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flowstate
Stranger
Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 12
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Steevo]
#25005050 - 02/19/18 07:34 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've made BRF cakes with a verm layer. My cakes are pretty well on their way to being colonized. I am unclear on whether or not the very layer needs to colonize. It obviously doesn't colonize as well as the BRF but there does seem to be growth on it.
Additionally, my cakes are in 1/2 pints and I don't know if I didn't fill them up enough or if the shrinkage is normal but my cakes seem to be quite small. About an inch of cake and maybe half inch of verm. I would say that the BRF is pretty well colonized.
I'm not sure what to do with my verm layer once I'm ready to birth.
I have multiple projects going on (first grow).
I cleaned up 5 different strains on agar. I inoculated about 12 different brf cakes with syringes.
I tried a P2G with one of my cakes into 5 grain jars. I have another set of jars that I agar2grained (pint and quart).
Everything seems to be moving along nicely, I've just sort of overwhelmed myself and not too sure how to proceed with these cakes.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: flowstate]
#25005189 - 02/19/18 09:20 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Fuck winnowing prep it all together. Your mushrooms won't care
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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00Burnout
That one guy



Registered: 05/02/16
Posts: 2,186
Loc: Ozarks
Last seen: 6 months, 21 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25005227 - 02/19/18 09:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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 There's all kinds of crap in my oats, bits of straw, pieces of corn, and some sort of pellets (minerals I'm guessing). Just skim off the floaters during prep if you're worried about it.
-------------------- Peace, pot and microdot! No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout Ghetto Greenhouse Trade List https://psychedelia.space
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
#25005228 - 02/19/18 09:43 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cook the bugs Fuckem. More nutes for the mushies and knock points
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#25005260 - 02/19/18 09:56 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Haha I'm sure they would love a little insect protein.
Thanks crispy. I wish you guys lived closer, he was trying to give it away. And he'll be harvesting kinda soon and said he really won't know what to do with it. He also has a abundance of straw.
I'll try to build a little setup using some screen and a vacuum plenum. Hooked up to a shop vac. Maybe a fan as well. This will all be done in my basement so I want to keep the mess minimal.
I'll post pictures when I get around to building it. I think I'll be working on my PID controlled pasteurizer this weekend. My last fittings arrived Saturday.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: flowstate]
#25005294 - 02/19/18 10:17 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
flowstate said: I've made BRF cakes with a verm layer. My cakes are pretty well on their way to being colonized. I am unclear on whether or not the very layer needs to colonize. It obviously doesn't colonize as well as the BRF but there does seem to be growth on it.
Additionally, my cakes are in 1/2 pints and I don't know if I didn't fill them up enough or if the shrinkage is normal but my cakes seem to be quite small. About an inch of cake and maybe half inch of verm. I would say that the BRF is pretty well colonized.
I'm not sure what to do with my verm layer once I'm ready to birth.
The verm layer is specifically to provide a non-nutritious barrier between the outside air and the nutrient-rich substrate below. This way, if anything falls through your lid holes, they won't get to the BRF mix and will have trouble germinating on verm. The myc can grow up to the verm and eat a bit, but they don't need to and it's not a big deal either way. It likely won't.
Once you birth the cakes at 100% and after consolidation, you wipe off the verm layer while rinsing it under a sink. Again, it's the barrier that caught dirty stuff from the air, so just wipe it off and toss it.
I'd need pictures of your cakes. But I think they should be bigger than 1" of sub, from what I remember. They will shrink a bit though due to the mycelium eating the substrate. It's possible the verm barrier fell down the sides as it shrunk and is making the sub look shorter.
Keep up the good work. You're doing lots of stuff. It's fun, isn't it? I got started doing tons of shit at once and despite a few people being discouraging at the workload, I've found it to be insanely helpful to my cultivation knowledge.
Also, unless you're isolating a monoculture on agar (literally a single strain of dikaryotic mycelium) you're not cleaning up strains, so to speak. A strain is 2 spores that germinate and do the fungal version of sex, joining together via clamp connections. A plate you dropped spores to (whether through syringe or print) will have thousands of strains present. And something like "Albino A+" or "Treasure Coast" is called a "variety" (of Psilocybe cubensis).
Happy growing, bro! Glad to have you here!
