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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
    #24895975 - 01/07/18 09:13 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

I think you have muddled up my meaning, lets say I sterilized coir + trace grain flour, enough for a petri dish-other.
Then placed a clean sample onto it, as if it where agar, then take an isolate to grain for spawning.

The difference is I am isolating growth on the end media, coir + grain, not agar.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24895984 - 01/07/18 09:17 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

thats the concept behind brf pastes and shit like that.

my first 'agar' i ever did wasnt even agar and i didnt realize it. i called it brf agar paste. but it had no agar. and could be steamed.



if only i had a brain in 2005. but i 'inoculated' brf cakes.(not reliable i had no way of doing sterile work)


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896008 - 01/07/18 09:29 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Not that much flour, else it will paste as you mentioned, you want trace just enough to lightly feed it and not stick.
You want growth that decays grain and coir the best, enzymes and genetics, agar is sugar based.

For example to decay cellulose into glucose (sugar), it needs enzymes and detection.
Malt extract agar is sugar based, soluble, and needs little to no enzymes.

I could even go as far as change the pH and see if it improves.

----

You don't even need to use it, if you are testing changes.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896019 - 01/07/18 09:35 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

thats why i prefer malt for agar and LCs.

i thought changing nutes was a good thing. as in you dont want to use the SAME shit(coir based 'agar') from germination to spawning. and people use 2 different agar reciepes at a time for that reason i think.

ive also read its 'great for more power' or whatever because of xyz reasons about preferred food sources/genetics and leap off or someshit. its all confusing.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896044 - 01/07/18 09:49 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

I agree with varying composition, and keeping your master vigorous, but I still transfer and isolate growth on end media before fruiting.
You can even powder down some of the grain or seed spawn you are using and add trace to the coir, which is end media.

This is pretty much pre-domestication of a clean sample, prior to spawn, substrate and fruiting.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896049 - 01/07/18 09:52 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

oh i get ya. say i got my culture on MEA but instead of inoculating with that, i do 1 more transfer to a grain/coco media so the culture is already digesting those food sources.

what are the benefits of doing that?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24896062 - 01/07/18 09:58 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

The same as varying composition, detection of materials and compatible enzymes.
Running on sugars causes senescence after a while, it's too simple.

Example: cellulose > cellulase (enzyme) > sugars.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896067 - 01/07/18 10:00 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

right, thats why i mix it up with mea and brf broths but why the extra step to isolate on end media?

or have you answered and im just too high to figure it out?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24896090 - 01/07/18 10:15 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

I did, but i'll tray again

:smile:

Lets say you have some Cubensis on malt extract agar, clean and ready to go, it's running on sugars, not needing to detect much or produce enzymes.
The malt extract is "soluble", as if it where decayed by enzymes before the mycelium was added, the mycelium is having an easy free ride.

You now put an agar wedge to coir and trace grain flour, the mycelium must now detect the grain and coir, and make enzymes.
Once the enzymes decay the starch (amylase) and cellulose (cellulase) the mycelium will receive the "solubles".

The mycelium is happy because it can "spend" the sugars (carbon), by making enzymes, not getting fat.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896092 - 01/07/18 10:20 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

wouldnt the agar culture make the enzymes once its introduced to the grain. is it a time saver?

i understand if you have an older culture that might need a kick in the pants but im confused about the 'end media' application.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896117 - 01/07/18 10:45 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

More of a verification of the sample, prior to use, for example:

Agar > Grain spawn > Coir | Fruiting. Each step is a "new" introduction to a different media, and fruiting is still "new" to coir.

Agar > Coir + trace grain > Grain spawn + coir as grit > Coir | Fruiting. Only 1 step to the "new" media, then continued.

Thinking about it, the spawn + coir as grit should be enough.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896125 - 01/07/18 10:50 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

but ....why?? someone better dumb this shit down.

cause all him hearing is add an extra step to make the myc happy so it does ....what?
i feel the rational is specious and im trying to ask you whats the benefit and all im really absorbing is 'it makes sugar'
and then i ask whats the point? and the answer is still 'it makes sugar'

i got this new weed and maybe i way to high. also i dont know shit about mycology in the traditional sense so i apologize for  being so thick.

and if im interrupting it all wrong just tell me that and ill have to figure it out:thumbup:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896162 - 01/07/18 11:07 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

I was more talking about isolating growth, and went onto talking about end media.

Lets say you where doing some Cubensis from spores onto agar, and isolating growth, my point is you isolated growth on sugar.
If you then took a sample to spawn, there is no verification it will do well, even on coir, or produce bad end genetics.

If you isolated growth on the media or media(s) that you intend to fruit from, you get easy verification.
The isolated end result is then simply expanded onto the end media, fully verified to work.

Using the same small setup, you can also test other materials, pH, temperature, etc.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24896168 - 01/07/18 11:10 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

If you isolated growth on the media or media(s) that you intend to fruit from, you get easy verification.
The isolated end result is then simply expanded onto the end media, fully verified to work.




like a ton of bricks. i gotcha. sorry for coming across like im trying to debunk.
im more frustrated with my own lack of understanding more than anything.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896173 - 01/07/18 11:12 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Nah no probs dude, I can get Cubensis to decay wood and leaves (from spores), with minor adjustments.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896174 - 01/07/18 11:12 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

What he is doing allows the mycelium to "cut its teeth" and then be able to chew the shit out of the end media faster when inoculated/spawned. It is all ready making the enzymes to the leap of time is shorter. Where as if it has never come in contact with the end media and you just go from agar, it has to take time to detect the media and produce the enzymes. This could add a couple days for it to get going on grains.

At the same time he is isolating genetics that thrive on the end media where as on agar, weak genetics gets a free ride without doing any work. So he is basically separating the advanced placement kids from the special ed kids, leaving the special ed kids behind. I know not PC, but fuck it.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24896184 - 01/07/18 11:17 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

yah i gets it mang.

id pass some of this weed if i could.  so its a time saver in the regard that instead of cloning
from the shoebox you can clone a micro 'grow' then put those to larger grows and shit. because you already did the 'test' grows on the same media.


Edited by mushboy (01/07/18 11:26 AM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896225 - 01/07/18 11:35 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

however i still dont see the reason to do that. i equate lots of things about mushcult to music and food(passions).

doing that is really cool. its like a tiny-verse/micro universe that has the same stuff as a full on larger grow.
and you can get some bad ass genetics doing that im sure. and it seems like it would be kinda fun. so imma try it out.

but i dont like how it kinda bypasses all the practice that goes into clone hunting. by the time youve done
enough MS grows and growing out of clones and testing.. it takes a long time and lots of dedication. its
that dedication that truly develops the cultivator. whereas if you take the micro approach you are negating
and bypassing all the experience that goes into growing. what if your cultivation skills suck because you dont practice your chops??
but you have this bad ass culture. but you never took the time to learn how to fruit your tubs?
your 'gifted school' kid is now tossed into compton during the 90s because the cultivator hasnt honed their technique yet:shrug:

you are making the myc cut its teeth when you as the grower should be cutting your teeth doing the hard work:shrug:

stickily my opinion sorry if i offend. but its like using a drum machine in my eyes. im here to learn to play the drums.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24896228 - 01/07/18 11:37 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

I see your point, but once your good at what you do it can be a nice little tool in your toolbox.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24896233 - 01/07/18 11:39 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
but once your good at what you do it can be a nice little tool in your toolbox.




true. but ill never see myself as good. ill always need practice. the second i stop, i loose my mojo.


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