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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Leftfield420]
    #24774315 - 11/10/17 06:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I like to see a strong visual recovery in 24-36 hours. IME if you can't visually see it in that amount of time it will not recover at all.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24774451 - 11/10/17 07:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'm switching up my agar from MEA to PDA because potato flakes are way easier to get a hold of than malt extract for me locally. I keep finding recipes that are vastly different so I want to clarify before I make it, so here's the recipe I intend to use.
500ml water
9g agar powder
5g potato flakes
2 tsp honey

I know 20g/ml agar is pretty standard, I use a 500ml media bottle and 450ml is approx as much water as I can safely use so I cut back a bit on agar so it's not too stiff. I'm just curious about the potato flakes and especially honey, most recipes I've seen don't clearly state the amount of honey and I'm too anal about consistency in results to just wing it.


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Peace, pot and microdot!:mushroom2:
No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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OfflineMrcloudy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Steevo]
    #24774521 - 11/10/17 07:40 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Steevo said:
I posted this in Gourmet Cultivation yesterday but I'll drop it here too

Antlers are growing taller than the lid on the tub they're in. I need to get a martha setup but until then is it alright to trim them back a little (the first pic of course) or do they need to be harvested all in one shot?







If they have the energy you can cut them back a few inches and they will continue growing normally, if they are running low they may just quit, but they look good and healthy.


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10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.


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Invisibleherrenvolk


Registered: 05/14/16
Posts: 222
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24774535 - 11/10/17 07:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

00Burnout said:
I'm switching up my agar from MEA to PDA because potato flakes are way easier to get a hold of than malt extract for me locally. I keep finding recipes that are vastly different so I want to clarify before I make it, so here's the recipe I intend to use.
500ml water
9g agar powder
5g potato flakes
2 tsp honey

I know 20g/ml agar is pretty standard, I use a 500ml media bottle and 450ml is approx as much water as I can safely use so I cut back a bit on agar so it's not too stiff. I'm just curious about the potato flakes and especially honey, most recipes I've seen don't clearly state the amount of honey and I'm too anal about consistency in results to just wing it.




Sounds like too much honey too me. You don't need a lot of sugar.
My favorite PDA recipe is Munchauzen's 1-2-3 recipe.
1g corn syrup / honey
2g agar
3g potatoe flakes
1/2cup water
makes 8-10 plates.

Easy to remember, and works great. It's on the slightly higher nutrient side, and a tad soft. You can adjust accordingly if you'd like, but it works fine the way it is for me.


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OfflineTheBlackCat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #24774618 - 11/10/17 08:35 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mrcloudy said:
Quote:

Steevo said:
I posted this in Gourmet Cultivation yesterday but I'll drop it here too

Antlers are growing taller than the lid on the tub they're in. I need to get a martha setup but until then is it alright to trim them back a little (the first pic of course) or do they need to be harvested all in one shot?







If they have the energy you can cut them back a few inches and they will continue growing normally, if they are running low they may just quit, but they look good and healthy.





Good to know. Maybe I'll get another flush out of my 27qt of antlers.


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OfflineTheBlackCat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: herrenvolk]
    #24774626 - 11/10/17 08:37 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

herrenvolk said:
Quote:

00Burnout said:
I'm switching up my agar from MEA to PDA because potato flakes are way easier to get a hold of than malt extract for me locally. I keep finding recipes that are vastly different so I want to clarify before I make it, so here's the recipe I intend to use.
500ml water
9g agar powder
5g potato flakes
2 tsp honey

I know 20g/ml agar is pretty standard, I use a 500ml media bottle and 450ml is approx as much water as I can safely use so I cut back a bit on agar so it's not too stiff. I'm just curious about the potato flakes and especially honey, most recipes I've seen don't clearly state the amount of honey and I'm too anal about consistency in results to just wing it.




Sounds like too much honey too me. You don't need a lot of sugar.
My favorite PDA recipe is Munchauzen's 1-2-3 recipe.
1g corn syrup / honey
2g agar
3g potatoe flakes
1/2cup water
makes 8-10 plates.

