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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#24754594 - 11/02/17 01:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Now we're boiling broccoli?
The same science also says boiling can make other nutrition more available or unlocked. While vitamin C may be destroyed something else may be enhanced.
Im no fungal metabolism specialist so we don't know what they get out of it in the first place or what method may be most beneficial to them.
To correlate human needs with fungi is not only theory, its a bad start imo.
For example boiling the fuck out of barley water degrades proteins giving rise to free amino nitrogen. Boiling barley juice may make it less nutritional for humans But for beer yeast its a necessary step for proper fermentation
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24754604 - 11/02/17 01:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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A fair point, I find both supporting and un-supporting evidence depending on the material. However, given the same cook time, destroyed vs intact would be some indicator.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#24754609 - 11/02/17 01:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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No but grain is most assuredly a human food also. Boiling food seeps nutrients out of the food and into the water. Food of any kind. Sure, cooking food can unlock sealed in nutes, but the point remains that boiling anything in water will seep nutrients from it into the water.
How do you think grain water agar works? So obviously fungi enjoy the nutes that are being seeped into your water. How much is too much? No need to split hairs here man.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24754639 - 11/02/17 01:55 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea no shit......
He's not soaking or boiling anything theres no leftover water whisking away nutrients....
So again how do you assume a cooking method does better or worse for nutrition especially in terms of fungi metabolism
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24754641 - 11/02/17 01:57 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude you ninja edit your posts so often its hard to have an actual debate with you
Yeast is also a lower fungi. Higher fungi may require even more complex nutes that degradation would most likely make less available to them. Just a thought not a theory.
The device retains more nutes by not boiling the water in the same fashion as normal grain hydration. At least that is what I gathered from his post.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24754648 - 11/02/17 01:59 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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As far as grain nutrient retention goes, the best method would be the ratio method in which you put the required amount of water in your jars pre pressure cook. That way no water is washing away your nutes. But I don't really think the difference matters that much.
I just don't see a reason to say you are wrong when obviously normally boiling your grains will wash away useful nutes
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24754724 - 11/02/17 02:43 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Show me where i said someone was wrong. I wanted clarification on things that were stated as "i know" when its really "i think"
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TheBlackCat
Possibly Human



Registered: 10/05/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] 2
#24754726 - 11/02/17 02:44 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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So we are talking about retention. Shouldn't we be talking about nutrients breaking down or changing due to heat? Nothing is ever truly lost in this scenario just changed. Unless you have discovered how to make a portal from your cooker to the 9th circle of hell I'd say everything is still in there same as it ever was.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#24754736 - 11/02/17 02:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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IMO people overthink the nutrition in growiñg mushrooms
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheBlackCat]
#24754740 - 11/02/17 02:49 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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BC, when you boil grains to hydrate them, nutes are seeped into your boil water, which you proceed to dump down the drain.
The point that was being made is that those nutes aren't lost because this device doesn't boil grains like that. Uses less water so on and so forth. At least that is what I gathered from the original convo plus his link.
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Steevo
Just a cog in the death wheel



Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 2,702
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#24754758 - 11/02/17 02:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: IMO people overthink the nutrition in growiñg mushrooms
Couldn't have said it better myself cron
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheBlackCat]
#24754778 - 11/02/17 03:04 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheBlackCat said: So we are talking about retention. Shouldn't we be talking about nutrients breaking down or changing due to heat? Nothing is ever truly lost in this scenario just changed. Unless you have discovered how to make a portal from your cooker to the 9th circle of hell I'd say everything is still in there same as it ever was.
Thats what I'm trying to get at but it seems over the heads. Seems too that challenging people on their theories is considered mean these days.
So the package and manual says more nutrition is retained... Fungi make a lot of their own vitamins so who's to say boiled grains may not me more nutritional active to fungi. The peanut gallery white Knight squad shows and talks about the grain water runoff which wasn't even a part of what was being talked about lol. Since theres no grain water to dump out.
I don't really know either way. But if someone says they know for a fact im going to ask them to explain. And try to poke holes in their reasoning. Thats called "how the world gets places"
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#24754789 - 11/02/17 03:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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With fungi more nutrition is not the best answer and we use more nutrtion then we can handle indoors.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#24754795 - 11/02/17 03:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Forensics and symbolic logic should be mandatory in school.
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insanemike
Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#24754888 - 11/02/17 03:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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You bring up some really good points, bodh. Theories need to be tested. Anyone have a proven isolate and are willing to run a few tests? No prep vs standard prep grain and its affect on yield.
Edited by insanemike (11/02/17 03:49 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: insanemike]
#24754906 - 11/02/17 03:58 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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How would you suggest this test? For the most part we are lucky to get a few flushes before mold sets in yet toss it outside and these things still pop fruits so unless the diff was drastic enough to show change within tbe first two flushes i think it would be hard to spot any diff...i think violets method of growing or mudas bottle tek might work but would be hard to say.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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insanemike
Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cronicr]
#24754943 - 11/02/17 04:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well. That would be part of the test, wouldn't it? Why does mold set in after a few flushes? Just the end of its life cycle or is it due to a lack of nutrients, or both?
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TheBlackCat
Possibly Human



Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 2,819
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: insanemike]
#24754973 - 11/02/17 04:29 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fuck logic and free thinking shit man. The interwebs and product packaging is truth. Ok so you want to worry about lost nutrition. Just soak your grain overnight and boil long enough to get it hot so the water steams off. Problem solved. Fuck if you want you can even throw a bit of fresh brewed coffee into your soak. Good luck getting the amount of grain I need into a standard microwave. It looks like something fun to toy with if you are just growing small.
There is some basis in nutrition in mushroom cultivation. Some things like cordyceps need a special nutrient broth to replicate their very specific natural conditions. But cubes are easy. I bet I could dump a jar of grain on top of a wet pile of clothes and get cubes. Well cubes and mold. Sterilize that laundry bitch.
But I do take some very basic steps when it comes to my cubes. Overnight coffee grain soak, and a coir, gypsum and coop poop substrate. Coffee is the devil if you don't pasteurize it properly. Either than that there isn't too much else to it.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: insanemike]
#24754983 - 11/02/17 04:32 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is due to us creating unnatural growing conditions. We eliminate beneficial organisms along with the bad ones. We make it far to easy for mold to get a foot hold.
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00Burnout
That one guy



Registered: 05/02/16
Posts: 2,186
Loc: Ozarks
Last seen: 6 months, 21 days
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Has anyone tried just mixing a bunch of cow shit and dirt in a pot and dropping spores in it, or digging up around a patty and nocing it up? Why not try to replicate nature entirely, or even go as far as using an lc that replicates as close as possible to the digestive process as cows have including intestinal flora to inoculate said mixture?
I'm kinda drunk so I'm probably spitting bullshit, but it would be an expirement for sure and definitely not one I have the experience or knowledge to tackle. Hell for all I know accurately replicating nature could produce a mold spore load large enough to make future cultivation impossible for a long time.
Just a drunk noob with food for thoughts...maybe?
-------------------- Peace, pot and microdot! No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout Ghetto Greenhouse Trade List https://psychedelia.space
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