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OfflineKyshroomer19xx
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Piaseski]
    #24807391 - 11/26/17 11:17 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Those squared off blades are really good for taking agar wedges ime.




Your right I love that blade when I do transfers too


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Kyshroomer19xx]
    #24807405 - 11/26/17 11:26 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

O so thanks guys, printed 2 caps over 12 hours and they're fine.  Think that one just didn't drop many spores :shrug:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PreparationH]
    #24807747 - 11/26/17 01:50 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone ever dunked a cake in lime or wood ash water, what where the results?

:takingnotes:


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24807793 - 11/26/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I personally love xacto blades. But people do try to use the blades too long. You need a pack of 50-100 and 3-4 handles all with blades. Ill switch to a new handle because eventually they get hot from flaming. Also the blades get shitty. They don't last long at all after we remove all the hardening when we sterilize them with fire




Yup. I hated having to wrap it in foil to keep it from burning the shit out of my hand. I felt like that was an added vector for me. These blades last much longer as well.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24809332 - 11/27/17 10:01 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've got a plate I've let grown out to pin from a culture I've been working with that was growing a little odd, fucker finally started pinning and put my mind at ease. 6 transfers and it's never gone rhizo, no sectoring and it was very whispy but fast. It looked a lot like some liberty cap mycelium that I've seen on here.

On another note, my first grain jars are almost 100% colonized. Should I give em another shake just to be sure everything is kosher or just let it be till spawning time?


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24809342 - 11/27/17 10:05 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Burnout,

1. There's nothing special about rhizomorphic mycelium. A rhizo vs. tomentose appearance is often dictated by nutrients available in your agar, e.g., less nutrients = more rhizomorphic growth because the myc is stretching out in search of food.

2. You should've shaken way before 100% to check this. The standard is 30%, although it's not hard science dictating that. If they look good and are near 100%, I would personally just fruit them. But next time, give them a shake long before 100%.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24809367 - 11/27/17 10:13 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Burnout,

1. There's nothing special about rhizomorphic mycelium. A rhizo vs. tomentose appearance is often dictated by nutrients available in your agar, e.g., less nutrients = more rhizomorphic growth because the myc is stretching out in search of food.

2. You should've shaken way before 100% to check this. The standard is 30%, although it's not hard science dictating that. If they look good and are near 100%, I would personally just fruit them. But next time, give them a shake long before 100%.



I was only wanting rhizo because at the time I started agar work because I was going to jump into isolating. Was being the key word.

I shook them at 30% that's why I said another shake. They recovered in less than 24hr.


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No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24809431 - 11/27/17 10:41 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

00Burnout said:
Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Burnout,

1. There's nothing special about rhizomorphic mycelium. A rhizo vs. tomentose appearance is often dictated by nutrients available in your agar, e.g., less nutrients = more rhizomorphic growth because the myc is stretching out in search of food.

2. You should've shaken way before 100% to check this. The standard is 30%, although it's not hard science dictating that. If they look good and are near 100%, I would personally just fruit them. But next time, give them a shake long before 100%.



I was only wanting rhizo because at the time I started agar work because I was going to jump into isolating. Was being the key word.

I shook them at 30% that's why I said another shake. They recovered in less than 24hr.




t has never made sense to me when growers talk about rizo coming from low nutrients and tomentose from high nutrients. I see rizo growth on all kind of grain and in BRF cakes. I see rizo growth on 4% BRF Agar and I see tomentose on 2% BRF agar.  :shrug:

I see a 'general' consensus about low nutes = rizo but I don't see this when I look at colonizing grain, BRF cakes and agar.
Idk what to believe anymore... have to do more experiments.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #24809453 - 11/27/17 10:52 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Rhizo happens.
Switching to lower nutrition sometimes causes it, that's all.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24809517 - 11/27/17 11:16 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Mateah,

The nutrients on agar aren't the only factor. Some strains are just going to look like something regardless.

Burn,

FWIW, "another shake" doesn't specifically imply a previous check-up shake. Many inoculation methods require shaking at the beginning, such as G2G, liquids, etc. No, don't shake again, just spawn them.

Getting an isolate is easier if you start from a clone. There's limited genetics in a mushroom fruit as the strains grow together (research anastomosis) during the whole process. Although an isolate by itself is nothing special until you know it'll perform to your liking (which is why people start from clones).

Anyway, play with nutrients to see if that helps. Or just keep taking transfers until you notice sectors.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24809563 - 11/27/17 11:36 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Ahh good point clouds. I just did good ole wedges but thank you. I'll be spawning them in the next day or 2.

I had started from spores for the sake of experience, but I've since decided I need to focus more on just growing mushrooms and become 100% confident in my practices before I take a crack at isolates.

I might try reducing my nutrients a bit the next time I whip up a batch of agar. My media bottle is sitting in the fridge about half full.

I'm going to go through and test the cultures I have and toss the ones I don't care for. I've got more plates than I have time or space to deal with presently.


--------------------
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No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24809649 - 11/27/17 12:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
A rhizo vs. tomentose appearance is often dictated by nutrients available in your agar, e.g., less nutrients = more rhizomorphic growth because the myc is stretching out in search of food.





Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Rhizo happens.
Switching to lower nutrition sometimes causes it, that's all.