Easy to remember, and works great. It's on the slightly higher nutrient side, and a tad soft. You can adjust accordingly if you'd like, but it works fine the way it is for me.





You shouldn't go above 10 g of sugars per half liter. I noticed most of Stamets recipes seem to use 20g of sugars per liter. I use barley malt syrup for my malt sugars in my MYPA which is sold at most supermarkets. Also nutritional yeast is easy to source. You can buy one bottle of peptone and have it last you forever.


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Edited by TheBlackCat (11/10/17 08:41 PM)


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Steevo]
    #24774633 - 11/10/17 08:41 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Steevo said:
I posted this in Gourmet Cultivation yesterday but I'll drop it here too

Antlers are growing taller than the lid on the tub they're in. I need to get a martha setup but until then is it alright to trim them back a little (the first pic of course) or do they need to be harvested all in one shot?






Can you turn the tub on end?


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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24774643 - 11/10/17 08:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

00Burnout said:
No, metabolites won't, the alleged bacteria causing the metabolic response will though. Anyone who's used knowingly bacterial spawn or cakes has seen this proven as bacteria will reduce yield and flushes because they mycelium is expending energy it could've used for fruiting to fight off the bacteria.



Show me where this was proven, tub in my sig was 4 pints and 1 pint with 10 uncolonized wet spot contam grain. Bacteria is a tiny variable compared to conditions even with very bad bacterial infection, cubes perform wonderfully in a more natural environment. You think there is no bacteria in cow shit. It only inhibits your success because it breeds out of control in still air conditions, I think of it like a yeast infection, we have yeast and many other fungi and bacteria on us naturally and you would only know it when they breed out of control and affect the organism negatively.


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MS Brazillian shoebox


AA+ MS shoebox


Edited by Hopeless_Hound (11/10/17 08:49 PM)


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24774676 - 11/10/17 09:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

There is also beneficial bacteria in cow shit. I'm just going off what I've read, been told, and observed. Bacteria on sterilized spawn is going to take hold a lot easier as there fewer organisms fighting for nutrients, while cow shit has many organisms competing for nutrients, forming symbiotic relationships with others, and some (like trichoderma) being parasitic.

Often times mycelium will overcome bacteria due to metabolic responses and vigor from ideal genetics, which is why usually you can still fruit bacterial shit (and it's desire to propagate and ensure it's species survival) but early onset of infection can cause stalling, anyone who's done a fair amount of reading on here has seen it happen to people.

You used 1 contaminated pint with 4 clean ones, this gave you better chances of the mycelium overcoming the bacteria, which it clearly did. I'm not saying that bacteria will indefinitely reduce potential yield and flushes 100% of the time, but if it's having to fight bacteria it's expending energy that could be used for fruiting instead and the extent of this expenditure will determine whether or not yield is impacted.

Again going off what I've read, heard, and observed, but I'm sure someone with much more experience would agree with most if not all of what I've said.


--------------------
Peace, pot and microdot!:mushroom2:
No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
Ghetto Greenhouse
Trade List
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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Registered: 08/21/17
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24774701 - 11/10/17 09:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

