple reason. Are you 100% sure your cakes are completely clean and safe to use as spawn? its hard to say, and as a beginner, its putting a lot on your inexperienced eyes to properly ID a truly clean cake. Another factor is, and I'm assuming, you inoculated your cakes with spores. The thing with spores is they are never truly clean because the fruits that laid them were not sterile themselves. Also consider that it only takes 1 dirty cake to ruin the other 7 clean ones, which would be a shame.

Ideally, a pf-cake that is spawned to a monotub would have been inoculated with an LC or LI syringe inside a ported sealed jar, to ensure sterility.






If one uses up a whole syringe to inoculate 10 cakes then chances are that there is bacteria in one or several cakes.
I have ONLY had success with spawning cakes to bulk, both with syringes, LI and LC, and now I have 8 cakes fully colonized that were inoculated with agar wedge.

I´m also going after the reports of active growers that are spawning to bulk and they are reporting the same success rate and the same yields that I have experienced in over 30 tubs. I also remember the 30-40 cakes that I fruited inside a SGFC and had very low success rate that way.

Remember I´m talking about new growers that are not confident in maintaining proper micro climate inside a SGFC we all know that that´s much easier acomplished inside a tub. This is really all I´m saying, I know that good growers can have good success with BRF cakes inside SGFC. It´s not a horrible FC if you know what you´re doing. But no one can deny that 200ml small substrates with huge surface area should be inside a tub that has 500 hols in it, that´s my take on it at least and the evidence and testimonials from new growers confirm this for me.


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Cakes inside Water Tub


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006646 - 02/19/18 08:41 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I can hardly agree with stare about what color the sky is, but.. I'd be the fool to disagree in this case.  You don't "salvage" fully colonized cakes by spawning them to bulk.  You take your eggs in lots of baskets and you put them into fewer baskets, which is exactly what beginners shouldn't be doing.

If someone isn't able to sit down and read the PF tek and execute it properly then they're going to fail at almost anything they do anyway.  Maintaining the microclimate isn't really an issue since it would maintain itself if the directions were followed, which they would need to be for anything else as well.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
    #25006654 - 02/19/18 08:46 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I can hardly agree with stare about what color the sky is, but.. I'd be the fool to disagree in this case.  You don't "salvage" fully colonized cakes by spawning them to bulk.  You take your eggs in lots of baskets and you put them into fewer baskets, which is exactly what beginners shouldn't be doing.

If someone isn't able to sit down and read the PF tek and execute it properly then they're going to fail at almost anything they do anyway.  Maintaining the microclimate isn't really an issue since it would maintain itself if the directions were followed, which they would need to be for anything else as well.



New growers are not always lazy, they read everything and do everything correct, but fruiting small substrates inside a SGFC can go sount fast, and be harder to replace the balance when a substrate is either too dry or too wet. This is more easily accomplished inside a tub with bulk.

And the whole point is that when you put all these eggs in the same basket you STILL end up with more shrooms that individual eggs inside the SGFC :shrug:

And this is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of all the people spawning BRF to bulk that I talk with :shrug:


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree. There's nothing beneficial about this conversion at this point and I don't want anyone to incorrectly assume BRF to bulk or that standard PF Tek are bad methods of cultivation.



Try convincing the growers inthis thread about cakes in SGFC being better than cakes spawned.


Edited by Mateja (02/19/18 08:51 PM)


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006669 - 02/19/18 08:56 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Again, you're changing around what was originally being discussed so it's kind of pointless to continue the discussion. I never said SGFC cakes were better than bulk spawned. That wasn't the point of contention. I disagree with virtually everything you're saying but don't want to derail the thread anymore. Best of luck in your myco pursuits.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25006683 - 02/19/18 09:04 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

There's really no derailing in general discussion.  If it stays civil and cult related, it ships.  If we're at the point that it can't stay civil and continue well then.. I'm familiar with that.  All the same, don't want anyone in particular to feel like they're "derailing the thread" when it's hardly on any tracks to begin with.  Even if I disagree with some of what gets posted, I'm all for the right to post it.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25006690 - 02/19/18 09:06 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Well..

I have some fruits to eat finally :vibin: cloned them they were in poor conditions lol.  Very abused.  Hopefully better conditions make this into a decent clone.

Only had one plate go bad recently. Feels good.

King oysters are ripping thru the grains (thanks stare.. Star..  :hatsoff:)


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
    #25006703 - 02/19/18 09:12 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with and support meteahs goal. If he distracts from his own goal or doesn't explain it properly? So what. It's his idea.

Ideas can change but people dont


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25006739 - 02/19/18 09:29 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Again, you're changing around what was originally being discussed so it's kind of pointless to continue the discussion. I never said SGFC cakes were better than bulk spawned. That wasn't the point of contention. I disagree with virtually everything you're saying but don't want to derail the thread anymore. Best of luck in your myco pursuits.



Please clarify what I have changed so we can get past that. Our discussion is as general as they come lol so no derailing here.