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Simple to understand and informative.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
Edited by van hatton (02/19/18 10:30 AM)
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flowstate
Stranger
Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 12
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
The verm layer is specifically to provide a non-nutritious barrier between the outside air and the nutrient-rich substrate below. This way, if anything falls through your lid holes, they won't get to the BRF mix and will have trouble germinating on verm. The myc can grow up to the verm and eat a bit, but they don't need to and it's not a big deal either way. It likely won't.
Once you birth the cakes at 100% and after consolidation, you wipe off the verm layer while rinsing it under a sink. Again, it's the barrier that caught dirty stuff from the air, so just wipe it off and toss it.
I'd need pictures of your cakes. But I think they should be bigger than 1" of sub, from what I remember. They will shrink a bit though due to the mycelium eating the substrate. It's possible the verm barrier fell down the sides as it shrunk and is making the sub look shorter.
Keep up the good work. You're doing lots of stuff. It's fun, isn't it? I got started doing tons of shit at once and despite a few people being discouraging at the workload, I've found it to be insanely helpful to my cultivation knowledge.
Also, unless you're isolating a monoculture on agar (literally a single strain of dikaryotic mycelium) you're not cleaning up strains, so to speak. A strain is 2 spores that germinate and do the fungal version of sex, joining together via clamp connections. A plate you dropped spores to (whether through syringe or print) will have thousands of strains present. And something like "Albino A+" or "Treasure Coast" is called a "variety" (of Psilocybe cubensis).
Happy growing, bro! Glad to have you here!
That helps. Thank you. I think my cakes look puny due to both the verm falling down the sides and me not using enough BRF. But yeah as far as the agar, I just meant learning the technique and getting some nice growth on agar before i got my grains involved.
Anyways, Thanks for the encouragement.
A few more questions if you don't mind (anyone )
Assuming my cakes are undersized, I can just expect less of a harvest from such cakes, am I understanding that? Does that put them at any risk of not fruiting at all?
Given the small cakes, I will probably try and spawn a few to bulk, for experience's sake. Will I run into trouble spawning multi-MS syringe cakes into one tub? In case that was unclear, I noc'd up cakes with a syringe from a vendor, got growth on all of them (albeit small cakes) so would like to put say 2 or 3 cakes into 1 bulk substrate. Is that a real thing?
Thanks again for all the help guys. Hopefully I will have experience with all techniques and maybe even have a few mushrooms after my first grow :p
Sorry for no pics. Imagine 25 grain jars (quart and pint) with healthy mycelium growth, 12 cakes colonized and 20 or so agar cultures laying around :p Gonna have to give these jars away not too far down the line
We have:
GT B+ PE Huatala Costa Rica
IDK why I had to get 5....
Edited by flowstate (02/19/18 01:34 PM)
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00Burnout
That one guy



Registered: 05/02/16
Posts: 2,186
Loc: Ozarks
Last seen: 6 months, 21 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: flowstate]
#25005736 - 02/19/18 01:40 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Size of your cake doesn't determine whether or not it will fruit, genetics and environmental factors control that. With ms it is damn near impossible to not get fruits unless you don't maintain surface conditions. I've even seen someone grow out of a tic-tac container (or maybe it was floss).
As long as those cakes are clean you can spawn them to bulk with no problems. Use a cheese grater to get more inoculation points, or you can just crumble em if you don't wanna take the time to grate them. People do it often, it's a good way to get introduced to bulk if you're not ready for grain.
-------------------- Peace, pot and microdot! No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout Ghetto Greenhouse Trade List https://psychedelia.space
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: flowstate]
#25005740 - 02/19/18 01:45 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
flowstate said: But yeah as far as the agar, I just meant learning the technique and getting some nice growth on agar before i got my grains involved.
Yep. Just pointing out the difference between "strains" and "varieties" because it can cause confusion down the line.
Quote:
Assuming my cakes are undersized, I can just expect less of a harvest from such cakes, am I understanding that? Does that put them at any risk of not fruiting at all?
If they're healthy, they'll still fruit. Yes, smaller cakes will mean less nutrition available (which I just consider overall energy the mycelium has to expend during fruiting) so probably a smaller yield. But they're not going to be more likely to contaminate or just not fruit.