What I'm saying is that proper conditions are much more important, and I had 4 jars total, 1 being 90% colonized and heavily bacterial, but all jars were definitely a bit more than mildly bacterial, hell you can see very unhealthy looking growth right next to tons of pins, the unhealthy stuff died when I exposed my tub to full open air, the mycogone turned blue and shrunk down to more normal looking mycelium and the pins completely overtook it. And this is something called mycogone? I'm sure my tub would've been completely fucked with a surface permeated with blobs of the conditions hadn't changed, the mycelium needs to breath, it's like fair air is a healthy immune system for cubes and still air is compromised. Someone with aids exposed to the common cold might very well die, someone who is perfectly healthy will fight it off before it's identifiable, I believe cubes function on a similar basis. It appears the tub has overcome the bacteria and reverted to normal healthy growth in optimal conditions, there is no way bacteria affected this yield.
Note the unhealthy bluing bacterial(mycogone) blobs on the surface, they are almost non recognizable because as soon as they started to appear(coincidentally) the lid was removed altogether, cubes can breath, heavy yellowing and bluing occur and the felt like covering(if you've dealt with mycogone you know) transformed into a normal rubbery texture, i have no doubt that with a lid on my yield wouldn't have broken 1.5 Oz first flush, and that's wishful thinking, no lid growth exploded and the mycogone was... well... mycogone, yield 3.5 Oz dry roughly first flush. treat your babies like the living beings they are, they like air just as much as us but they have to breathe passively, I'm sure that is a huge factor for why so many monotubs with otherwise optimal conditions fail to produce. I'd love to see a very vigorous, clean, clone/isolate tested open air against a variety of different lid set ups, I'm sure it would yield useful insight.
you can see uneven pin set, and u healthy blobs being overtaken
Growth explodes as they can all breath, they even pin inside of the former mycogone blobs! Not just genetics because I fruited this same tub with a lid on/off varying degrees, same spore syringe. About as close to controlled as you can get with MS.


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MS Brazillian shoebox


AA+ MS shoebox


Edited by Hopeless_Hound (11/10/17 09:49 PM)


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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24774762 - 11/10/17 10:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

But don't worry don't take my word as bible, this is all hypothesis supported by results and observations. Further testing will be done with isolates/clones and different multi spore varieties. I think the most important thing to remember is cubes love to breathe, they act more like they would in nature, except this time we've rigged it In their favor, the best balance between man made innovation and natural observation will continually produce the most optimum yields. That's a statement I will stand by, if anyone cares to explain to me why I'm wrong I will gladly hear your opinions and have a healthy discussion about this.


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MS Brazillian shoebox


AA+ MS shoebox


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24774836 - 11/10/17 11:37 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Indeed proper conditions are most important, common sense dictates that if you provided optimal conditions to your mycelium it has an exponentially better chance of overcoming bacteria than if conditions favored bacteria. We're pretty much arguing the same points, I just didn't mention environmental conditions because I felt that was pretty obvious.

I'm curious to see how many flushes you get before it greens out. Often times on here I've seen bacterial tubs just go one and done. It is very evident that, in your case, the mycelium won. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you would've gotten a qp had the spawn been clean. There's no way to prove this because an isolate was not used.

Like I stated in my previous post, mycelium will overtake bacteria in a lot of cases, and of course conditions play a huge factor in this. Sorry I can't discuss in more depth per post, I'm at work atm.


--------------------
Peace, pot and microdot!:mushroom2:
No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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Trade List
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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24774869 - 11/11/17 12:02 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

See man I like you, I may have been a bit contentious but there is essentially nothing I disagree with here, I feel like we are on the same page(super high at the moment). And I'm willing to bet you 100$ that it doesn't green out, it looks better and better everyday, all of the grain picked from the shrooms was placed back on top of the sub and is all colonizing nicely, I would be very very surprised if any contam showed up at this point, the open air=100% functional immune response(my hypothesis) the grain, even tho completely exposed and ideally more digested and open to contam, has been completely recolonized in open air conditions, all aborts have died and new pins have sprouted everywhere, even the damaged surface. At this point I would honestly be shocked if it greened out. But as a man of my word you will be updated and if it does I am fulling willing to showcase my defeat in a direct message format.


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MS Brazillian shoebox


AA+ MS shoebox


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24774902 - 11/11/17 12:22 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Well if I could afford to lose $100 right now I'd make that bet lol. With hardy flushes like that it probably will green out simply because it will weaken over time and be more contaminate prone, happens to clean spawn too. Whether or not it happens before the 4th flush is finished is what will be more of a determining factor, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's spent before that point either, especially with a monsterous first flush like yours.

Your grow actually gave me hope on my tub I've got going (first time bulk, like I said what I know is based on what I've read or been told, my experience is too limited to have seen it first hand) because I'm fairly certain my spawn was bacterial to some extent. It's colonizing slow as fuck and if it's not fully colonized by day 10 I'll probably introduce fruiting, especially after seeing your results with fruiting after spawning.

