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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24836465 - 12/09/17 05:44 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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TaderHoagie
Hypernormalized


Registered: 10/21/17
Posts: 229
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24836510 - 12/09/17 06:08 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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the problem with WBS is every kind is different. I don't know if one has more milo, millet, or shitty cracked corn. One brand might only need a soak, and another might need a soak, simmer, or boil. There's too many variables in WBS for me.
Quote:
Ferather said:
Interesting, I like reading grain preps, I also have the same pocket scales.

Your experiments are very fascinating. Are you trying to "trick" cubensis into growing on wood, or turn them into genuine wood-lovers?
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TaderHoagie]
#24836518 - 12/09/17 06:12 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TaderHoagie said: the problem with WBS is every kind is different.
agreed. thats why soaking is badass. or timed and temp controlled shorter soaks.
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24836525 - 12/09/17 06:16 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: 24hr wbs soak

My experiments showed that there was hardly any diference between 7h soak and 24h soak, nowhere near of a significant difference, I have to admit Im glad I did those tests so I can have it black on white that mycelium perfers way more hydrated stuff than even a 48h soak will allow.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#24836528 - 12/09/17 06:18 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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yah me two. i have to do a similar ..test.. myself doing the same kind of hydration. ill also know if the grains are good just by doing the finger nail test
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MeltingNe0
Stranger


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 58
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tombosley8]
#24837149 - 12/10/17 06:50 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: foo man's WBS prep is the best!
+1
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TaderHoagie] 1
#24837154 - 12/10/17 06:53 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TaderHoagie said: ... Your experiments are very fascinating. Are you trying to "trick" cubensis into growing on wood, or turn them into genuine wood-lovers?
I doubt that converting them to wood loving is possible, unless they start to produce laccase (oxidizes plant phenol's-other). Cubensis wont run on phenol's as a primary carbon source, it requires trace sugar or pre-decay of a substrate.
Mycelium won't decay complex cellulose without an energy (carbon) source, it requires effort to decay. Wood loving mycelium will run using the phenol's, to provide what is needed to decay cellulose.
In order to get cubensis to decay, nutritionally rich tea bags, I had to add trace sugar. Cubensis does however, decay cellulose and utilize macro-micro nutrients.
Secondary effects of other enzymes, also causes phenol's to decay.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837171 - 12/10/17 07:08 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Laccase is an enzyme produced by lignicolous (wood loving) mycelium, it "specifically" targets plant phenol's-other for carbon.
The enzymes and the mycelium will decay and convert the phenol's-other into essential sugar + other units. This allows lignicolous to both germinate and run on natural wood (cellulose + phenol's).
The ultimate sum is: cellulose + starter carbon, then it's macro-micro nutrients.
Cellulose + spawn is the equivalent of pocket starter units.
Edited by Ferather (12/10/17 07:14 AM)
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Kyshroomer19xx
Est 19xx soldier