Quote:
Given the small cakes, I will probably try and spawn a few to bulk, for experience's sake. Will I run into trouble spawning multi-MS syringe cakes into one tub? In case that was unclear, I noc'd up cakes with a syringe from a vendor, got growth on all of them (albeit small cakes) so would like to put say 2 or 3 cakes into 1 bulk substrate. Is that a real thing?
I went immediately to bulk growing with agar after my first BRF grow so I never spawned cakes like that, but this isn't an issue. You can spawn cakes with different varieties to the same grow because they're the same species. Yes, just soak them like you normally would after birthing and crumble them to a bulk substrate. Confirm with others on the ideal ratio though.
Quote:
Gonna have to give these jars away not too far down the line
You can refrigerate BRF cakes and use them for stuff later, by the way. Also agar.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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I hate to be that guy no I don't but Quote:
multi-MS syringe
the m in ms stands for multi, saying this is like saying atm machine... Atm stands for automated transfer machine.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25006115 - 02/19/18 04:16 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It starts for automated teller machine.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
#25006159 - 02/19/18 04:33 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Upon further searching I found this contraption http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedcleaner.html
I think I'm going to go this route. I'll let you all know how it works.
I know the myc doesn't care about the extras in the grain, but my OCD does. This rye is super dusty.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tookitooki]
#25006191 - 02/19/18 04:46 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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That looks like a lot of work. I'll take a video of the one we use at work later
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: flowstate]
#25006233 - 02/19/18 05:09 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
stareatclouds said: You can spawn cakes with different varieties to the same grow because they're the same species. Yes, just soak them like you normally would after birthing and crumble them to a bulk substrate. Confirm with others on the ideal ratio though.
I would not recommend dunking BRF cakes before spawning, first you will end up with a mesh of low volume spawn which defeats the purpose in the first place of having spawn with a huge volume like grated BRF cakes that have not been dunked. Also dunked cakes after spawn will recover more slowly or not at all.
4 grated 1/2 pins cakes should have a volume of about 1.5-2qt, and that is usually mixed with 1-2qt coir or CVG. I only spawn to coir with great results and 3 day colonization of bulk substrate.
Quote:
flowstate said: Given the small cakes, I will probably try and spawn a few to bulk, for experience's sake. Will I run into trouble spawning multi-MS syringe cakes into one tub? In case that was unclear, I noc'd up cakes with a syringe from a vendor, got growth on all of them (albeit small cakes) so would like to put say 2 or 3 cakes into 1 bulk substrate. Is that a real thing?
This thread has all the info you need and you can ask there is you want more detailed explanation of how to do BRF to bulk. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24945782
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (02/19/18 05:10 PM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#25006258 - 02/19/18 05:23 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is a "mesh of low volume spawn" and why would a dunked cake suddenly not recover? I've never crumbled BRF cakes, but I can't see how hydrating a consolidated block of mycelium would suddenly kill it. If this happened to you, I'd say it's more likely because most of your grows are bacterial, no offense.
It might make actually grating it more difficult, but you should still be able to hand crumble. I'm sure the bulk sub would have enough moisture either way, but dunking shouldn't kill healthy mycelium. People have spawned BRF slurries straight to bulk and had everything go well.
But again, I did BRF one time and moved to bulk growing, and didn't spawn cakes to bulk who knows. I just don't remember my cakes being mushy after their dunk.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: Atm stands for automated transfer machine.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: It starts for automated teller machine.

automated transaction machine. haha im bein a dick i have no clue
back in the day when i did cakes for spawning, id dunk them but i let them 'dry' first. because i noticed really wet cakes fucked with the coco mix and were slower to recover.
but that was over 12yrs ago maybe my memory is fucked.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25006283 - 02/19/18 05:39 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I could see it being better to just spawn them without dunking for newer growers since it might fuck up the moisture content, but there's no way dunking a cake kills it. Either the cake was already fucked or your sub wound up way too wet (which is why not dunking might be better). Either way, I'd just listen to Mateah, flowstate. He's done this successfully a bunch so he can't be too wrong.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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its not that dunking killed the cake at all. i agree with you, if the cakes fucked, its fucked. i probably made the mistake of taking a dunked cake and putting it straight in a baggie to crush up. without drying.
the extra water on the cake, sometimes, would make a more mushy mixture. especially if the pf mix is noobed up in the first place then that slightly mushy cake would be spawned to probably over hydrated, noobed up, coco...then drenched with too much misting.
thats how noobs roll..
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