Sadly I can't fruit in open air, I have cats and can picture walking in to find one of them taking a shit in it. Plus I work 2 jobs so I don't have time to manage an open air tub.


--------------------
Peace, pot and microdot!:mushroom2:
No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
    #24774917 - 11/11/17 12:30 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Bro I have 2 cats, they won't do more than sniff it, no paw dipping or Messing In general, and even if they did the substrate is fairly hardy, spawn is what contams, and that's much more likely in still air. I'm telling you. And also if you are only fairly certain of bacteria your still 2 steps ahead of me, my grow was definitely bacterial, all jars stalled but some reached 100% all very clearly bacterial, not disgusting like, they smelled fine but it was clear the growth was unnatural, the 4th however was heavily bacterial and stopped completely, I accidentally dumped the fully uncolonized wet spot grain in with my tub also and the tub still devoured the coir completely, the whole sub besides the casing applied at spawn was fully colonized in 3 day, I think this was because the coir was pressure cooked and at just right field capacity. Around that time open air was introduced, before that the lid was set ajar the tub.


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AA+ MS shoebox


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24774950 - 11/11/17 01:07 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

My cats are assholes, but when I have more than one tub going I'll try it with one just to see how much of assholes they are. One of them would definitely lay in it, he loves boxes and I frequently catch him laying on my sgfc, it's like wtf dude I want fresh air exchange not fresh hair exchange.

My jars fully colonized but they didn't seem right and smelled a little off. Not full blown sour, but it wasn't the typical mushroom/earthy smell I'm use to. It recovered nicely, but it's been 7 days going on 8 and it looks about the same as it did on day 4. I used Damion5050's coir tek so that might be the difference right there, your coir was definitely more cooked than mine.

Currently it doesn't smell bacterial, maybe most of my spawn is near the bottom. Last time I peaked at the bottom it was colonizing nicely, so maybe I'm just a little anxious. I have my tub sitting on buckets to keep it off the cold floor, and so I can view every side of it.

Man I could use a bowl right now, boiling out fryers is so mind numbingly dull.


--------------------
Peace, pot and microdot!:mushroom2:
No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout
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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Hopeless_Hound] * 2
    #24775005 - 11/11/17 02:05 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

block text is illegible


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: JHOVA]
    #24775116 - 11/11/17 04:38 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

@Hopeless_Hound & 00Burnout

Very polite and on topic discussion, this is how growers discuss matters! Cheers


Hey by the way, does anyone know exactly what is it that smells MUSHROOMY about mushrooms?
I mean sometimes a tiny bit of the culture will smell overwhelming and sometimes an entire
substrate surface or jar will not produce even a whim of a scent. Weird indeed.


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InvisibleGerms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
    #24775262 - 11/11/17 07:32 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
@Hopeless_Hound & 00Burnout

Very polite and on topic discussion, this is how growers discuss matters! Cheers


Hey by the way, does anyone know exactly what is it that smells MUSHROOMY about mushrooms?
I mean sometimes a tiny bit of the culture will smell overwhelming and sometimes an entire
substrate surface or jar will not produce even a whim of a scent. Weird indeed.



I have wondered this myself recently


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OfflineSteevo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24775311 - 11/11/17 07:55 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mrcloudy said:
Quote:

Steevo said:
I posted this in Gourmet Cultivation yesterday but I'll drop it here too

Antlers are growing taller than the lid on the tub they're in. I need to get a martha setup but until then is it alright to trim them back a little (the first pic of course) or do they need to be harvested all in one shot?







If they have the energy you can cut them back a few inches and they will continue growing normally, if they are running low they may just quit, but they look good and healthy.




Thanks for the feedback Mrcloudy


Quote:

Mycolorado said:

Can you turn the tub on end?




I possibly can but I have 3 bags, 1 jar and another small container in that tub as well so it might be a little tight because I’d have to rest it on one of the short sides to give it enough head room

For now I just rotated the lid 90 degrees to leave 1/2 the top open. We’ll see how it goes but so far so good


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