These kind of discussions are very informative, one the one side you say Stare that you disagree with virtually everything I say, and I say to you that you need to visit this thread and read all my posts there. If you disagree with virtually everything I say then you will disagree with many growers that will tell you something completely different. The best would be to read all the posts there but if you read only mine you will at least get the perfect picture of what I mean and what I preach. And by all means do read all the posts from all the growers there and you will start to appreciate this method of spawning BRF cakes to bulk.


What I strongly object to Stare is that you make it personal by questioning my integrity on the boards and questioning my passion for mycology. Those are very personal accusations and they do not belong in this discussion at all. Lets discuss cultivation without trying to say: "you are such, you seem such" the last thing I want is for a mod to close this discussion or something to that effect.

This is a really interesting topic that we have encountered and I´ll happily continue this discussion with you after you have read at least all my posts from that thread so that you can understand me perfectly.

If there is anything you wonder about just ask Stare. Peace


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


Edited by Mateja (02/19/18 09:34 PM)


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006770 - 02/19/18 09:46 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Is spawning cakes better than fruiting them? The answer is no.
Is fruiting cakes better then spawning? Again tje answer is no.
I say this because it is subjective to individual goals.
Pros of spawning are easier fruiting methods like mini monos which make a bit less work and give you more food more water more surface area and more mushrooms, not much to debate about that.

Pros of fruiting as cakes, easily done with very high BE very little in the way of work and give you a great understanding of our goals as cultivators.

The risks of spawning cakes has nothing to do with bacteria it is molds you need to worry about but even most new growers can spot a contaminated cake.

Like everything in our hobby it is all options available to us and up to us on hiw we decide to go about it.


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
    #25006801 - 02/19/18 10:01 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Pros of fruiting as cakes, easily done with very high BE very little in the way of work



Even if you´re a complete beginner that knows next to nothing about how to maintain proper micro climate?

I disagree with this statement simply because I have fruited a lot of cakes inside SGFC and I have spawned a lot of BRF tubs.
Do you have this experience as well cron of doing both methods extensively? I´m not trying to be disrespectful at all, I´m just pointing to my experiences and the experiences of others that have fruited cakes as cakes and spawned them to tubs.

For us who have done this it is obviously clear as day that the chances of success is much greater when spawned rather than fruited inside SGFC.
If some new grower who has tried both methods and found out that the success rate is bigger with fruiting cakes as cakes, I would really like to hear how that person went about those grows. But the reality of this is that you will almost exclusively find new and old growers who have had better success with spawning cakes.


Quote:

Mateah said:
A few months back I finally got sick and tired of seeing all the pathetic results from cakes inside SGFC so I started to tell EVERYONE that they should spawn their cakes instead. I have no clue how many of those that took my advice that are having success today but feels damn good to see that BRF cakes finally start to produce good for everyone :dancer:



It´s a very interesting and informative thread, new and old growers should read it. I will post experiments there in the future as well. I will keep that thread alive and crammed with good info. There will ALWAYS be new growers that make an account and start to post when their BRF jars are almost fully colonized. It´s my honor to have incarnated at this moment in time so that I can steer the new BRF owners towards a safer way of harvesting a good yield :crazy2:


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Cakes inside Water Tub


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006804 - 02/19/18 10:03 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

i wouldnt say its 'clear as day' but i know i spawned cakes back when i did cakes for more yield.
if that was misguided in any way? who cares?? it still got me in the bulk spawning direction, which is where i wanted to go anyway.

i just didnt have a pc. imo spawning cakes is better for the overall process than just doing pf in a sgfc.

pf in a sgfc is a science project.
spawning to bulk is mans country:stoned:


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #25006822 - 02/19/18 10:12 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Perfect practice for future bulk grows :thumbup:
since the growers already have fully colonized cakes, why not practice bulk while they wait
for their petri dishes or agar to arrive so they can start working with grain.

All my advice in the BRF to bulk thread is focused around noobs getting the most out of their grows, that´s why I also always advise using a top layer of coir. Some growers always reply that a top layer does not benefit the cube, but I say that a top layer benefits the new grower and increases the chances of him having a successful pinset.

Of course I don´t go out of my way to promote the top layer but to new growers I advise it. The point is I´m trying to help new growers do better, not the opposite...


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


Edited by Mateja (02/19/18 10:15 PM)


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006824 - 02/19/18 10:12 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

to each his own i guess.

i wanna spawn some brf cakes to bulk. guess ill grab some verm. thanks dood.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #25006831 - 02/19/18 10:16 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

It would be fun as hell if we did like a BRF to bulk month, nothing major, 5 brf cakes and everyone spawns a shoebox. haha there would be many different varieties and different yields as well, would be really interesting to see how everyone produced. I´d be down for this. :stoned:


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #25006839 - 02/19/18 10:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

anybody have a link to the pp5 deli containers similar to the ones josex uses and ships to 'merica?


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006842 - 02/19/18 10:21 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

i dont feel like using wide mouth jars, or buy any. so ill do like half pint sized pucks in a quart jar i guess.

later though. i have ...other things afoot.:evil:


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #25006843 - 02/19/18 10:21 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Pros of fruiting as cakes, easily done with very high BE very little in the way of work



Even if you´re a complete beginner that knows next to nothing about how to maintain proper micro climate?




its in the tek...


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