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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910145 - 01/13/18 09:18 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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If the coir is phenol rich (pH 5.5), mold can germinate, and colonize after a "long" period, amplified if too wet.
Coir has a pH range of 5.5 - 6.8, so the less acidic the coir the better, dung is like pH 6.5 - 7+.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#24910146 - 01/13/18 09:18 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
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TheBlackCat said: It's ok. I just spray it down after. No time for stuffing jars.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't it a vector (and bad practice)
not if your using coir. then who cares?
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the act of spawning, scraps mycelium on the grains. This presents bare grain that the mold can grow on.
says who? im not trying to sound rude that just makes no sense to me. like my posts before ninja edits
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910150 - 01/13/18 09:21 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Well when you shake your grain or mix it around, anything rubbing against it will scrape a bare spot.
I think there is more at play when a pet is involved. Such as a terrarium having a screen top. This would assist in drying it out. What about urine from the pet, what does it do to the PH of things, does it put it outside what mold would like? It is a very complicated equation with many variables that I feel people try to play down to much.
I am not saying it is or is not the coir. I am trying to point out that it is not all black and white, there is a lot of grey area in between that does need to be taken into account.
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mushboy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24910153 - 01/13/18 09:22 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: If the coir is phenol rich (pH 5.5), mold can germinate, and colonize after a "long" period, amplified if too wet.
Coir has a pH range of 5.5 - 6.8, so the less acidic the coir the better, dung is like pH 6.5 - 7.
but this just kinda flies in the face of millions of pet owners imo. they dont use ph buffers in coco bedding. if it randomly mold? they just throw it out and get more and keep it rolling. its a freak occurrence in pet ownership.
as should moldy tubs in mushcult if your spawn is CLEAN.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: bare spot.
define a 'bare spot' for me. because the myc colonizes the hulls and eats the germ(im guessing) so by that logic then EVERY jar anyone has every shaken or spawned is a mold vector??? because of bare spots?
*ment to edit. sorry for double posting
Quote:
with many variables that I feel people try to play down to much
and i think its played up way to much to compensate for lack of clean spawn/cultivation skills. which will make some people think im an asshole but
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#24910162 - 01/13/18 09:25 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
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TheBlackCat said: It's ok. I just spray it down after. No time for stuffing jars.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't it a vector (and bad practice) to add non pasteurized water to a non colonized bulk sub? As said before, with clean spawn it shouldn't be a huge deal but I would never trust non treated water in my pasteurized sub
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the act of spawning, scraps mycelium on the grains. This presents bare grain that the mold can grow on.
the grain is colonized through. Not just the outside
But your over looking the fact that you scraped the surface clean. Trich don't give no fucks if mycelium colonized the inside as Trich eats the mycelium. Any bare grain gives a mold spore, that comes in contact with it, a chance to germinate and grow. To deny that this is a possibility is ridiculous. None of this has had real scientific studies performed and most of what we know is based off of simple observations. Now if your spawn is good you should never see mold, from this, before 1st flush, hell probably 2nd flush.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910167 - 01/13/18 09:28 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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mushboy said:people would not use coco coir for pets if it molded and got nasty.
As per bedding it isn't wet enough to support growth of anything
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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mushboy
modboy



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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Any bare grain gives a mold spore, that comes in contact with it, a chance to germinate and grow. To deny that this is a possibility is ridiculous.
the bare grain theory is ridiculous
someone else with more experience wanna tell me to shut up?
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tryptkaloids said:
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mushboy said:people would not use coco coir for pets if it molded and got nasty.
As per bedding it isn't wet enough to support growth of anything
read the directions on the bricks label. its brought to field capacity per instructions. its the same process.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910171 - 01/13/18 09:29 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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I'm not saying do anything, that is up to you. Just saying coir "can" germinate mold-other. I only disagree with your wording, you make coir sound utterly impervious.
I do understand your meaning of a fast rotation-usage.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] 2
#24910172 - 01/13/18 09:29 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
Quote:
TheBlackCat said: It's ok. I just spray it down after. No time for stuffing jars.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't it a vector (and bad practice)
not if your using coir. then who cares?
Quote:
the act of spawning, scraps mycelium on the grains. This presents bare grain that the mold can grow on.
says who? im not trying to sound rude that just makes no sense to me. like my posts before ninja edits
if you look at your grains when you spawn, you will see that we have beat the shit out of the mycelium on the grains. It was 100% covered when in the jar at full colonization, but now you have beat it against other grains and coir while mixing. The rubbing of anything against it can create a spot with no mycelium on the surface, this would be bare grain. YES THE MYCELIUM SHOULD RECOLONIZE IT FAST ENOUGH, but is it was not mold spore that came in contact with that bare spot, but instead fragmented trich mycelium. It would not take as long to get foot hold as with a spore.
Honestly why do we tell people to get moldy ass tubs away from other grows then? Obviously we all know that there is a way for that mold to spread to other tubs, which would most likely be during spawning. During spawning how is it that those mold spores can get a foot hold if they are not presented with a food source that they can use, such as grains that have had the mycelium scraped away from them.