I just feel this topic is a little confusing to both experienced, and inexperienced growers and maybe it's good to always point out that the notion of rizo growth on low nutes  is far from a rule.
But at the same time I read comments from all experience levels where this is the most matter of fact thing that low nutes=rizo and high nutes=tomentose. And for beginners this is damaging misinfo
who spend a lot of time and effort and money into tweaking with agar recipes to get 'desirable' growth thinking that this is a rule.

All I wanted to say was maybe we should have a disclaimer to this "rule" that we teach to each other so we learn more exact knowledge.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #24809659 - 11/27/17 12:36 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

You're the only one calling it a rule. I said lower notes often causes it. The keyword is often. You're the only person referencing it as a "matter of fact thing." And most importantly, I said that rhizo vs. tomentose doesn't really mean shit in the grand scheme of cultivation.


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OfflineTaderHoagie
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24809727 - 11/27/17 01:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've been meaning to ask about all the transfers and sectors. When do you start getting diminished returns? I dropped wedges after 1 transfer. The dish was fast and clean, but it wasn't a perfect ropey circle.

I don't know. All that transferring cuts into my main goal of drugs. Experiments can wait, but drugs can't.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24809736 - 11/27/17 01:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Really the only reason I'd prefer rhizo is 1) it looks better and 2) it allows for selecting the fastest growing mycelium. IME tomentose growth on agar has been very uniform, and I've just assumed tomentose growth had more to do with the density of substrains than nutrition, but I'm no expert and haven't done any real looking into the rhizo vs tomentose arguments. It's all seemed like a pissing contest.

Personally, I like my tomentose culture, it's very aggressive on agar at least. I inoculated oats with it 12 days ago and it's almost ready to spawn. Of course I have my master saved in the fridge.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24809739 - 11/27/17 01:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Mode flips would be gene expression changes due to environment.  Likely a complex set of conditions not just one.

A common set seems to be hitting zero nutrition 'barrier' and/or competition barrier. It will stop, flip, and build up a very thick fan structure. 


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TaderHoagie]
    #24809759 - 11/27/17 01:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TaderHoagie said:
I've been meaning to ask about all the transfers and sectors. When do you start getting diminished returns? I dropped wedges after 1 transfer. The dish was fast and clean, but it wasn't a perfect ropey circle.

I don't know. All that transferring cuts into my main goal of drugs. Experiments can wait, but drugs can't.



You should've done another transfer or 2 before putting it to grain to make sure you didn't have any bacteria hitching a ride.

As far as deminished returns, that's not something you have to really worry about unless you do a bunch of g2g, at least as far as I understand.


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OfflineTaderHoagie
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24809776 - 11/27/17 01:41 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

The plate was clean and almost colonized. No films of grease, and growth is looking good on all 6 jars. Pics coming when lazyness goes away. My goal was this: 3 drops of spores on 3 plates, transfer the fastest one to 3 plates, find the fastest of those plates, make sure it's clean, drop to grain. I'll do fancy shit when I take a clone.

I'm starving for shrooms too much.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TaderHoagie]
    #24809798 - 11/27/17 01:58 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Snazz said:
Mode flips would be gene expression changes due to environment.  Likely a complex set of conditions not just one.

A common set seems to be hitting zero nutrition 'barrier' and/or competition barrier. It will stop, flip, and build up a very thick fan structure. 



Ahh. Well I guess my 6 transfers to see some pretty rhizo were a bit ridiculous lol, like I've said previously, I need to start focusing more on growing and stop playing with agar all the time even though it's fun.

Quote:

TaderHoagie said:
The plate was clean and almost colonized. No films of grease, and growth is looking good on all 6 jars. Pics coming when lazyness goes away. My goal was this: 3 drops of spores on 3 plates, transfer the fastest one to 3 plates, find the fastest of those plates, make sure it's clean, drop to grain. I'll do fancy shit when I take a clone.

I'm starving for shrooms too much.



Can't wait to see some pics, what variety? Be careful about eating a bunch of shrooms when you start getting fruits. Your own will almost definitely be stronger than anything you've ever purchased, and it's too easy to trip too often when you have shrooms almost endlessly. I was where you are now when I grew my first shrooms about a year ago and I came close to losing my shit. The mind can be a fragile thing.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24809870 - 11/27/17 02:49 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
I said lower notes often causes it. The keyword is often.





I don't think you understood what I was trying to say. Do you see rizo growth on highly nutritious grain? Do you see it often?
Do you see my point now? I feel that your argument "lower nutes often causes it" is as valid as "high nutes often causes it"
seen from my perspective. I'm a student and scientist and so try to figure out why so many experienced and inexperienced
growers say that low nutes "often" cause rizo when I observe that HIGH nutes "often" cause rizo.

Im not trying to argue these are all real questions! So how much do you know about this phenomena?
Is the mycelium totally unpredictable or have you noticed a pattern when it comes to rizo and tomentose?

I'm here to learn and to question what doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not looking to argue and defend positions :smile:
Just hit me up with your current knowledge about this here or PM me if you think you can teach me something
about this I'm just looking to learn as I said. 

So Why do I often see rizo on high nutes when I should be seeing the opposite? :smile:


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