Registered: 04/22/17
Posts: 1,308
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837272 - 12/10/17 08:45 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting, I like reading grain preps, I also have the same pocket scales.
Lol I have the same one as well. Thanks for all the sources guys
-------------------- RIP tom petty Of course it is happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean it is not real? Albus Dumbledore
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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The electronics are perfect, very sensitive and 100% accurate, the plastic could be better. That being said the buttons are robust and good for big fingers, it's also back lit.
For the price I've had a better build quality, but no real complaints.
I got the MH-500, 500g x 0.01g, model for under £5.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837387 - 12/10/17 09:44 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I have seen your post about being able to add like 0.1g of fertilizer(micro-macro). Do you think using a low amount could potentially increase yield of cubes in say mono tubs? I remember reading, in a book, that mushrooms can create their own vitamins that they in turn use. I would think trace amounts of macro and micro would potentially boost production. Have you done any studies along these lines?
-------------------- JOIN THE POW WOW
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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They do produce their own everything as it happens, some materials in thier soluble form may directly transfer, e.g. protein > protein. However, mycelium ultimately turn [X] into [Y] based on needs, e.g. mycelium will use protein for both carbon, and nitrogen.
Given that mycelium will convert the carbon in protein into new cells, essential sugars, other, it's not transferred. Vitamins like proteins, contain carbon, some vitamins also contain nitrogen-other, they are disassembled.
This is why adding certain amounts of vitamins also has an effect on the carbon-nitrogen ratio.
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Do I think it will benefit cubensis? Yes, I've done 100% cellulose + macro-micro nutrients. Without adding sugar, or any starter carbon, no spawn, it took over 4 months.
Doing the same (WL-Tek), using grain spawn took only 2 weeks.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837417 - 12/10/17 10:05 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is some very interesting shit. I remember looking up vitamins, and found some info saying there was no increase in production from grinding up multi vitamins and adding it. Then some time later I read in the book, that the mycelium makes the vitamins it needs. So makes sense that adding vitamins doesn't really boost any thing as the mycelium is all ready making those needed vitamins.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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If you are wondering how it managed to colonize, even though it took 4 months, is because my water has lime in it. CaCO3 (lime, insoluble, inorganic) + CO2 + H20 (water) = calcium bicarbonate (soluble, inorganic).
The bicarbonate is absorbed and utilized as fit, mostly to grow on cellulose.
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: This is some very interesting shit. I remember looking up vitamins, and found some info saying there was no increase in production from grinding up multi vitamins and adding it. Then some time later I read in the book, that the mycelium makes the vitamins it needs. So makes sense that adding vitamins doesn't really boost any thing as the mycelium is all ready making those needed vitamins.
Was the tested vitamins soluble, or reactive to convert to soluble in the presence of mycelium? If they cannot be made soluble they cannot be absorbed, else that is interesting.
They add vitamins to yeast nutrient, to improve fermentation with yeast. Also the vitamins may contain just carbon-hydrogen-oxygen.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837445 - 12/10/17 10:26 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do not know if they used soluble. I didn't think anything about that.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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No problem, it's constantly overlooked, alongside the end pH of the media.
Basic flow guide:
Material > Soluble, Can Be Soluble > Absorbed > Effect-Result.
Enzymes:
Material > Decay > Solubles > Absorb > Do Stuff.
Enzymes have pH restrictions.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837498 - 12/10/17 10:53 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess I should have found a way to check the PH of my wood lover agar I made. It was made from shredded tree waste from tree trimings, so it has wood chips, twigs, leaves and what ever else was in the tree. I boiled it for a while. Then strained everything out and cooked down the "tea" some. I imagine my PH is probably out of wake, but I will see what happens with some wood lovers on it.
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Tookitooki
Mycological Fabricator



Registered: 07/28/16
Posts: 1,157
Loc: Nowhere
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837603 - 12/10/17 11:58 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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So as the seasons change, so does the manner in which I need to dial in my fruiting closet. In the winter time in my house, I run in to the same issue with surface conditions. I have the old cast iron radiators and my house gets super dry. I can mist my tubs and 30 mins later the glisten is gone. The walls of the tubs are heavily condensated. The sub is wet to the touch. But I don't get the glisten. My mono tub won't get the dry rings around the holes either, but also won't maintain that nice glisten.
I'm going out today to get a humidifier for my room, that the closet is in. But the rh of the closet stays between 25-35%.
The temps stay between 68-75. Could this be a dew point factor? Even without a glisten I don't want to mist my tubs, cause they are close to being saturated. I'm also installing a small bathroom vent fan too help with the fae. From my lights in there, I was getting temp spikes of 80+. I moved the lights from being under each shelf and wall mounted them the closet stabilized out. But I still feel that there is a build up of heat.
This is what it was,

This is how I have the lights now.

Not sure which way to go from here to fix it.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: I guess I should have found a way to check the PH of my wood lover agar I made. It was made from shredded tree waste from tree trimings, so it has wood chips, twigs, leaves and what ever else was in the tree. I boiled it for a while. Then strained everything out and cooked down the "tea" some. I imagine my PH is probably out of wake, but I will see what happens with some wood lovers on it.
I'm using a cheap digital pH pen that calibrate's, it came with soluble sachet's to calibrate it at 25°C. Use 27-28°C water, add the power and mix well, by now it will be close to 25°C (measure).
Stick the pen into the solution and calibrate it with the screwdriver. Paper strips even when white, are still an eye-it-up method.
I think mine cost me £7.00 (UK), or around that.
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Adding natural extractives (water soluble), turned out to be a amazing idea overall. You can refer to my T-Gel agar recipe, below, it uses tea extractives.
The extractives contain lots of the plants phenol's-other.
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We know that lignicolous mycelium detect and utilize phenol's-other for essential carbon. This limits the organisms that can both germinate, and utilize the cellulose.
So starch and sugar are not as "essential" to lignicolous mycelium.
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Now, for example I wanted to utilize a wood, because that's what I can get, say pine. That wood will be composed of cellulose + phenol's-other as carbon.
Isolating growth that does well, should do well on the wood.
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Using black tea, "appears" to be fairly universal.
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Kyshroomer19xx
Est 19xx soldier



Registered: 04/22/17
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24837720 - 12/10/17 01:12 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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To dunk a shoebox should I just fill it with water and put a little weight on the sub an let it sit like that for a few hours? I
-------------------- RIP tom petty Of course it is happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean it is not real? Albus Dumbledore
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