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Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#24910175 - 01/13/18 09:31 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
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the act of spawning, scraps mycelium on the grains. This presents bare grain that the mold can grow on.
the grain is colonized through. Not just the outside
get some trich spore solution and spray that on a tub you just spawned, bet it will mold
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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maybe from your eyes? but you mean to tell me shaking strips all the myc away from the grain leaving it exposed and a open vector? explain dunking grains then.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


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Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910186 - 01/13/18 09:35 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: bare spot.
define a 'bare spot' for me. because the myc colonizes the hulls and eats the germ(im guessing) so by that logic then EVERY jar anyone has every shaken or spawned is a mold vector??? because of bare spots?
*ment to edit. sorry for double posting
Quote:
with many variables that I feel people try to play down to much
and i think its played up way to much to compensate for lack of clean spawn/cultivation skills. which will make some people think im an asshole but 
YES AND NO. It is very complicated. If you shake a jar and create a bare spot as I call it, then spawn in a trich heavy area, such as one that had tubs left to mold, then it increases chances. If this is done in an area where mold is kept to a minimum it is not such a big issue.
This is played up to much by some as well as played down to much by others. I am trying to say there is no cut and dry aspect to this. There is to much at play to simply blame one thing. I have had beautiful jars trich out in tub, probably due to my over hydration of the sub. What I am trying to get across is there is constantly this mentality to blame spawn as soon as someone fails.
Even with clean spawn it you scrape away the mycelium on some grains, and then it comes in contact with fragmented trich mycelium, well your probably going to get trich. Will it come before 1st flush, after or at all. Only time tells us. The fact that we are fighting things we can not see makes it that much harder.
@ Mush, NOT all mycelium. It only takes one grain, that has had some mycelium scraped away, coming in contact with mold spores or fragmented mycelium.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24910193 - 01/13/18 09:39 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Any bare grain gives a mold spore, that comes in contact with it, a chance to germinate and grow. To deny that this is a possibility is ridiculous.
the bare grain theory is ridiculous
someone else with more experience wanna tell me to shut up?
Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
Quote:
mushboy said:people would not use coco coir for pets if it molded and got nasty.
As per bedding it isn't wet enough to support growth of anything
read the directions on the bricks label. its brought to field capacity per instructions. its the same process.
I don't think it is ridiculous NOR the reason. It is only one small variable in a huge equations. Its not like I am saying that it will make or break a grow. Just that it can be a potential vector and to simply ignore it as a possibility is ridiculous.
PLEASE explain how grains, with even a small bare patch, can not potentially let a trich mycelium fragment get a foot hold in a grow. I choose trich as well all know it eats mushroom mycelium. So once it has a point of entry it can go on the offensive.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said:
YES AND NO. It is very complicated. If you shake a jar and create a bare spot as I call it, then spawn in a trich heavy area, such as one that had tubs left to mold, then it increases chances. If this is done in an area where mold is kept to a minimum it is not such a big issue.
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@ Mush, NOT all mycelium. It only takes one grain, that has had some mycelium scraped away, coming in contact with mold spores or fragmented mycelium.
maybe if your colony is weak and shitty?(bad spawn)
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What I am trying to get across is there is constantly this mentality to blame spawn as soon as someone fails.
thats not a mentality thats a fact though. - thats my point. the equation is simple. people over complicate it instead of making the problem smaller.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] 2
#24910202 - 01/13/18 09:41 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Coir is generally pretty resistant to mold but bricks of eco earth aren't exactly pure. They can be full of all kinds of crazy that mold will germinate on. I've had success sterilizing, pasteurizing, bucketing and just hydrating with tap water. But I've also seen coir go moldy without any spawn being added to it.
The key is to get your moisture content perfect and use lots of CLEAN SPAWN for fast colonization. If your sub is too wet, your mycelium will have a hard time colonizing it and you leave the door open for mold and bacteria. If your spawn isn't clean your grow is doomed from the start.
Coir is great stuff but it's not as bullet proof as some people might think.
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MudaFuka]
#24910207 - 01/13/18 09:43 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hey muda
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said:
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Any bare grain gives a mold spore, that comes in contact with it, a chance to germinate and grow. To deny that this is a possibility is ridiculous.
the bare grain theory is ridiculous
someone else with more experience wanna tell me to shut up?
Quote:
tryptkaloids said:
Quote:
mushboy said:people would not use coco coir for pets if it molded and got nasty.
As per bedding it isn't wet enough to support growth of anything
read the directions on the bricks label. its brought to field capacity per instructions. its the same process.
I don't think it is ridiculous NOR the reason. It is only one small variable in a huge equations. Its not like I am saying that it will make or break a grow. Just that it can be a potential vector and to simply ignore it as a possibility is ridiculous.
PLEASE explain how grains, with even a small bare patch, can not potentially let a trich mycelium fragment get a foot hold in a grow. I choose trich as well all know it eats mushroom mycelium. So once it has a point of entry it can go on the offensive.
If you have live trick mycelium in your spawn or sub. It's already contaminated.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MudaFuka]
#24910211 - 01/13/18 09:43 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hey
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MudaFuka] 1
#24910212 - 01/13/18 09:43 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
So once it has a point of entry it can go on the offensive.
clean spawn
the colony(myc) will recover quick enough before anything can germinate on that 'bare grain' if its HEALTHY. my point wasnt to say coir is bullet proof either. just to use the best protection possible and you are safe. (clean spawn)
everything else is a dramatic overstatement in my opinion. to guise crappy cultivation skills like i said before.
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